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KLIA improvements


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#21 Chris Tan

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 11:27 AM

That is constantly used as an excuse. The UK also has many airports, but LHR is also continually improving. If the govt. has the intention of making KLIA a premier airport, it can always make KLIA the responsibility of another GLC or private company. Then it will not be distracted.

I have also mentioned it before - although Changi is only one airport in Singapore, the company does manage more than just Changi. It is also an airport design and construction consultant and also manages some other airports overseas.

Also remember, KLIA was a premier airport when it was first opened but it did not improve (or even maintain) its level of excellence. So it is possible to be good, but it would appear that the tidak apa attitude is more prevalent these days.

LHR is no benchmark to follow. Unless, of course, you like astronomical taxes and terrible value.

 

And let's not delude ourselves into thinking KLIA can be a "premier" airport. It never was and is unlikely to be one anytime soon. The unfortunate fact remains - KUL doesn't have the traffic, yields and resources to compete with SIN. Unless the government is going to tax the living daylight out of each and every traveller (something which you yourself are an opponent of), we can stop dreaming about having the world's largest man-made waterfall in the region's "premier" aviation hub. What some people are forgetting is Jewel Changi is also intended to be a destination for Singaporeans. How many people live within a reasonable radius of KLIA to actually consider going there just for fun?

 

Sure, certain things can be improved without breaking the bank, like toilets and managing efficiency, but if we're going to turn the fantasies of some into reality, are we ready to pay the price?



#22 Ja Singh

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 12:03 PM

That is constantly used as an excuse. The UK also has many airports, but LHR is also continually improving. If the govt. has the intention of making KLIA a premier airport, it can always make KLIA the responsibility of another GLC or private company. Then it will not be distracted.

I have also mentioned it before - although Changi is only one airport in Singapore, the company does manage more than just Changi. It is also an airport design and construction consultant and also manages some other airports overseas.

Also remember, KLIA was a premier airport when it was first opened but it did not improve (or even maintain) its level of excellence. So it is possible to be good, but it would appear that the tidak apa attitude is more prevalent these days.

I do agree that LHR has vastly improve compared to their previous self's.I took qatar airways from one of the terminals and was not expecting what I saw,great improvement!.Was four months back tho during X mas.

 

KLIA was one of the top 5 sometime back now nowhere to be seen on top 10 even.

 

I agree any "excuses excuses".



#23 jani

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 10:38 AM

The airport fan in me always wants KLIA to have its own waterfall and dome and whatnot and be the most bombastic airport out there.

 

While the airport professional in me can only smile while reading comments on MW :)



#24 Mohd Suhaimi Fariz

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 10:47 AM

LHR is no benchmark to follow. Unless, of course, you like astronomical taxes and terrible value.

 

And let's not delude ourselves into thinking KLIA can be a "premier" airport. It never was and is unlikely to be one anytime soon. The unfortunate fact remains - KUL doesn't have the traffic, yields and resources to compete with SIN. Unless the government is going to tax the living daylight out of each and every traveller (something which you yourself are an opponent of), we can stop dreaming about having the world's largest man-made waterfall in the region's "premier" aviation hub. What some people are forgetting is Jewel Changi is also intended to be a destination for Singaporeans. How many people live within a reasonable radius of KLIA to actually consider going there just for fun?

 

Sure, certain things can be improved without breaking the bank, like toilets and managing efficiency, but if we're going to turn the fantasies of some into reality, are we ready to pay the price?

 

Indeed. One can dream big but if one isn't willing to pay for the dream to become a reality, then one should stop dreaming.

 

The airport fan in me always wants KLIA to have its own waterfall and dome and whatnot and be the most bombastic airport out there.

 

While the airport professional in me can only smile while reading comments on MW :)

 

:rofl:


Edited by Mohd Suhaimi Fariz, 15 April 2019 - 10:47 AM.


#25 flee

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 12:05 PM

LHR is no benchmark to follow. Unless, of course, you like astronomical taxes and terrible value.
 
And let's not delude ourselves into thinking KLIA can be a "premier" airport. It never was and is unlikely to be one anytime soon. The unfortunate fact remains - KUL doesn't have the traffic, yields and resources to compete with SIN. Unless the government is going to tax the living daylight out of each and every traveller (something which you yourself are an opponent of), we can stop dreaming about having the world's largest man-made waterfall in the region's "premier" aviation hub. What some people are forgetting is Jewel Changi is also intended to be a destination for Singaporeans. How many people live within a reasonable radius of KLIA to actually consider going there just for fun?
 
Sure, certain things can be improved without breaking the bank, like toilets and managing efficiency, but if we're going to turn the fantasies of some into reality, are we ready to pay the price?

LHR is probably an excellent example because it has to keep reinventing itself in view of the many many challenges it faced. They just faced them and solved the many and varied problems rather than just give excuses. As many here have said (about KLIA), the charges are not entirely in its control as there is government intervention in determining its quantum.

Contrary to your interpretation of my stand, I am not averse to paying higher airport charges. I am more a value for money person - I will pay if I can see the quality and the value of the product.

I do use Changi (and therefore pay their charges) and only really care about their user friendliness. For me, quick and efficient passenger processing, comfortable waiting areas and fuss free CIQ is worth more than any jewel or swimming pool at an airport.

Coming back to KLIA, there is no harm in aspiring to be a premier airport in Malaysia. Since the other airports are of insufficient standard to achieve this, KLIA is the best candidate. The thing about KLIA is that it started on a high and has been going downhill since. What is wrong with arresting that trend and try to get back to that high again? Admitting defeat even before trying to fix the problems is so pathetic!

Edited by flee, 15 April 2019 - 12:10 PM.


#26 jani

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 12:28 PM

I'm glad that you agree that airport charges remain a huge contributor towards how an airport can be.

 

Lets just look at a simple comparison between KUL and SIN in terms of what they collect (purely from airport tax, and not commercial revenue):

 

Airport Tax (PSC)

 

SIN

Airport Development Levy SGD10.80

Passenger Service Charge SGD32.90

Avg per pax = SGD43.70

= ~RM130

 

KUL

Passenger Service Charge

Domestic (~27%) = RM11

ASEAN (~35%)= RM35

International (ex-ASEAN) (~38%) = RM73

Blended Avg per pax = RM43

 

Its a very, very simplistic way of looking at the situation, but Changi literally collects three times more money per pax than KLIA. Not to mention that they have slightly more pax anyway.

 

Again, I am unwilling to actually debate in all the conversation here because mostly I end up just smiling at the comments, but the above is a very easy way to understand how different the contexts are.



#27 Ja Singh

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 02:48 PM

The airport fan in me always wants KLIA to have its own waterfall and dome and whatnot and be the most bombastic airport out there.

 
While the airport professional in me can only smile while reading comments on MW :)

Nobody here really asked for a waterfall for klia tho.but just top notch basic facilities like toilets usb ports on chairs and likes.

From skytrax survey
we are 45 in the world.Surely not all 44 airports have higher psc then klia right.

From now onwards i gonna also smile only cause i realise thats the best we can do as far as klia is concerned.

Edited by Ja Singh, 15 April 2019 - 02:52 PM.


#28 kandiah k

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 03:13 PM

LHR is probably an excellent example because it has to keep reinventing itself in view of the many many challenges it faced. They just faced them and solved the many and varied problems rather than just give excuses. As many here have said (about KLIA), the charges are not entirely in its control as there is government intervention in determining its quantum.

Contrary to your interpretation of my stand, I am not averse to paying higher airport charges. I am more a value for money person - I will pay if I can see the quality and the value of the product.

I do use Changi (and therefore pay their charges) and only really care about their user friendliness. For me, quick and efficient passenger processing, comfortable waiting areas and fuss free CIQ is worth more than any jewel or swimming pool at an airport.

Coming back to KLIA, there is no harm in aspiring to be a premier airport in Malaysia. Since the other airports are of insufficient standard to achieve this, KLIA is the best candidate. The thing about KLIA is that it started on a high and has been going downhill since. What is wrong with arresting that trend and try to get back to that high again? Admitting defeat even before trying to fix the problems is so pathetic!

 

Totally agree with flee that KLIA cannot afford to be backward just because they do not attract the premium market AND one has to stay competitive in order to survive especially when BKK and SIN are not far away ahead from KUL numbers. Also CGK and MNL could soon overtake KUL in the preferred airport in the region after SIN and BKK. Bear in mind that KUL does not only need to target full service carriers but also the low cost carriers where they have an equal amount of share at present at KUL. 

 

If KUL does not aspire to become something big, it will be a shame as they could do so much more than they are at the moment. I am of the impression that MAHB is very content with its' efforts and thinks that is the end of it as opposed to striving more continuously. Look at SIN, they are just an island and have so little resources but they come up with creative ideas and dream big in order to survive. Actually, they have to and they have achieved so much, why not KUL also think big and make continuous improvements to stay ahead of its competitors? No, they don't think that far, look at the mess they made with Terminal 2 or better known as KLIA2. Constantly repairing the damage they themselves created at the expense of the tax payers and passengers. It is the "tidak apa" attitude that brings KUL down where it is today although skytrax is not the most reliable survey platform. If you read through the news article on KUL's downgrading in airport ranking, you will notice that there is a response from MAHB on the poor ranking, giving reasons for that. "Excuses" is more like it since they don't see it as a way forward to improve their offering by charging the passengers more in taxes. Just my thoughts.  



#29 Chris Tan

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 04:30 PM

Totally agree with flee that KLIA cannot afford to be backward just because they do not attract the premium market AND one has to stay competitive in order to survive especially when BKK and SIN are not far away ahead from KUL numbers. Also CGK and MNL could soon overtake KUL in the preferred airport in the region after SIN and BKK.

Do you honestly think airlines decide where to fly based on the number of USB ports an airport has? Or how high they rank on some ranking by an organisation that is taken seriously by precisely zero serious travellers? The "preferred" airport (whatever that means) is where the money is. BKK and SIN aren't busier or more "preferred" because they have nicer toilets, but because they have bigger markets. BKK can have a chowshed terminal and it'd still be well ahead of KUL in terms of passenger numbers.

Bear in mind that KUL does not only need to target full service carriers but also the low cost carriers where they have an equal amount of share at present at KUL.

You mean give in to LCC demands to build yet another crappy LCCT to minimise costs?

Want to stop the "excuses" and make a change? You can always play your part by flying more often to make our aviation market that much bigger.

#30 KK Lee

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 07:34 PM

I'm glad that you agree that airport charges remain a huge contributor towards how an airport can be.
 
Lets just look at a simple comparison between KUL and SIN in terms of what they collect (purely from airport tax, and not commercial revenue):
 
Airport Tax (PSC)
 
SIN
Airport Development Levy SGD10.80
Passenger Service Charge SGD32.90
Avg per pax = SGD43.70
= ~RM130
 
KUL
Passenger Service Charge
Domestic (~27%) = RM11
ASEAN (~35%)= RM35
International (ex-ASEAN) (~38%) = RM73
Blended Avg per pax = RM43
 
Its a very, very simplistic way of looking at the situation, but Changi literally collects three times more money per pax than KLIA. Not to mention that they have slightly more pax anyway.
 
Again, I am unwilling to actually debate in all the conversation here because mostly I end up just smiling at the comments, but the above is a very easy way to understand how different the contexts are.

Mahb expenses is is myr not sgd. Why needs to use myr/sgd exchange rate not ppp (purchasing power parity)? Mh used to use myr/sgd to compare with sq in justifying it's bloated number of number of employees/labour cost, and we all know where mh ended up.

For reasons why myr has been dropping against usd, sgd, CNY, jpy, etc in the last 30 years.

Edited by KK Lee, 15 April 2019 - 07:38 PM.


#31 Holger

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 08:03 PM

Do you honestly think airlines decide where to fly based on the number of USB ports an airport has? Or how high they rank on some ranking by an organisation that is taken seriously by precisely zero serious travellers? The "preferred" airport (whatever that means) is where the money is. BKK and SIN aren't busier or more "preferred" because they have nicer toilets, but because they have bigger markets. BKK can have a chowshed terminal and it'd still be well ahead of KUL in terms of passenger numbers.
 

 

*like*

 

The same case with AirAsia X. They are growing where the bigger market is....Bangkok! Especially from markets like Japan, Korea, China or maybe someday Europe.



#32 KK Lee

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 12:10 AM

 
*like*
 
The same case with AirAsia X. They are growing where the bigger market is....Bangkok! Especially from markets like Japan, Korea, China or maybe someday Europe.


Comparing dxb, ahu and doh; proximity is not a growth obstacle, airport play a role/contribute to traffic growth. If dxb is a cowshed, could ek be like today?

#33 Holger

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 01:26 AM

Comparing dxb, ahu and doh; proximity is not a growth obstacle, airport play a role/contribute to traffic growth. If dxb is a cowshed, could ek be like today?

 

You can not compare transit hubs like DOH or AUH with a city like Bangkok which is the most visited city all around the world.



#34 Chris Tan

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 03:43 AM

Comparing dxb, ahu and doh; proximity is not a growth obstacle, airport play a role/contribute to traffic growth. If dxb is a cowshed, could ek be like today?

Could EK/EY/QR be like today if they were not owned and heavily subsidised by oil-rich governments that are awash with cash?

#35 KK Lee

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 06:21 AM

Could EK/EY/QR be like today if they were not owned and heavily subsidised by oil-rich governments that are awash with cash?

Mab received similar if not more subsidy from our gomen and still couldn't break even.

#36 Chris Tan

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 07:23 AM

Mab received similar if not more subsidy from our gomen and still couldn't break even.

If you think the ME3 are truly for-profit businesses then I've got a bridge to sell you.

#37 KK Lee

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 08:39 AM

If you think the ME3 are truly for-profit businesses then I've got a bridge to sell you.


Arabs royalty/sovereign wealth management is shrewd and return is higher than khazanah. If me3 is not making profit, dropped in oil price would have revealed.

Edited by KK Lee, 16 April 2019 - 08:40 AM.


#38 Mohd Suhaimi Fariz

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 08:52 AM

Arabs royalty/sovereign wealth management is shrewd and return is higher than khazanah. If me3 is not making profit, dropped in oil price would have revealed.

 

Indeed. Just look at EY. EK meanwhile is cancelling plane orders left & right.

 

Shrewd.


Edited by Mohd Suhaimi Fariz, 16 April 2019 - 08:53 AM.


#39 jani

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 10:17 AM

Mahb expenses is is myr not sgd. Why needs to use myr/sgd exchange rate not ppp (purchasing power parity)? Mh used to use myr/sgd to compare with sq in justifying it's bloated number of number of employees/labour cost, and we all know where mh ended up.

For reasons why myr has been dropping against usd, sgd, CNY, jpy, etc in the last 30 years.

 

1. I already said it was a simplistic comparison

 

2. Even if you wanted to start a debate on PPP (wow, so technical), are you telling me SGD43 and RM43 goes the same way?

 

3. Would an aerotrain or BHS system cost different in SG or MY? Come on bro what the...



#40 KK Lee

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Posted 16 April 2019 - 12:15 PM

 
1. I already said it was a simplistic comparison
 
2. Even if you wanted to start a debate on PPP (wow, so technical), are you telling me SGD43 and RM43 goes the same way?
 
3. Would an aerotrain or BHS system cost different in SG or MY? Come on bro what the...


How much aerotrain and bhs system constitutes airport capex? How much of mahb opex are in myr?

You were the one started converting sgd to myr.




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