The contenders for Nuri's replacement

[Naim 6]

 

NST Online » Focus

2007/07/22

 

The contenders for Nuri's replacement

By : K.S. USHA DEVI and MAZLINDA MAHMOOD

 

With Malaysia now looking to replace the ageing fleet of Nuri helicopters, many manufacturers will be knocking at the doors of the Royal Malaysian Air Force. K.S. USHA DEVI and MAZLINDA MAHMOOD speak to a retired general and several defence experts to find out what their favourite would be.

 

THE verdict is in. The Nuri is out.

 

And, although former army field commander Lt-Gen ® Datuk Seri Mohd Zaini Mohd Said would like the Nuri to stay on, the government has decided otherwise.

 

Of the three other defence experts the New Sunday Times spoke to, two had the AgustaWestland EH-101 Merlin as their pick.

 

Defence and security analyst Dzirhan Mahadzir believes the Merlin should be chosen as it is versatile and has a good technical record.

 

Asian Defence Journal editor M. Ghazemy Mahmud says the Merlin would be ideal because of Malaysia’s need for multi-role helicopters.

 

Ghazemy, however, is torn between the Merlin and the NH Industries NH-90, which he says would also be ideal for the Royal Malaysian Air Force.

 

Terrorism expert Andrin Raj has the Russian-made Mi-17 as his favourite.

 

The Eurocopter and NH Industries models may not be suitable for Malaysian weather, Raj says, but the Mi-17 would be ideal as it has been tried and tested by the Fire and Rescue Department.

 

They all agreed on two things: Competition would be fierce for the contract to supply the RMAF with helicopters to replace the Nuri, and that the government should go for state-of-the-art aircraft.

 

“They (the RMAF and government) have their work cut out for them as there are many models in the market that could be good replacements for the Nuri,” says Ghazemy.

 

Among the helicopters he listed were the Eurocopter EC725 Cougar, Sikorsky S-92 Superhawk and UH60 Black Hawk, the Mi-17, and the Boeing CH-47 Chinook.

 

Zaini listed the Sea Hawk (naval version of the Black Hawk), the Mi-17, NH-90 and Merlin as possible replacements for the Nuri.

 

Dzirhan had, as his second choices, the NH-90, the Chinook and the Cougar.

 

Top picks:

 

AGUSTAWESTLAND EH-101 MERLIN (UK)

 

The EH-101 has all of the important features: A reasonably-sized cabin, a rear ramp, and can hoist a fair load from its cargo hook. The advantage of the EH-101 is its third engine – the ‘spare’ engine can be shut down for fuel economy or spooled up when extra power is needed.

 

Length (overall): 19.53m

Rotor diameters: 18.60m (main rotor), 4m (tail rotor)

Weights: max all-up (ext. load) 14,600kg, 4,535kg hoist

Performance: speed 309 kph, range 900km, ceiling 4,572m

Powerplant: 3 x 1275kW (1700shp) GE CT-7 turboshafts

 

NH INDUSTRIES NH-90 (EUROPE)

 

The NH-90 is an advanced medium utility helicopter, capable of undertaking a wide variety of roles. It was developed to meet a European requirement to replace a range of ageing helicopters. The NH-90 is a product of more than 10 years of development and testing to meet stringent capability and low maintenance requirements. The NH-90 can carry up to 12 fully equipped or 19 lightly equipped soldiers. It can also lift an Army Light Operational Vehicle.

 

Length (overall): 16.11m

Rotor diameters: 16.3m (main rotor)

Weights: max all-up (ext. load) 9,100kg

Performance: speed 300 kph, range 1,204km

Powerplant: Two RTM 322-01/3 turboshafts

 

KAZAN Mi-17 (RUSSIA)

 

The Mi-17 can carry a wide range of guns, guided and unguided missiles, and bombs up to 500kg. Machine guns are situated in flexible mounts in the cockpit and at the rear door. Cabin windows are equipped with eight gun-pilot units to enable troopers to fire during flight. Armour protection from small arms fire is provided for the cockpit, the pilots' seats, the gunners' floor, and the hydraulic unit.

 

Length (overall): 18.42m

Rotor diameters: 21.29m (main rotor)

Cabin/hold size: 5.34m L x 2.34m W x 1.8m H

Weights: max all-up (ext. load) 13,000kg

Performance: speed 250 kph, range 715km, ceiling 5,000m

 

Other contenders:

 

SIKORSKY S-92 SUPERHAWK (US)

 

Touted as cost-effective to operate, the Superhawk can be used for a variety of missions, including troop transport, external lifting, combat search and rescue, casualty evacuation and head of state missions.

 

It is designed for extreme mission endurance, and offers a series of extensive mission-specific options, from cabin configuration to military navigation and communication systems and aircrafts survival systems.

 

SIKORSKY BLACK HAWK/SEA HAWK (US)

 

Its principal mission include the transport of troops, artillery, ammunition, fuel, water, barrier materials, supplies and equipment on the battlefield. Other missions include medical evacuation, aircraft recovery, fire fighting, parachute drops, heavy construction, civil development, disaster relief, and search and rescue.

 

EUROCOPTER EC725 COUGAR (EUROPE)

 

The EC725 is a long-range helicopter, powered by two Turbomeca Makila 2A turboshaft engines. It can carry two crew members and 29 troops. It can also be configured to take 12 stretchers.

 

BOEING CH-47 CHINOOK (US)

 

The Boeing CH-47 Chinook is a versatile, twin-engine, tandem rotor heavy-lift helicopter. The contra-rotating rotors eliminate the need for an anti-torque vertical rotor, allowing all power to be used for lift and thrust. Its top speed of 170 knots (315 kph) is faster than the utility and attack helicopters of the 1960s and even many of today.

 

Its primary roles include troop movement, artillery replacement and battlefield resupply. There is a wide loading ramp at the rear of the fuselage and three external cargo hooks.

 

http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Sun...icle/index_html

[Md. Rudy 0]

Some local defense magazines had reported that Malaysia Armed Forces have shortlisted NH90 as Nuri replacement long before the latest Nuri accident. Merlin would be a good choice too but NH90 would be cheaper than Merlin.

 

But, as usual the best equipment is 2nd priority as main priority for govt seems to be paying with palm oil etc instead of cash...

[H Azmal 0]

They pay everything with palm oil...even the latest KTM locomotives were bought from China with palm oil...per se I see nothing wrong with that.The downside is that we can tend to lose a lot if palm oil prices go up as we have to give to them over a period of time at a fixed price.

 

On a lighter note, if they go for the EH-101...then it is funnily similar to what is described by the 'Sea king in the sun' song... hee hee

Edited July 23, 2007 by H Azmal

[KK Lee 5]

Terrorism expert Andrin Raj has the Russian-made Mi-17 as his favourite.

 

The Eurocopter and NH Industries models may not be suitable for Malaysian weather, Raj says, but the Mi-17 would be ideal as it has been tried and tested by the Fire and Rescue Department.

 

http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Sun...icle/index_html

 

Didn’t know Russian equipment is better tested than European and American.

 

Guess he is one of those calling to replace Army standard issue rifle with AK-47 or Land Rover with UAZ-469.

 

 

[Yusoff 1]

I'd say get a couple of Chinooks while they're at it..

[Md. Rudy 0]

They pay everything with palm oil...even the latest KTM locomotives were bought from China with palm oil...per se I see nothing wrong with that.The downside is that we can tend to lose a lot if palm oil prices go up as we have to give to them over a period of time at a fixed price.

 

On a lighter note, if they go for the EH-101...then it is funnily similar to what is described by the 'Sea king in the sun' song... hee hee

 

There is nothing wrong paying with palm oil, just that not every vendor accept 'palm oil' instead for cash. The US for sure will not accept palm oil since no one use it, not to mention America had a 'palm oil is bad' campaign.

 

This policy may force Armed Forces to aquire 2nd/3rd choice of equipment, that may not satify their operational requirement fully.

[BC Tam 2]

..... The US for sure will not accept palm oil since no one use it, not to mention America had a 'palm oil is bad' campaign .....

Ah, this is before the 'bio-diesel' discovery though.

Have not heard about soya oil being converted to diesel yet have you ?

[Samuel Chy 0]

i thought they will replace with Dolphin, or something known like that. or it is capable for military used?

[Pieter C. 5]

I'd say get a couple of Chinooks while they're at it..

 

Agree there: very versatile and reliable workhorse (at least in the RNethAF)

 

[Maarof Kassim 0]

Stupid question I guess. I don't follow helicopters very much, but is the Bell Huey still in use/production?

[Radzi 2]

Stupid question I guess. I don't follow helicopters very much, but is the Bell Huey still in use/production?

 

In production, I don't think so (but not sure). But in use, yes, including in Viet Nam.

 

[mokhzani 0]

The Philipines is getting some used Hueys from the US recently...

[Andrew Lim 1]

Stupid question I guess. I don't follow helicopters very much, but is the Bell Huey still in use/production?

 

 

Yes, the original Huey is still in limited use with some Armies but no longer in production.

 

It has been superseded by the Bell 212 and 412 which looks like the Huey generally but has a more streamlined airframe and twin engines.

These 'new generation Hueys' are in service with the Canadian Armed Forces (known as CH-146 Griffon), US Marines, Royal Air Force (Bell 412 Griffin) and a few other nations.

 

 

Back to the main topic, I feel thay the RMAF should get the Merlin as the main workhorse (troop/equipment ferrying) and buy the Bell 412 for SAR/training.

 

Both the Merlin and NH-90 is a bit too big to land in the dense Msian jungles for rescue ops.

 

This is what the Royal Air Force has done, i think. I may also be saying all these just because I'm a Bell 412 fan.

 

 

 

I have a question here: Wy is the Nuri (and its new replacement) still under RMAF and not the Tentera Darat (TD)? I realise that our new Agusta A109s are already under the TD's controls, but why not the Nuris? Surely it would make more sense as the Nuri is really there primarily to serve the TD.

Edited July 24, 2007 by Andrew Lim

[Maarof Kassim 0]

I was just wondering when every one of our neighbours is using the Bell Huey, why don't we? Why did we choose to be different? But if the Hueys are no more in production, no point then because buying second hand helicopters is out of the question.

[Md. Rudy 0]

Ah, this is before the 'bio-diesel' discovery though.

Have not heard about soya oil being converted to diesel yet have you ?

 

 

The US just signed an agreement with one south american country (brazil if not wrong) to develop bio-fuel from sugar cane, ethanol i think.

 

You see, country like the US will never recognize tiny country (like malaysia) advancement, they will find other alternative.

[BC Tam 2]

That be as it may, us in 'tiny country' must work doubly hard to make bio-diesel from palm oil a better success story than ethanol from sugar cane !

 

Nothing new about getting ethanol from sugar cane though - it's known as rum, has been for ages

Edited July 24, 2007 by BC Tam

[KK Lee 5]

That be as it may, us in 'tiny country' must work doubly hard to make bio-diesel from palm oil a better success story than ethanol from sugar cane !

 

It cost about M$0.80 per liter to convert palm oil to diesel. Without Government subsidies or tax exemption, bio-diesel from palm oil can never be price competitive with diesel. Further more, supply of palm oil is limited, the demand for bio diesel conversion will drive the palm oil price even higher.

 

Don’t expect EU or US Government to subsidies bio-diesel from palm oil.

 

[Tamizi Hj Tamby 1]

If i'm not mistaken,Russian had agreed that we can made barter trade(or sort of anything like that) for the payment of Su-30MKM.

 

Well,I've heard rumors last year that RMAF is planning to aqcuire Mi-17,but it's just a rumor.

[Desmond C 0]

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...&sec=nation

[Azmir I. 1]

The RMAF has traditionaly provided airlift support for the Armed Forces ,just like the RAF Support Helicopter Force.The A109 used by the Army PUTD is for reccon and light attack/anti tank,Navy Fleet Air Arm Super Lynx for Maritime duties,but its high time the RMAF give up the responsibilty to provide tactical airlift,give that role to the Army,and concentrate on providing CSAR or Special ops support just like the USAF.The Mi-17 used by BOMBA was initially intended for the Air Force but was quietly rejected and forwarded to the RFS.IMHO I think the RMAF should use the NH90,like thr Australian Army and Navy,besides alot of their trainning and defence doctrine is based on the Australian Defence Forces.

[A Fira 0]

 

My bet the SuperPuma L2 will be the replacement helicopter. Everybody seems to like French product lately with the 320,319,ATR orders.

[Geoff R. 0]

My bet the SuperPuma L2 will be the replacement helicopter. Everybody seems to like French product lately with the 320,319,ATR orders.

 

 

I think Eurocopter will offer the EC725. This is the military designation for the civil EC225 which was developed from the Super Puma L2. It has a five blade main rotor, higher take-off weight and more powerful engines but is still just a stretched, more powerful, upgraded 1960's Puma.

 

Geoff

[mokhzani 0]

its high time the RMAF give up the responsibilty to provide tactical airlift,give that role to the Army,and concentrate on providing CSAR or Special ops support

 

I read somehwhere, that, that was the thinking, whether or not the govt has the resource for it is another matter.....

[Fitri Shukri 0]

The RMAF has traditionaly provided airlift support for the Armed Forces ,just like the RAF Support Helicopter Force.The A109 used by the Army PUTD is for reccon and light attack/anti tank,Navy Fleet Air Arm Super Lynx for Maritime duties,but its high time the RMAF give up the responsibilty to provide tactical airlift,give that role to the Army,and concentrate on providing CSAR or Special ops support just like the USAF.The Mi-17 used by BOMBA was initially intended for the Air Force but was quietly rejected and forwarded to the RFS.IMHO I think the RMAF should use the NH90,like thr Australian Army and Navy,besides alot of their trainning and defence doctrine is based on the Australian Defence Forces.

 

Agree with AIFly regarding the separation of roles between RMAF and the Army. However, I sense an internal competition between the RMAF and Army as who should man the rotary transport roles, as well as the planned but not yet materialise attack helicopter squadron. Each want a piece of the action.

I think it would go to either the NH90 or the EH101. Well, the EH101 look nearly like the outgoing Nuri.

[A Fira 0]

Agree with AIFly regarding the separation of roles between RMAF and the Army. However, I sense an internal competition between the RMAF and Army as who should man the rotary transport roles, as well as the planned but not yet materialise attack helicopter squadron. Each want a piece of the action.

I think it would go to either the NH90 or the EH101. Well, the EH101 look nearly like the outgoing Nuri.

 

Upgrade the Nuri to "full" CSAR capability for the Air Force and buy another type for Army tactical transport role. I have good experience maintaining the S61 and i can assure there is no airworthiness issue. My observation is sometimes the green light for the upgrade takes to long time by time it is approved the technology is out dated like in the case of last Nuri auto hover upgrade. The USAF is tipped to choose the upgraded Chinook (60's design like the S61) for their CSAR-X (next generation CSAR) beating NH90, S92 and EH101.

 

Technical and tactical is not the only reason for selection. Another one is political. Any company which has the better political weight will win the contract. Now they are two camps- Agusta camps and Eurocopter camps. Both has their own political trump card.