Qantas and Emirates global partnership now official

[alberttky 0]

That's right. Aircraft performance depends on a few factors - e.g. airport elevation, ambient temperature, weight, runway length, route, weather, MEL, etc.

[S V Choong 4]

Yes but i suppose you aren't aware that on certain days, those flights you mentioned are weight restricted too depends on the tailwind/headwind??, flight path, season etc (our pilot friends here can perhaps shed some lights on this). And not to forget that DXB is a very hot place especially between March-November. That is going to have an impact on the aircraft performance too.

 

Even though these airlines are operating a particular route pair year-round, it doesn't mean the flight isn't weight restricted. I mean, EK operates DXB-LAX year-round too with a 77W and last time when a topic on this came up on A.net, EK apparently has to offload quite a few cargo and block off around 40-50 seats in Y sometimes so to fly nonstop between DXB/LAX. CX's flights between HKG/JFK are sometimes weight restricted too.

 

And as i said in my post earlier, i read this on A.net and quite a few of those regular posters there are working in this field, thus they know what they are talking about

Perhaps this is the reason why Qantas does not see the 77W as a direct replacement of 744 yet? Their 744 will probably for a wee while longer, certainly with their 747-400ERs

[Sandeep G 1]

I wonder if Mr Tim Clark and gang have finally had a look at their order book and the viability of their long-term growth and realised "Crap.. what are we gonna do with ALL these new aircraft coming in?"

 

At the same time, Mr Alan Joyce and gang have been banging their heads against desks/walls and floors wondering why they or previous management never had hindsight to order new generation aircraft (primarily the 777) that would have led to sustainability in these cruch times.

 

Then like a lightbulb over the Grinches head in Dr Seus' classic - the two decided that "Global Partnership" would be the key and that Qantas could save some Moolah and time by 'delaying' remaining A380s & 'cancelling' 35 firm orders for 787-9s [still a paper airplane] and work together with Emirates - who already have production slots on the A380 and numerous production slots on 77W airframes plus A350s.

 

I.e. I wonder if QANTAS would lease EMIRATES aircraft fresh off the production line to give an immediate boost to their international operations with appropriately sized and economically competitive aircraft, as well as a win in a rolling financial lease that would limit QANTAS' negative gearing??

 

Food for thought.

[Johan Z 0]

Malaysia Airlines, the likely winner of the Qantas/Emirates agreement

 

 

BANGKOK-The announcement of the Qantas/Emirates partnership and the termination of the joint business operation on the strategic “Kangaroo route” (UK-Australia) between British Airways and Qantas is likely to make one airline happy: Malaysia Airlines. The Malaysian national carrier has already been well positioned to capture traffic from London to Australia and New Zealand. The airline flies twice daily of London, including one daily frequency conducted in its brand new Airbus A380. The A380 flight was launched in June but upgraded to a daily frequency two weeks ago. In Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Airlines proposes up to eight daily connections to Australia and Auckland, New Zealand.

 

Connections via Kuala Lumpur will become even more attractive from November 26, Malaysia Airlines will start daily 'A380 all the way' flights between Sydney and London via Kuala Lumpur from November 25 when MAS will also run its Airbus 380 on flights MH122/123 to Sydney. Connections on the Kangaroo Route is likely to gain significance following MAS official integration to Oneworld before the end of the year. MAS will then look like the most suitable partner to replace Qantas in Singapore for British Airways. It might even pave the way for BA to reconsider a reopening of its operations to Kuala Lumpur, a destination it used to fly until the late nineties. The airline could first set up a code-share with MAS before being physically present again in the Malaysian capital.

 

Ironically Qantas possible replacement by MAS for British Airways was fostered by the Australian carrier which sponsored the candidacy of Malaysia Airlines into Oneworld global alliance.

 

Malaysia's First A380 Touches Down in KL International Airport on May 30,30 May 2012. The airline has an order for six Airbus A380 offering a configuration of 494 seats comprising 8 First Class and 350 Economy Class seats on the main deck and 66 Business Class and 70 Economy Class seats on the upper deck.

 

Source: http://www.traveldai...e-likely-winner

MH being MAS, it's hard to say..

Edited September 11, 2012 by Johan Z

[S V Choong 4]

MH being MAS, it's hard to say..

 

Yes you have hit the nail in the head really hard. There is always something that bogs them down. Either politics or poor management.

[BC Tam 2]

Frankly, that article seem no more than a syok sendiri piece in my opinion

What advantage can MH expect to draw from the QF/EK arrangement ? The return of BA on Malaysian soil ? To partake a share of the LHR-KUL vv pie that MH now has a monopoly on ?

[Johan Z 0]

I think a JV between BA and MH will be enough, like KLM Royal Dutch to Australia. Saying that, will KLM be happy?

KUL is low-yield destination for a premium heavy airline like BA.

[S V Choong 4]

Frankly, that article seem no more than a syok sendiri piece in my opinion

What advantage can MH expect to draw from the QF/EK arrangement ? The return of BA on Malaysian soil ? To partake a share of the LHR-KUL vv pie that MH now has a monopoly on ?

 

Hehe.. exactly what I thought, but with the pro-MH climate here, I better not say otherwise. I frankly cannot see why they can benefit from this arrangement.

[Azman MN 1]

Yeah, sounds like syok sendiri.

 

"The Malaysian national carrier has already been well positioned to capture traffic from London to Australia and New Zealand."

 

If they can "RE- capture" a small amount of what they lost in the first place, I would be very happy. But it would be a small miracle...

[BC Tam 2]

Nothing like a bit of statistical comparison for illustration

 

The Malaysian national carrier has already been well positioned to capture traffic from London to Australia and New Zealand. The airline flies twice daily of London, including one daily frequency conducted in its brand new Airbus A380. The A380 flight was launched in June but upgraded to a daily frequency two weeks ago. In Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Airlines proposes up to eight daily connections to Australia and Auckland, New Zealand.

 

*Combined Emirates and QANTAS flights on Dubai – London Heathrow will be 7 daily, all using Airbus A380. On Australia – Dubai sector, combined service sees 98 weekly flights (14 daily)

 

I do hope Tim Clark and Alan Joyce are not in habit of browsing the web for these sort of online 'aviation' related articles

Would be rather undignified of such corporate leaders to be found rolling about in hysterics

Edited September 11, 2012 by BC Tam

[amanairways 0]

australia to europe , 14 x a day by emirates , 8 x daily by MH , probably similar by SQ , CX , EY , qatar , BA , ....... thats a lot of aussies fleeing australia on a daily basis .... or they booting the refugees out ( at least those who dont even qualify for nauru ) ....

[Mike P 0]

australia to europe , 14 x a day by emirates , 8 x daily by MH , probably similar by SQ , CX , EY , qatar , BA , ....... thats a lot of aussies fleeing australia on a daily basis .... or they booting the refugees out ( at least those who dont even qualify for nauru ) ....

 

not just merely aussie, but people around the globe going to australia via transit.

[flee 5]

More details emerge:

http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/as-details-emerge-emirates-qantas-partnership-could-have-global-reach-qantas-adjusts-partners-82416

[Ja Singh 2]

With the termination of the joint business agreement between British Airways and Qantas following the new alliance of the Australian carrier with Emirates, Malaysia Airlines is likely to fill up the empty seat on the Kangaroo route for British Airways. With better possibilities for the British carrier to be back in Kuala Lumpur...

 

 

BANGKOK-The announcement of the Qantas/Emirates partnership and the termination of the joint business operation on the strategic “Kangaroo route” (UK-Australia) between British Airways and Qantas is likely to make one airline happy: Malaysia Airlines. The Malaysian national carrier has already been well positioned to capture traffic from London to Australia and New Zealand. The airline flies twice daily of London, including one daily frequency conducted in its brand new Airbus A380. The A380 flight was launched in June but upgraded to a daily frequency two weeks ago. In Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Airlines proposes up to eight daily connections to Australia and Auckland, New Zealand.

 

Connections via Kuala Lumpur will become even more attractive from November 26, Malaysia Airlines will start daily 'A380 all the way' flights between Sydney and London via Kuala Lumpur from November 25 when MAS will also run its Airbus 380 on flights MH122/123 to Sydney. Connections on the Kangaroo Route is likely to gain significance following MAS official integration to Oneworld before the end of the year. MAS will then look like the most suitable partner to replace Qantas in Singapore for British Airways. It might even pave the way for BA to reconsider a reopening of its operations to Kuala Lumpur, a destination it used to fly until the late nineties. The airline could first set up a code-share with MAS before being physically present again in the Malaysian capital.

 

Ironically Qantas possible replacement by MAS for British Airways was fostered by the Australian carrier which sponsored the candidacy of Malaysia Airlines into Oneworld global alliance.

 

Malaysia's First A380 Touches Down in KL International Airport on May 30,30 May 2012. The airline has an order for six Airbus A380 offering a configuration of 494 seats comprising 8 First Class and 350 Economy Class seats on the main deck and 66 Business Class and 70 Economy Class seats on the upper deck.

 

Table: Connection in October 2012 for Malaysia Airlines from London LHR to Australia and New Zealand

 

Adelaide

Daily except 1

22:00- 07:10

MH1-MH139

Auckland

1-3-4

2-5-7

12:00- 23:45

22:00-11:45

MH3-MH133

MH1-MH131

Brisbane

2-4-5-6-7

12:00-19:45

MH3-MH135

Melbourne

Daily

Daily

12:00-21:10

22:00-08:05

MH3-MH129

MH1-MH149

Perth

Daily

3-5-6

12:00-15:00

22:00-00:15

MH3-MH125

MH1-MH127

Sydney

Daily

Daily

12:00-19:50

22:00-09:00

MH3-MH141

MH1-MH123

[KK Lee 5]

MH A380 depart LHR for KUL in the morning not at more popular evening departure. Unless MH can improve working relationship with BA, BA is more likely to work with CX.

[kingkong 0]

This Emirates/Qantas deal will only benefit MAS on the possibility of JV with BA for the Kangaroo route only if MAS mount additional capacity into Australian cities. By end of this year the 744 is gone and it is unlikely 777 will be used for all Australian cities. The next best aircraft would be the new A330 for the KUL-Australian services.

 

MAS London A380 can go double daily if there is enough capacityfrom KUL onwards for the kangaroo route. Otherwise, it will be another big humoungous white elephant especially the MH4/1 flights on the KUL-LHR-KUL sector. It is already white by the way, just need to re-attach the trunk. :-)

[kandiah k 0]

I think BA is already working with QR on a bigger scale and prbably pushing for QR to join OW soonest possible. SIN will still be an important destination for them as much as SYD. They can and will still connect to other QF flights out of SIN to ADL, PER, MEL, BNE and etc. Unless of course they see a very attractive package offered by MH and KUL, sadly, I doubt BA might restart KUL after ditching it for QF a decade ago. Who knows ?

[xtemujin 0]

COMMENT: Emirates and Qantas deal a lesson in humility.

Posted 10 September 2012 Monday

 

Analyst Saj Ahmad looks at the deal between Emirates and Qantas, decides who are the winners and losers and gives his personal take on the old adage of he who laughs last, laughs longest.

 

 

In announcing their new partnership, behind the smiles, investors at Qantas will be wondering a few things.

 

First question is "why do this deal now" and secondly, in aligning itself with the biggest and fastest growing airline in the world, why did Qantas not solidify its earlier codeshare deal with Etihad?

 

Whichever way you look at this wide-ranging deal between the Dubai-based leviathan and the Kangaroo airline that is struggling to stand, let alone hop, Emirates has come out on top.

 

Not only will it be able to plunder, and at will, the key leisure and high yield business traffic from the likes of Melbourne and Sydney away from Singapore, Hong Kong and other Asian cities directly to Dubai, it has also in that same swoop utterly damaged the business case for Jetstar to launch services to Europe too.

 

Qantas has for years been surviving on a blend of good luck and Jetstar keeping it afloat. Qantas' share price, like its traffic yields have been on a perennial if not terminal decline. The pact with Emirates will not stop that. It may even make it worse, especially once customers who have not flown with the Arab airline get to see just how far apart the two are in terms of product, quality, value for money and crucially - the network to the world via the one-stop hub in Dubai through Emirates' dedicated Terminal 3 building. Certainly from my experience, it is the best airport terminal in the world to not just fly to, but also transit through.

 

But let us not gloss over this pact as being a deal of divinity.

 

Even before Qantas' current CEO Alan Joyce took up the reins, the Australian carrier has been one of many that had criticised Emirates and other Arab airlines with a slew of allegations and falsehoods that were never once substantiated.

 

Perhaps Mr Joyce and Qantas will now be pleased that their fleet of A380s will get "free" or subsidised fuel at Dubai International Airport, as they claimed Emirates does.

Or perhaps it's the discounted or nil-rate landing fees that compelled him to sign up with the proverbial "enemy"?

 

Whatever the reasons, what is crystal clear is not just the sheer hypocrisy and idiocy of Qantas' huge u-turn in embracing a foe as its ally, but crucially, this deal does nothing that bolsters their financial position vis a vis the strength that Emirates gains. This is nothing short of capitulation by the Aussie airline and they should hang their heads in shame - not because they had no choice but to do this deal, but because of the incessant lies they uttered against Emirates.

 

Emirates has indeed grown and succeeded as a result of Dubai and UAE Governmental policies.

 

In free market economics, Emirates has demonstrated to good effect how to make the most of open skies deals, the best way to utilise Government backed airport infrastructure to pull in traffic from across the globe and also invest heavily in swathes of Airbus A380s, A350s and Boeing 777s to keep its fleet young, efficient and attractive while being able to leverage their performance envelope to open up new markets.

 

And what has Qantas done?

 

It has spent more time bad-mouthing Arab airlines, spent countless sums of money lobbying the Australian Government to curb and reduce competition, particularly in the direction of Singapore Airlines, that has long sought to open up services across the Pacific, than it has looking at its failed business model.

 

And to top it off, it has cancelled 35 Boeing 787-9s. An airplane that will enter service by the spring of 2014 and would have helped Qantas to not only decrease its fuel bills and open up new markets, it would have allowed the retirement of the gas guzzling 767s and A330s that the airline operates.

 

So as it is, Qantas is stuck with just 12 A380s for its international services while its 747-400 is phased out. Not exactly a smart move when you consider the frenetic rate at which Emirates is inducting A380s and 777-300ERs. Qantas' cancellation of the 787-9s is bizarre - reckless even. And this short-sightedness will come back to haunt them, Even if they wanted to revive those orders tomorrow, those 35 787-9 slots have all been taken.

 

Considering the words that Qantas has in the past used against Boeing for delays to the 787, they could have simply deferred the deliveries instead of cancelling them - but in the end, Qantas is strapped for cash and terminated the order to get its deposits back to help keep its loss making international business alive.

 

Emirates has shown Qantas how to do things the hard way. Had Qantas management been smart enough to see the relentless growth that Arab airlines have, they would have perhaps avoided confrontation a decade ago and partnered up with these carriers instead of running their mouths off about subsidies and other such nonsense.

 

But no, verbatim is easier to spew than it is to deal with reckless unions and elements of an airline unhappy at structural change - so the outdated model remained along with the status quo while Emirates beefed up its presence in the Australian market at the expense of Qantas' ineptitude and hopeless dithering.

 

As it is, a weakened Qantas has come with its begging bowl to Emirates. Emirates bosses must be ecstatic at the pitiful ease with which they have effectively forced Qantas into this deal.

 

And the third party left wounded by this, British Airways, is now forced to look to an uncertain future and how it will serve Australia profitably.

 

While the termination of the "Kangaroo-Route" between British Airways and Qantas will not necessarily lead to the demise of the oneworld alliance, there is little evidence to suggest that Qantas' pact with Emirates will ever get the Arab airline closer to joining.

 

Clearly, if British Airways were smart, they should also look to partner with Emirates too.

 

Media reports of British Airways entertaining Qatar Airways sound desperate. Not just because Etihad is aligned with Virgin Australia and Emirates with Qantas - but Qatar Airways has little need to entertain the UK flag carrier, which is mired in trying to establish the much vaunted synergies between itself and a poorly performing Iberia.

Qatar Airways can indeed call the shots here if British Airways comes knocking. They do not "need" the headache that British Airways brings.

 

British Airways has many options it can bring to fruition. The easiest one would be to work with Qantas and Emirates via Dubai and strengthen the proposition all three airlines have while giving some potency to the oneworld alliance in contrast to the Star Alliance and Skyteam Alliance for connections between the northern and southern hemispheres.

 

If British Airways is serious about not wanting to become an embarrassment in the way that Qantas has become, it will need to do something.

 

And soon.

 

Qantas has been given a very harsh lesson in competition by Emirates. British Airways and every other critic of Arab airlines should shut up, sit up and take note.

 

http://www.arabianae...-humility-.html

Edited September 24, 2012 by xtemujin

[BC Tam 2]

A harsh take on reality

I guess I was looking for clues on how MH and KUL are to be the biggest gainers in this QF/EK deal as posted earler - alas no mention whatsoever of either

[nrazmoor 0]

A harsh take on reality

I guess I was looking for clues on how MH and KUL are to be the biggest gainers in this QF/EK deal as posted earler - alas no mention whatsoever of either

 

MH will only benfits if BA form a new partnership with them for the kanggaroo routes... Im not sure what is good for MH left in joining Onewold if rumors confirm BA partnership with QR. A wise decision a year a go might looks obselete these days. If im not mistaken MH will announce their final date in joining Oneworld by end of this month. If there are something concret betwen MH and BA they definately will announce it by then.. will be interesting to see where MH go from there

 

cheers!

[BC Tam 2]

Don't despair, yet

Can still do a tri-party arrangement - BA metal to DOH, QR metal to KUL and MH metal to Australia and beyond

(come to think of it, if they do come up with that, one should despair )

[Josh T 0]

I know that I am only voicing my opinion as a keyboard warrior, but MH can still make a lot of gains with their entry into OneWorld. By aggressively courting BA with a similar arrangement that QF have made with EK, they can provide a one-stop access to South-East Asia and to all the major Australian cities and Auckland. All it takes will be a simply code-share if they don't want to send their own metal to KUL. MH can also provide one-stop access to the subcontinent for QF and have these services established before Air India start their non-stop services to Australia when they get their B787s next year.

MH will gain access to a lot of secondary European cities via BA and to secondary cities in Australia via QF.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Josh T

[S V Choong 4]

Rivals take aim at Qantas deal

 

 

VIRGIN Australia says the planned alliance between Qantas and Emirates will make it harder for competitors to challenge the dominance of Australia's largest airline on key routes.

 

Singapore Airlines and Air New Zealand have joined their alliance partner, Virgin, in urging the competition regulator to block the granting of interim approval for the Qantas-Emirates tie-up.

 

In a submission to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, Virgin has questioned whether the benefits to travellers from the deal will outweigh the ''competitive detriment'' on international routes.

 

''Given the number of overlapping routes and the respective market shares [of the two airlines] on those routes, there can be no question that there will be an impact on competition,'' Virgin said. ''In addition, by entrenching Qantas' market position, the proposed conduct will likely have significant effects within the domestic Australian market.''

Advertisement

 

Despite the opposition from some quarters, the Department of Infrastructure and Transport has given its support to Qantas and Emirates gaining interim authorisation from the competition regulator.

 

Qantas has warned that it will retreat to a ''virtual network rather than an operating network'' if the ACCC does not approve its alliance with Emirates on routes to Europe, North Africa, the Middle East, Asia and New Zealand.

 

Qantas and Emirates want interim authorisation to begin planning for the alliance, including information sharing on marketing campaigns and the transition of IT systems.

 

But Virgin said the airlines had not substantiated in their initial application to the ACCC why interim approval would result in public benefits. ''The reality is that Qantas remains the dominant carrier for travel to and from, and within, Australia,'' it said.

 

''Virgin Australia considers that, by combining the strength and market penetration of Qantas and Emirates, the proposed conduct will make it more difficult for competitors to challenge Qantas' existing position, not only for international travel, but within Australia.''

 

Singapore Airlines said the alliance was a ''significant transaction in the airline industry'' and there were ''high risks involved in granting'' interim approval.

 

Air New Zealand took a slightly softer line but still had the view that ''it is not appropriate to grant interim authorisation''.

 

Apart from the ACCC, Qantas and Emirates is likely to need approval from the New Zealand Commerce Commission for their plans to code-share on flights across the Tasman.

 

 

Read more: http://www.theage.co...l#ixzz27R4Ykbrc

Edited September 25, 2012 by S V Choong

[Mohd Azizul Ramli 2]

Some updates on the partnership. However, no news heard about what MH is planning with BA to take advantage of the situation.

 

QANTAS starting 31MAR13 is reducing codeshare operations with British Airways, as part of its on-going preparation for QANTAS-Emirates partnership. QANTAS currently codeshares on 36 routes operated by BA, which 2/3 of the routes will be cancelled from 31MAR13, where most of them are currently served by Emirates.

 

http://airlineroute.net/2012/11/09/baqf-codeshare-s13/

[BC Tam 2]

QANTAS starting 31MAR13 is reducing codeshare operations with British Airways, as part of its on-going preparation for QANTAS-Emirates partnership

It's a bit like an unloyal spouse go cohabitate with the third party while assessing if divorce would be in everyone's best interest