Foreign Carriers and Malaysia

[Robert 0]

2 hours ago, JuliusWong said:

JQ may work but it will be the first route to be cancelled if there is any pandemic (touch wood) or economy downturn (double touch wood!). The revenue and profitability for Malaysia - Australia market  is very slim and has most of the time been in the dumpster, no thanks to Malaysia Airlines's and AirAsia X's irrational competition during the last decades, especially the latter. Only the recent years they scaled back after bitten by losses after losses. Then Batik Air Malaysia entered the market. I remember at one time AirAsia X flew to MEL 3x per daily. That's crazy! Even Emirates switched their KUL-MEL to SIN-MEL now.

Additional factors:

• The strong Australian currency,
• The hassle in getting Australian visa (although slightly easier now, but still require advanced application, the older folks will give them a miss unless they apply via travel agent) 
• The lack of Australian business in Malaysia to drive the premium market, comparative to Singapore.

I get the yield issue but JQ is LCC so it may work.

I thought you only needed an ETA for holidays and not the subclass 600 visa. Is the ETA a hassle now? 

[flee 5]

5 hours ago, Robert said:

I don't see why JQ wouldn't work?

JQ served KUL for a short while some years ago but withdrew. Nowadays, they prefer to route pax to their SIN flights on 3K. 

[Craig 0]

35 minutes ago, Robert said:

I get the yield issue but JQ is LCC so it may work.

I thought you only needed an ETA for holidays and not the subclass 600 visa. Is the ETA a hassle now? 

I don't know about QF's expected yield from Malaysia but MH is quite gung ho on Australia. They have a lot of connections from/to Asia and UK that can feed to/from their Aussie flights. And then there's also a large Malaysian diaspora in Australia, especially Melbourne. TK, EY, WY also connect their passengers to ANZ via MH (plus OD on some carriers but any seasoned traveler would choose MH over OD).

It's an ETA. We used to get the approval in 3 seconds or so before covid. After covid, Australia require a bit more documentation from certain demographic, mostly young working age adults because there are quite a few Malaysians who overstay or work illegally in Australia (especially in fruit farms). From what I gather, the pain is usually the first time applying using the Australia ETA app (travel agent can't assist pax in applying anymore and seniors are usually instantly approved as well). If I am not mistaken, your data is stored in the app and subsequent ETA application (if you've entered at least once and left after covid) is pretty straight forward and fast as well.

28 minutes ago, flee said:

Nowadays, they prefer to route pax to their SIN flights on 3K. 

Except that 3K departs from SIN T4 and the connections aren't as seamless as it used to be. Loss of lounge for QF FFPs (they have to leave for T4 much earlier) and for business pax, it's a coach seat and 3K doesn't have the best OTP as well. 

[Izanee 0]

It’s a shame that QF can’t make KUL work. I’m surprised that they can make BNE-MNL work but not KUL. They already have SYD-MNL!!

[Craig 0]

6 hours ago, Izanee said:

It’s a shame that QF can’t make KUL work. I’m surprised that they can make BNE-MNL work but not KUL. They already have SYD-MNL!!

Part of me thinks that QF was choosing between SYD-KUL and BNE-MNL (probably along with a few others) because the purported SYD-KUL on MAHB also lists 4 (or 5) weekly service. And looking at QF's BNE-MNL schedule, 01:00 arrival and 02:45 departure at MNL, those kind of schedule probably wouldn't work for KUL (assuming it's based on QF's aircraft availability, not slots).

MY-AU fares on MH aren't exactly low. Can't compare it with D7/OD because it's apples and oranges. I am curious if there's a huge Filipino population in greater BNE area. 

[JuliusWong 0]

7 hours ago, Izanee said:

It’s a shame that QF can’t make KUL work. I’m surprised that they can make BNE-MNL work but not KUL. They already have SYD-MNL!!

Consequences of having too many competitions and heavily discounted tickets on the route when yield is already in the red, from KUL: You have MH, OD, D7 and AK for various Australian routes, except BNE which is missing from all four airlines, OOL with AirAsia X only and ADL with MH only.

From MNL: You only have Cebu Pacific for SYD and MEL. Philippines Airlines on BNE, PER, SYD and MEL. In the other forum, members are suggesting once QF starts the BNE-MNL operation, PR may withdraw from the market.

I am in opinion the Qantas management is not seeing eye-to-eye or unwilling to co-operate with Malaysia Airlines management. Who can blame them though?

Edited May 15 by JuliusWong

[JuliusWong 0]

27 minutes ago, Craig said:

Part of me thinks that QF was choosing between SYD-KUL and BNE-MNL (probably along with a few others) because the purported SYD-KUL on MAHB also lists 4 (or 5) weekly service. And looking at QF's BNE-MNL schedule, 01:00 arrival and 02:45 departure at MNL, those kind of schedule probably wouldn't work for KUL (assuming it's based on QF's aircraft availability, not slots).

MY-AU fares on MH aren't exactly low. Can't compare it with D7/OD because it's apples and oranges. I am curious if there's a huge Filipino population in greater BNE area. 

Based on 2021 population census by Australia Bureau of Statistics, about 28,000 Australians of Filipino ancestry are staying at Greater Brisbane area.

People	27,907
Male	35.2%
Female	64.8%
null	null
Australian citizen	69.9%
Not an Australian citizen	29.7%

 

Families	13,648
Couples with children	7,245
Couples without children	4,800
One parent families	1,396
Other families	214

 

All private dwellings	16,201
Median monthly mortgage repayments	$1,860
Median weekly rent (a)	$375

Edited May 15 by JuliusWong

[JuliusWong 0]

7 hours ago, JuliusWong said:

Consequences of having too many competitions and heavily discounted tickets on the route when yield is already in the red, from KUL: You have MH, OD, D7 and AK for various Australian routes, except BNE which is missing from all four airlines, OOL with AirAsia X only and ADL with MH only.

From MNL: You only have Cebu Pacific for SYD and MEL. Philippines Airlines on BNE, PER, SYD and MEL. In the other forum, members are suggesting once QF starts the BNE-MNL operation, PR may withdraw from the market.

I am in opinion the Qantas management is not seeing eye-to-eye or unwilling to co-operate with Malaysia Airlines management. Who can blame them though?

Slight correction: You have MH, OD, D7 and AK for various Australian routes, except BNE which is missing from all four airlines, BNE with OD only, OOL with AirAsia X only and ADL with MH only.

[kandiah k 0]

Strange that QF cannot make KUL work, after all it is a OW hub and they can do something if they wanted to. Our Malaysian diaspora is crazy in PER and MEL. I guess we can view it as - MH has a superior product to QF - just saying  LOL !

 

[JuliusWong 0]

I would like to ask, has Malaysian carriers exhausted our allocation for Japan, especially to Narita/ Haneda and Osaka? Tried reading MAVCOM document but got confused.

Japan JNTO website has a good summary of the current flight between Malaysia and Japan https://www.japan.travel/en/my/travel-trade/airlines-list/

[Craig 0]

3 hours ago, JuliusWong said:

I would like to ask, has Malaysian carriers exhausted our allocation for Japan, especially to Narita/ Haneda and Osaka? Tried reading MAVCOM document but got confused.

Semi-open skies. Unlimited 3rd and 4th freedom traffic between any points in Malaysia and Japan. Only exception is HND where Malaysia based carrier are given 14 weekly night slots (7 of those slots must be used to code-share with a Japanese carrier; night slots are 22:00-06:00). Malaysia carriers are also limited to 4x weekly 5th freedom flights beyond NRT to SFO, LAX, and ICN (hence MH's former, MH92/93, KUL-NRT-LAX operated only 3-4x a week whilst the rest was via TPE). Also why Air Asia X operated to HNL via KIX. 

[kandiah k 0]

Wonder why MH or JL don't utilize the KUL-HND-JFK/Beyond? Any connection now on MH or JL requires a change of airport from NRT to HND and beyond vice versa. Yields? Slots? 

[Craig 0]

59 minutes ago, kandiah k said:

Wonder why MH or JL don't utilize the KUL-HND-JFK/Beyond? Any connection now on MH or JL requires a change of airport from NRT to HND and beyond vice versa. Yields? Slots? 

They don't even have daytime slots lol. And I don't believe Japan has granted foreign carriers 5th freedom at HND. 

[Robert 0]

56 minutes ago, kandiah k said:

Wonder why MH or JL don't utilize the KUL-HND-JFK/Beyond? Any connection now on MH or JL requires a change of airport from NRT to HND and beyond vice versa. Yields? Slots? 

I didn't see JFK listed by Craig for 4th or 5th freedom rights and it's easier to go via Europe.

US routes were not previously profitable and with nonstop options from Singapore a lot of the high yield passengers would likely take SQ/UA.

The other issue is that MH doesn't have any spare aircraft to operate such routes

[kandiah k 0]

Yeah I guess so but MH could code share heavily on JL for their flights out of HND. I recently flew on a flight from KUL-JFK on JL via SIN and HND. Oh well maybe yields, slots or more could be the main reason(s) why we do not have a KUL-HND-KUL on the Oneworld carriers. Star Alliance works well on that route. 

 

 

[Craig 0]

6 hours ago, kandiah k said:

Yeah I guess so but MH could code share heavily on JL for their flights out of HND. I recently flew on a flight from KUL-JFK on JL via SIN and HND. Oh well maybe yields, slots or more could be the main reason(s) why we do not have a KUL-HND-KUL on the Oneworld carriers. Star Alliance works well on that route. 

Problem is MH doesn't fly to HND anymore. They said they are planning to return to HND but who knows. A daytime slot would work well but that 22:00 arrival is not the best. Any delays and passengers will risk paying an expensive cab fare to the city. And without daytime slot to HND, most pax will have to overnight at Tokyo anyway for US bound pax on JL. 

If you look at JL's schedule, they aren't really keen on US/Canada bound pax. All pax will have to overnight at NRT on their return. JL is happy to serve just the JP-MY + beyond traffic at KUL. And MY-US market is tiny. More than half the plane will be connecting pax if they serve say KUL-LAX nonstop (the largest market US-MY market).

[JuliusWong 0]

12 hours ago, Craig said:

Semi-open skies. Unlimited 3rd and 4th freedom traffic between any points in Malaysia and Japan. Only exception is HND where Malaysia based carrier are given 14 weekly night slots (7 of those slots must be used to code-share with a Japanese carrier; night slots are 22:00-06:00). Malaysia carriers are also limited to 4x weekly 5th freedom flights beyond NRT to SFO, LAX, and ICN (hence MH's former, MH92/93, KUL-NRT-LAX operated only 3-4x a week whilst the rest was via TPE). Also why Air Asia X operated to HNL via KIX. 

Thank you for the information.

It is a pity Malaysia has a lot of Japanese MNCs and Malaysians love to visit and study in Japan, but that two factors are not sufficient to warrant more flight between Malaysia and Japan, especially daytime arrivals into HND. 

[KK Lee 5]

12 hours ago, Craig said:

Problem is MH doesn't fly to HND anymore. They said they are planning to return to HND but who knows. A daytime slot would work well but that 22:00 arrival is not the best. Any delays and passengers will risk paying an expensive cab fare to the city. And without daytime slot to HND, most pax will have to overnight at Tokyo anyway for US bound pax on JL. 

If you look at JL's schedule, they aren't really keen on US/Canada bound pax. All pax will have to overnight at NRT on their return. JL is happy to serve just the JP-MY + beyond traffic at KUL. And MY-US market is tiny. More than half the plane will be connecting pax if they serve say KUL-LAX nonstop (the largest market US-MY market).

Most premium pax from KUL to US west coast, choose SQ then CX.

 

12 hours ago, JuliusWong said:

Thank you for the information.

It is a pity Malaysia has a lot of Japanese MNCs and Malaysians love to visit and study in Japan, but that two factors are not sufficient to warrant more flight between Malaysia and Japan, especially daytime arrivals into HND. 

Japanese are practical people; if MH utilized HND slot and could feed to JL, daytime slots at HND could be available e.g TG, VN and CZ have day time arrival at HND.

[jahur 0]

Indonesian Government Revokes Status of 17 International Airports, What’s Up?

Quote

ASIATODAY.ID, JAKARTA – The Ministry of Transportation of the Republic of Indonesia has revoked the status of 17 international airports to become domestic airports.

“In fact, there are many airports with international status but there have been no international flights for a long time, or there are international flights but only 2-3 times a week,” said Faik Fahmi, Monday, April 29 2024.

“This has become inefficient and many of the facilities in the international terminal which are prepared according to regulatory standards are being used in a limited way. They have even been idle for too long, such as x-ray facilities, waiting rooms in the terminal, and so on. Therefore, the government needs to reorganize them,” he added.

In detail, Faik explained, 16 airports currently managed have been designated as having international status, including, Aceh’s Sultan Iskandar Muda Airport, Deli Serdang’s Kualanamu Airport, Padang’s Minangkabau Airport, Pekanbaru’s Sultan Syarif Kasim II Airport, Batam’s Hang Nadim Airport, Tangerang’s Soekarno Hatta Airport, Jakarta’s Halim Perdanakusuma Airport, and Kertajati Majalengka Airport.

Next are Yogyakarta Kulon Progo International Airport, Juanda Airport Surabaya, I Gusti Ngurah Rai Airport Bali, Zainuddin Abdul Madjid Airport Lombok, SAMS Sepinggan Airport Balikpapan, Sultan Hasanuddin Airport Makassar, Sam Ratulangi Airport Manado, and Sentani Airport Jayapura.

Indonesia downgraded the following airport to domestic that our local airlines are currently plying or planning to fly in.

• Makkasar(mag target, airasia)
• Manado(airasia) [indon DGCA in process of negotiation with few foreign carriers before downgrading]
• Tarakan(ex maswings)
• Pontianak(airasia)
• Bandung(malaysia airlines)

From what i can see once capital relocation has occurred its quite likely international travelers are restricted to just Kalimantan/Manado.

[Alif A. F. 0]

1 hour ago, jahur said:

Indonesian Government Revokes Status of 17 International Airports, What’s Up?

Indonesia downgraded the following airport to domestic that our local airlines are currently plying or planning to fly in.

• Makkasar(mag target, airasia)
• Manado(airasia) [indon DGCA in process of negotiation with few foreign carriers before downgrading]
• Tarakan(ex maswings)
• Pontianak(airasia)
• Bandung(malaysia airlines)

From what i can see once capital relocation has occurred its quite likely international travelers are restricted to just Kalimantan/Manado.

I think UPG (Makassar) has the potential to be eastern Indonesia's international aviation hub. Went pass through the airport in 2013 and it was already an important hub for the region.

[Riza 0]

So no international status for LBJ (Labuan Bajo). 

[JuliusWong 0]

4 hours ago, Alif A. F. said:

I think UPG (Makassar) has the potential to be eastern Indonesia's international aviation hub. Went pass through the airport in 2013 and it was already an important hub for the region.

Seems like the Indonesian government is practicing protectionism subtly. Well, if you own country airline are not flying, why not allow foreign carriers do the deeds. A lot of businessmen/women and medical patients rely on these flight to get to their final destinations. Now with the revocation, they need to travel via Jakarta? That's crazy!

[Robert 0]

1 hour ago, JuliusWong said:

Seems like the Indonesian government is practicing protectionism subtly. Well, if you own country airline are not flying, why not allow foreign carriers do the deeds. A lot of businessmen/women and medical patients rely on these flight to get to their final destinations. Now with the revocation, they need to travel via Jakarta? That's crazy!

Yes I was quite surprised at the language used hence my other post. 

They have always been a pain and I remember them dragging their heals over open sky discussions many years ago. 

Another point they made is that the USA has a relatively small number of international entry points and uses a hub and spoke model.

Hopefully Malaysia doesn't get any funny ideas. 

[Alif A. F. 0]

7 hours ago, jahur said:

Indonesian Government Revokes Status of 17 International Airports, What’s Up?

Indonesia downgraded the following airport to domestic that our local airlines are currently plying or planning to fly in.

• Makkasar(mag target, airasia)
• Manado(airasia) [indon DGCA in process of negotiation with few foreign carriers before downgrading]
• Tarakan(ex maswings)
• Pontianak(airasia)
• Bandung(malaysia airlines)

From what i can see once capital relocation has occurred its quite likely international travelers are restricted to just Kalimantan/Manado.

Oh, wait I don't think UPG is downgraded as domestic. I read the article and UPG is still maintained as international. The way the article was written is confusing (for me) at least.

[Craig 0]

More like a question than an answer. Indian carriers can't seem to make Malaysia work. Perhaps we will see Indigo expand more here given that they signed codeshare/partnership to be implemented sometime in the future for beyond connections. 6E has since moved to T1 at KUL for easier connections.

Quote

Indian carriers have tried connecting Kuala Lumpur to their network multiple times. Back in the mid 2000s, Air Indiaoperated to Kuala Lumpur twice a week with the A310. These were supplemented with flights from Chennai by Indian Airlines and Jet Airways. The connectivity at the start of 2000 comprised just 14 flights, nine by Malaysia Airlines and five by Air India & Indian Airlines combined. Jet Airways and Air Sahara joined in when they got approval to fly international in 2005. The competition from the Malaysian side became intense after the entry of AirAsia in 2009. Gradually airlines from India started pulling out, with Air India, Indian Airlines, Air Sahara, Jet Airways all vacating the route while the last one Air India Express vacating the market in 2016. IndiGo entered in 2019, but has kept a token presence with a single daily to Kuala Lumpur from Chennai, long moving out of Delhi and Bengaluru markets.