TK 0 Report post Posted December 29, 2005 I have some list of the liquid...but no where to be seen around my laptop... he he he he he... Pieter, Runway 36L...super...good for all airliner. I miss AMS. I remember, the one in FRA we had a green colour liquid...in CDG...yellow!! If a cold soak airplane, first they will spray HOT water to clear the ice and snow.....then the 40%/60% mixture. good stuff...passenger really enjoy looking out their window...i did!! First time de-icing procedure in a clear day. Normally, we can see the snow coming down...well, it was snowing at the terminal, but during de-ice..not an ice drop. even during take off...thats shows how big an airport is... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Imran K. 0 Report post Posted December 29, 2005 Believe it or not...but GAMCO Abu Dhabi has a de-icing machine as well... What are the chances of snow falling in this dustbowl?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teoh Z Yao 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2005 Wow wow wow... Great info and pictures TK! Eye-opening to see how de-icing takes place! Thanks for those wonderful posts, TK! ;-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandeep G 1 Report post Posted December 30, 2005 Very good pics TK! This is truly a very rewarding and educational thread! Thank you for sharing this info! Can't wait for the next installment Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mohd Idham 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2005 Very good pics TK! This is truly a very rewarding and educational thread! Thank you for sharing this info! Can't wait for the next installment 22249[/snapback] Yes, agree... TK, can you explain more about Jet Stream.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kandiah k 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2005 Nice shots in CDG TK !!!!!!!!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Edwin Yii 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2005 jet stream, narrow, swift currents or tubes of air found at heights ranging from 7 to 8 mi (11.3–12.9 km) above the surface of the earth. They are caused by great temperature differences between adjacent air masses. There are four major jet streams. Although discontinuous at some points, they circle the globe at middle and polar latitudes, both in each hemisphere. The mean position of the stream in the Northern Hemisphere is between lat. 20 and 50 degrees N; the polar stream is between lat 30 and 70 degrees N. Wind speeds average 35 mi (56.3 km) per hr in summer and 75 mi (120.7 km) per hr in winter, although speeds as high as 200 mi (321.9 km) per hr have been recorded. Instead of moving along a straight line, the jet stream flows in a wavelike fashion; the waves propagate eastward (in the Northern Hemisphere) at speeds considerably slower than the wind speed itself. Since the progress of an airplane is aided or impeded depending on whether tail winds or head winds are encountered, in the Northern Hemisphere the jet stream is sought by eastbound aircraft, in order to gain speed and save fuel, and avoided by westbound aircraft. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Norman 1 Report post Posted December 30, 2005 Believe it or not...but GAMCO Abu Dhabi has a de-icing machine as well... What are the chances of snow falling in this dustbowl?! 22214[/snapback] Hehehe... about to ask you what kind of de-icing business you want to do in Dubai from your earlier post BUT it seems somebody already beaten you to it....ahak..ahak.. How about "taxi-thru-plane-wash"?? You'll get good business, especially from KLM... TK... thanks again Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Radzi 2 Report post Posted December 30, 2005 Believe it or not...but GAMCO Abu Dhabi has a de-icing machine as well... What are the chances of snow falling in this dustbowl?! 22214[/snapback] It's for the day after tomorrow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Azman MN 1 Report post Posted December 30, 2005 Tk, very interesting! One question - I was watching the action in ZRH a few days ago and noticed that almost all the heavies required de-icing but almost none of the 737s or babybus needed de-icing. Why? You mentioned something about the ice being dangerous as it may affect the lift... does this mean that for smaller aircraft, they have more runway length to play with so ice is not a problem? Btw, Heliconia was in ZRH this week, and de-ice gave it this interesing blue with orange glow... Thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T Azahan 1 Report post Posted December 30, 2005 good one TK. it seems that the deicing process is so efficient. so many stations ready for many aircraft simultaneously. thank god we dont have snow in malaysia. if we had, sure long queue one at klia. may be 2 counters available out of 10. just kidding mr MAB. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Walter Sim 1 Report post Posted December 30, 2005 fantastic TK! Deicing looks cool, cant wait for hte next installment! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TK 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2005 Azman, Maybe for the wide bodies, the airplane arrived early morning and has been idle then. So it might iced up the wing. As for the small ones, in and out with short transit and assuming no snow and rain so doesn't need it. But i notice, every morning at ZRH, i see they de-ice their plane at the bay.Same goes with Frankfurt before the Baby Bus and Baby Boeing start their multiple hop. It also depends on the Captain of the flight, with the advice from ground engineer to either de-ice or not. For us from Malaysia, we normally ask the ground engineer and also visually inspect the wing from the cabin. Like what i did, so i told Captain that we need one. Sometimes, there's no snow...but with the humidity level during the cold soak winter, the water on the wing will freeze up became clear ice...that's dangerous...you cannot see the ice on the wing. But a thin shining water can be seen sometimes...so its a clear ice. Next thing...De-icing procedure. Aircraft will have normal engine start..while taxi, delay the take off flaps. Once de-icing completed, then we will select the flaps for take off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Walter Sim 1 Report post Posted December 30, 2005 what about the deice functions in the aircraft? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TK 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2005 de-ice function in an aircraft...? You mean Engine anti ice and wing anti ice...?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Walter Sim 1 Report post Posted December 30, 2005 yeah those.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Min Chun 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2005 Only using when crusing in the high sky? 30k++ feet? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TK 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2005 On the 25 Dec 05, i did a flight to Paris CDG. Here are the flight plan. The route, weight and speed of take off out from KUL. I hope this will help you guys. I know some may have some questions, i try to help you guys out after i come back from another trip. To FS Fanatics out there...try this 13:26 hours flight.... Passenger as i wrote PAX 99 = 12/86 = 98 plus one infant = 99. Look at EET..13:26, that is the flight time. TOW 273,049Kg Selected temperature for the assume take off thrust 42 degree celcius and the V speeds for our take off. Fuel for the flight.. On the right, there is ZFW 1690 = 169,000KG then i wrote 167.0 thats an estimate, what we had was Actual ZFW before the aircraft push back was 167,049 which i wrote down above in the flight plan under ZF.. What keeps Pilots awake besides radio call, we check our position report on the flight plan againts the Progress Page. Timing we cross a waypoint.. example: URKOK on top of page.. then what's written by me.. wind 244/60 = 244 degrees at 60 knots againts flight plan predicted forecast wind which is 240/44, so actual wind was stronger head wind!!! 18:14..crossing time in UTC againts 18:17 first calculated after airborne, so meaning i was 3 minutes ahead of flight plan time crossing "URKOK" 82.6 is the position Fuel in Tanks, againts flight plan calculated fuel at URKOK which is 81.5, the difference is 1.1 = 1100Kg..meaning we saved fuel that much already. On the right end, i wrote 400 = 400Kg, meaning i have 400 Kg extra after take off since we took off with 700Kg extra in tanks then compare position fuel i have 1100kg as above, so the difference is 400Kg. 0456/13.7 is ETA CDG at 04:56 UTC and 13.7 = 13,700kg fuel is the estimate fuel once we touch down. Hope you enjoyed the flight....it never ends. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pieter C. 5 Report post Posted December 30, 2005 TK, Really appreciate your explanations again; VERY educative 99 pax only ?? hhhhmmmmmm, very light load (good for ZED ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Walter Sim 1 Report post Posted December 30, 2005 no wonder MH's in the red.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seth K 3 Report post Posted December 30, 2005 no wonder MH's in the red.. 22459[/snapback] 86 paasenger occupied during that flight out of 200+ seats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wonder how the load from CDG back to KUL The passegers got to enjoy that flight so much, I would love to be in that flight too Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ricky Tiong 0 Report post Posted December 30, 2005 Many thanks TK for the great insight of everything really. I do enjoy your de-icing 'tour'. The most recent experience for me regarding de-icing process was in Beijing, China in December 2004. One thing is for sure when it comes to China, lots and lots of manpower. I was looking out the window and saw a bunch of people with brooms sweeping the tarmac! I was enjoying myself until the de-icing stuff covered my beautiful view. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TK 0 Report post Posted December 31, 2005 99 pax is normal on Christmas.... every other airline will be in the red during christmas, trust me. Not just MAS. CDG-KUL....packed like sardines. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T Azahan 1 Report post Posted December 31, 2005 so i guess if we want to have a good Y -Class flight to CDG as far as passenger point of view, we fly during christtmas time. i can have all the 5 middle seats by myself. good snoring sleep. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Attan 0 Report post Posted December 31, 2005 Thanks again, TK. Look forward to more lessons from you. BTW, are these things taught as you fly with the captains or covered in the type conversion sessions? Happy New Year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
