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jahur

Relocation of KKIA

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Apparently a new site has been selected over at Kimanis.

Companies to explore relocation of KKIA to Kimanis

KUALA LUMPUR: The Sabah government, through its strategic investment arm Qhazanah Sabah Bhd (QSB), has signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) with property developer Berjaya Land Bhd (BLand) to explore the possible relocation of Kota Kinabalu International Airport (KKIA) to Kimanis.

As of this month
KK airport relocation study completed, to be presented on Thursday

KOTA KINABALU: The feasibility study on the relocation of the Kota Kinabalu International Airport has been completed.

Qhazanah Sabah Bhd chairman Datuk Dr Yusof Yacob said the report would be presented to the relevant authority this week.

"There will be a presentation of the report to the Sabah Economic Planning unit on Thursday.

"After that it will be brought to the next cabinet meeting for approval," he said during a press conference at the government-linked company's office here.

 

Project rumored to range within 4-5bil

While it sounds possible on long term basis. We have yet to actually fully utilize the current space in KKIA. I've Gone visiting in Bali, Phuket, and looking at Cebu, the land optimization use in BKI is pretty bad.

Currently the list of issues at present BKI

1) BKI lacks aircraft parking spots during peak hours but offpeak the airport is a literal ghost town with up to 9-12 aircraft bays available.
2) Immigration for domestic arrival outside of Sabah constraint by lack of counters to handle 5-6 flights arriving at once arriving.
3) Lack of bays available for Redcap.
4) Lack of bays for MAG, Redcap to position their aircraft overnight when the Koreans and PRC come late night.

Instead of immediately hawking the idea of new airport. The federal gov needs to address the current situation instead. Some of the list of fixes are easy to implement if there is will.

1) Build more remote bays. Our Asean neighbors are doing it efficiently.
2) Extend a bit of the international and domestic terminal.
3) Stop pandering to airline demands. In other places its the airport authority that decides landing slot allocation with "take it or leave it". Over here airlines are demanding arrival timing. It goes back to what kind of tourist Sabah is attracting. Theres 9-12 empty bays available during offpeak tell them to take those timing. If that kind of arrival timing is not sustainable to the airline it means something is wrong with Sabah. For example does it mean if BKI implements night curfew PRC and Koreans cannot handle the drop in yield as they have to slot the flights to daytime? If thats the case something is wrong.
 

A simple extension and land use of present KKIA i guarantee would sort most of the issue for 10 years or so. The image i uploaded havent even add additional remote bays near the main taxiway to allow 3-6 more a320 to dock lol. The image uploaded airasia gain an easy permanent 10-12 aircraft bays to play around.

Apart from adding more immigration counters, Immigration dept Sabah also needs to start looking at using passport autogates for domestic arrival. Another to stop checking sabahan IC thats a waste 80seconds per queue find ways to bypass ic checks.

I guarantee this usage efficiency is only gonna cost federal not even 800mil(it includes relocation cost for house owners) and they can better optimize spare funds to upgrade existing infrastructure in Sabah instead or upgrade existing airports like Tawau(itself is a hellhole during peak hours).

The only reason the Gov seems to support the airport relocation is they dont have to pay a cent as it is private funded but it just goes for another potential white elephant same story for Kulim airport. Also there's no train connection at the airport in Kimanis as being an example plus the Sabah population being so small does not support such mode of transport commute to the airport.

bkifull_-_Copy123.png

Edited by jahur

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I think we have to look beyond the perimeter of the existing airport. Developers have been pushing for higher density and taller buildings in areas near the airport. KK area itself is not as wide as Greater KL. Plenty of opportunities to redevelop otherwise lower density areas into high rises especially at the city centre, where flight paths are almost right over. 

And then some would argue higher risk of planes so close to populated areas. Pollution some more, although aviation has made great strides in improving CO2 emissions and quieter planes.

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14 minutes ago, Alif A. F. said:

I think we have to look beyond the perimeter of the existing airport. Developers have been pushing for higher density and taller buildings in areas near the airport. KK area itself is not as wide as Greater KL. Plenty of opportunities to redevelop otherwise lower density areas into high rises especially at the city centre, where flight paths are almost right over. 

And then some would argue higher risk of planes so close to populated areas. Pollution some more, although aviation has made great strides in improving CO2 emissions and quieter planes.

We have many malls downtown with empty rentals and condos with 0 occupancy rates but being bought for conversion to pesky airbnbs. Population density plus local buying power is not up to mark to support such feat. 

The airport argument now is the current capacity issue vs the realistic outlook that you have empty aircraft bays offpeak. Its poor optimization use of the aircraft bays. Infact remote bays have been implemented at many airports in asean and i have no idea why that is such a taboo thing for Malaysia. Also things like Tawau airport being unable to handle 6th narrowbody aircraft on arrival needs immediate rectification note this airport is facilitating Semporna as well.

As for KK, the current remedy has already been discussed countless time but the gov is more interested in relocating.

Another issue is with the relocation in kimanis. Anything beyond 45minutes of driving already requires a proper airport railway system. With the low density population plus low buying power in Sabah it is something that could not be feasibly be implemented without forms of subsidies. The ROI wont be there unless Sabah becomes a mega corporate+manufacturing state. It is currently only fixated on mass tourism without even upgrading existing facilities to even attract former target markets from Japan and Australia.

Edited by jahur

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BKI has the same problems as PEN. Although it is desirable to keep them, they have no room for further expansion without massive upheavals in the area. Land acquisition will be very expensive and traffic arrangements will be problematic. It was the same at SZB decades ago - that is why the govt. has resorted to building at a new site further from the city. However, it needs to be well planned so that it can meet the objectives of having a world class airport.

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5 hours ago, jahur said:

 

3 hours ago, jahur said:

We have many malls downtown with empty rentals and condos with 0 occupancy rates but being bought for conversion to pesky airbnbs. Population density plus local buying power is not up to mark to support such feat. 

The airport argument now is the current capacity issue vs the realistic outlook that you have empty aircraft bays offpeak. Its poor optimization use of the aircraft bays. Infact remote bays have been implemented at many airports in asean and i have no idea why that is such a taboo thing for Malaysia. Also things like Tawau airport being unable to handle 6th narrowbody aircraft on arrival needs immediate rectification note this airport is facilitating Semporna as well.

As for KK, the current remedy has already been discussed countless time but the gov is more interested in relocating.

Another issue is with the relocation in kimanis. Anything beyond 45minutes of driving already requires a proper airport railway system. With the low density population plus low buying power in Sabah it is something that could not be feasibly be implemented without forms of subsidies. The ROI wont be there unless Sabah becomes a mega corporate+manufacturing state. It is currently only fixated on mass tourism without even upgrading existing facilities to even attract former target markets from Japan and Australia.

Pesky Airbnbs or vacant apartments aren't just limited to Kota Kinabalu / Malaysia alone. A lot of big cities (e.g. London, UK, Vancouver, BC) suffer from this problem too. A lot of these homes are sold to overseas investors to park their cash and they rather just let it sit empty rather than renting it out. And Malaysia is one of the few countries where we build "Airbnb/homestay specialized condos" and stupidly enough, people buy it not knowing that hotel rates in Malaysia is one of the cheapest in the region.

You know, I know, and most likely the blind even know why a new airport is the preferred option. But Kimanis? That's a good 50km from KK city center (almost as far as KLIA from KL CBD). Like you say, it's an hour drive from KK without traffic and Sabah roads aren't exactly potholes and traffic free either.  I guess CAAM still want foreign carriers into BKI and thus are still kissing the airline's asses for now. 

Speaking of Australia, who remembers Australian Airlines twice weekly MEL-BKI B767 in the early 2000s? Now we don't even get Jetstar (JQ), let alone Qantas.

1 hour ago, flee said:

However, it needs to be well planned so that it can meet the objectives of having a world class airport.

😂😂😂

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1 hour ago, flee said:

BKI has the same problems as PEN. Although it is desirable to keep them, they have no room for further expansion without massive upheavals in the area. Land acquisition will be very expensive and traffic arrangements will be problematic. It was the same at SZB decades ago - that is why the govt. has resorted to building at a new site further from the city. However, it needs to be well planned so that it can meet the objectives of having a world class airport.

Cant argue on PEN theres really not much place to build apron over there. But as for BKI there's so many ample place to build apron beside maskargo, and beside the main taxiway. All of these land is still under MAHB land without even going past exiting the perimeter fence. Some of the minor land use could easily grant bki up to 9-12 extra bays and it does not involve relocating anyone nor buying land. 

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I take that back regarding PEN. Theres actually ample space for remote bays facing opposite the terminal just before the runway 🤣.

I am not sure whats wrong with Malaysia. Dehli, Dhaka, Bali, Phuket, Cebu and even down Sydney when parking is insufficient they'll be a minor project of expanding adding bays. Bus services are then used.

Perhaps Malaysia wants to act big by saying using bus sending pax to remote bay is a pariah thing but you guys cant even plan an aerotrain replacement timeline. 

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15 minutes ago, Craig said:

Pesky Airbnbs or vacant apartments aren't just limited to Kota Kinabalu / Malaysia alone. A lot of big cities (e.g. London, UK, Vancouver, BC) suffer from this problem too. A lot of these homes are sold to overseas investors to park their cash and they rather just let it sit empty rather than renting it out. And Malaysia is one of the few countries where we build "Airbnb/homestay specialized condos" and stupidly enough, people buy it not knowing that hotel rates in Malaysia is one of the cheapest in the region.

You know, I know, and most likely the blind even know why a new airport is the preferred option. But Kimanis? That's a good 50km from KK city center (almost as far as KLIA from KL CBD). Like you say, it's an hour drive from KK without traffic and Sabah roads aren't exactly potholes and traffic free either.  I guess CAAM still want foreign carriers into BKI and thus are still kissing the airline's asses for now. 

Speaking of Australia, who remembers Australian Airlines twice weekly MEL-BKI B767 in the early 2000s? Now we don't even get Jetstar (JQ), let alone Qantas.

😂😂😂

The driving reason why there's no point for the future generation to procure property cause greedy folks would consolidate it into an investment. Ive seen a young datuk who has no job owning up to 16 property renting out. 

Kimanis again may work if Sabah's economy is up to mark in the manufacturing and corporate scene. Plus has diversified out of solely depending on mass tourism. Plus a dedicated airport railway from city centre instead of 100% on the road driving.

Currently problems are

1) we're still in the rm1200 min wage(yes they did not even follow the west 1.5k min sticking to Sabahs Law Ordience more likely sticking to taukeh's whims)

2)corporate scene barely exist outside of few small scale GLCs. 

3) manufacturing presence is very small. Some tiny leeway with Hyundai setting up but its not significant enough.

4)No signs of arab, aussie, European, japanese tourists. Even Cebu Da nang have already jump start collecting Qatar Airways and Korean Air.

5)airport rail link not feasible with all the listed problems above. Plus we have a gov looking to exit out any form of subsidies. 

Another thing If the economy in the state is that lackluster try to stop being the "family friendly goody two shoes nonsense" its not helping that youths are leaving the state for better jobs. 

Edited by jahur

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Frankly, we don't even know what Sabah will be in the next 5-10 years. 

Our guesses and projections are just based on what's happening right now assuming current economic trends continues. 

Will having a replacement airport elevate Sabah's economy more? 

Similarly, some criticize Pan Borneo highway and said the money could have been spent improving rural roads.

Perhaps, Kuching is the better candidate for new airport? Their economy is larger and the manufacturing sector especially in energy sector is in more stronger footing.

At the end of the day, airport is just merely conduit and terminus for people and goods entering and exiting a region. 

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6 hours ago, flee said:

BKI has the same problems as PEN. Although it is desirable to keep them, they have no room for further expansion without massive upheavals in the area. Land acquisition will be very expensive and traffic arrangements will be problematic. It was the same at SZB decades ago - that is why the govt. has resorted to building at a new site further from the city. However, it needs to be well planned so that it can meet the objectives of having a world class airport.

Land reclamation would be cheaper than building a new airport.

SZB had reserve land for TWO (2) runways. And these land was re-gazetted and became property development by cronies.

 

9 hours ago, jahur said:

We have many malls downtown with empty rentals and condos with 0 occupancy rates but being bought for conversion to pesky airbnbs. Population density plus local buying power is not up to mark to support such feat. 

The airport argument now is the current capacity issue vs the realistic outlook that you have empty aircraft bays offpeak. Its poor optimization use of the aircraft bays. Infact remote bays have been implemented at many airports in asean and i have no idea why that is such a taboo thing for Malaysia. Also things like Tawau airport being unable to handle 6th narrowbody aircraft on arrival needs immediate rectification note this airport is facilitating Semporna as well.

As for KK, the current remedy has already been discussed countless time but the gov is more interested in relocating.

Another issue is with the relocation in kimanis. Anything beyond 45minutes of driving already requires a proper airport railway system. With the low density population plus low buying power in Sabah it is something that could not be feasibly be implemented without forms of subsidies. The ROI wont be there unless Sabah becomes a mega corporate+manufacturing state. It is currently only fixated on mass tourism without even upgrading existing facilities to even attract former target markets from Japan and Australia.

Those walk in the corridor of power are only interested in new development rather than making existing facilities more efficient for the obvious reasons. 

The further the new airport is away from the city center; the longer the road construction, the higher the toll collection, etc.

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5 hours ago, KK Lee said:

Land reclamation would be cheaper than building a new airport

In case of BKI, any further land reclamation will encroach upon/deteriorate the nearby marine national park, a rich lucrative vein for the tourism industry, which in turn has been a major contributor to BKI's traffic growth

I guess not wise to kill the goose that lay eggs 😁

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13 hours ago, jahur said:

I take that back regarding PEN. Theres actually ample space for remote bays facing opposite the terminal just before the runway 🤣.

I am not sure whats wrong with Malaysia. Dehli, Dhaka, Bali, Phuket, Cebu and even down Sydney when parking is insufficient they'll be a minor project of expanding adding bays. Bus services are then used.

Perhaps Malaysia wants to act big by saying using bus sending pax to remote bay is a pariah thing but you guys cant even plan an aerotrain replacement timeline. 

 

13 hours ago, jahur said:

2)corporate scene barely exist outside of few small scale GLCs. 

3) manufacturing presence is very small. Some tiny leeway with Hyundai setting up but its not significant enough.

4)No signs of arab, aussie, European, japanese tourists. Even Cebu Da nang have already jump start collecting Qatar Airways and Korean Air.

I've been to Sabah a few times and often I am shocked how expensive it is over there for something that isn't found locally. Logistics cost of shipping a lot of things either from Peninsula or outside Malaysia coupled with low wages means local have very low spending power. I can't imagine it will be cheap other than labour cost for corporation to set up a HQ or manufacturing facility in Sabah. Sarawak on the other hand is actually very affordable. 

Weren't there some rumours back in 2019 that Qatar wants to fly to BKI (and they realize that there are a lot of connections to BKI on their flights?). Do the Middle Eastern visitors enjoy outdoors (i.e. national park, scuba diving, hiking etc.) activities tho? I don't think Arabs should be Sabah's target. Europe, ANZ, US/Canada etc. are better target markets for Sabah. And US State Department has updated east coast Sabah (Sipadan, Sandakan, etc.) to Level 2 (exercise increased level of caution) instead of Level 3 avoid all non-essential travel.

I think QR's Cebu flight is mainly to cater to migrant workers where as Koreans have invested a lot in Cebu as well. I was surprised to see so many Koreans in Cebu and surrounding islands.

8 hours ago, KK Lee said:

SZB had reserve land for TWO (2) runways. And these land was re-gazetted and became property development by cronies.

I am curious - where is the second runway supposed to be? Directly parallel and adjacent to the current one?

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5 hours ago, BC Tam said:

In case of BKI, any further land reclamation will encroach upon/deteriorate the nearby marine national park, a rich lucrative vein for the tourism industry, which in turn has been a major contributor to BKI's traffic growth

I guess not wise to kill the goose that lay eggs 😁

From Maldives experience; land reclamation on shallow water next to south end of runway should have little impact on the marine park and sufficient area to double BKI pax handling capacity.

 

2 hours ago, Craig said:

 

I've been to Sabah a few times and often I am shocked how expensive it is over there for something that isn't found locally. Logistics cost of shipping a lot of things either from Peninsula or outside Malaysia coupled with low wages means local have very low spending power. I can't imagine it will be cheap other than labour cost for corporation to set up a HQ or manufacturing facility in Sabah. Sarawak on the other hand is actually very affordable. 

Weren't there some rumours back in 2019 that Qatar wants to fly to BKI (and they realize that there are a lot of connections to BKI on their flights?). Do the Middle Eastern visitors enjoy outdoors (i.e. national park, scuba diving, hiking etc.) activities tho? I don't think Arabs should be Sabah's target. Europe, ANZ, US/Canada etc. are better target markets for Sabah. And US State Department has updated east coast Sabah (Sipadan, Sandakan, etc.) to Level 2 (exercise increased level of caution) instead of Level 3 avoid all non-essential travel.

I think QR's Cebu flight is mainly to cater to migrant workers where as Koreans have invested a lot in Cebu as well. I was surprised to see so many Koreans in Cebu and surrounding islands.

I am curious - where is the second runway supposed to be? Directly parallel and adjacent to the current one?

According to the original SZB reserve land, second runway is parallel to and in north east of current runway.

Believe most pakistani, afghan, iraqi, etc visit Sabah for employment and migration purpose.

Edited by KK Lee

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I believe the current KKIA has issue on the terminal, eg: arrival immigration area (flooded when I withnessed 5 KL planes arrived within 30 minutes due to delays), no crowd at within Sabah arrival/departure, and ATR departure zone at far end.

Single runway actually can handle many many planes and the runway length is sufficient for everything else.Widebody planes are limited also but KKIA can park max 5 planes.

btw, i also like the current location whereby i can thake less than RM10 grab car to the city centre at night... 

318230415_1609875736137004_2197582306665

Edited by prosibu1

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15 hours ago, prosibu1 said:

I believe the current KKIA has issue on the terminal, eg: arrival immigration area (flooded when I withnessed 5 KL planes arrived within 30 minutes due to delays), no crowd at within Sabah arrival/departure, and ATR departure zone at far end.

Nothing is stopping you from walking down the "Sabah arrivals" exit if you do not have bags checked and off you go  😛 Leaving Sabah tho will be a different matter.

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17 hours ago, prosibu1 said:

I believe the current KKIA has issue on the terminal, eg: arrival immigration area (flooded when I withnessed 5 KL planes arrived within 30 minutes due to delays), no crowd at within Sabah arrival/departure, and ATR departure zone at far end.

Single runway actually can handle many many planes and the runway length is sufficient for everything else.Widebody planes are limited also but KKIA can park max 5 planes.

btw, i also like the current location whereby i can thake less than RM10 grab car to the city centre at night... 

318230415_1609875736137004_2197582306665

True. 1 thing I like about KKIA is due to its close proximity to the city center. If they decided to build a new airport for KK, they should find a new location not too far from the city center. 20km should be acceptable but not a 50km or 1 hour drive away. But judging from the current situation, there is no requirement to build a new one. As some people here already mentioned, Bali and Phuket are more popular destinations yet no new airport were built to cater the increased of tourists arrivals. The current airport can be expanded with additional terminal.

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I agree that there is room for expansion in the current airport. The whole reason for moving it is to allow cronies to get a share of the pie…unfortunately this is what motivates people in Malaysia 

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13 hours ago, BC Tam said:

https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2023/10/11/kk-airport-expansion-on-the-cards-says-loke/?fbclid=IwAR0-zQ7IuTnZZ26N7IgztSC3I-lF1cnv3lYJuMnbHoos1MlL_A6oK8SMXqc

image.png

(thanks to post at the 'other' forum) 😀

So probably safe to assume relocation of kkia is off the table for the forseeable future 

From what i gather Kimanis may only be a thing after 2035 that also maybe 60% of the size of what it is originally proposed. Manila relocation itself took 6 years that excludes any potential delays or hiccups. Qazanah's private airport project also solely depends on the states infrastructure readiness. Currently electricity output of the state is not even half of Sarawak's with potential mitigation plans only ready by late 2027.

Looks like Federal is putting in stop gap measures for current BKI site seeing how kimanis will likely be decades away.

Edited by jahur

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Looks like masterplan to expand BKI's current location is also in play.
Same company handling KBR's current expansion and upcoming PEN. Also note TWU is also on their masterplan.

BKI

Screenshot_2023-12-06_083744.png

TWU

Screenshot 2023-12-06 083017.pngScreenshot_2023-12-06_083040.png

KBR

Screenshot 2023-12-06 083342.png

PEN

Screenshot 2023-12-06 083134.png


MAHB Airport Masterplans For Penang, Kota Kinabalu, Tawau

 

Edited by jahur

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23 minutes ago, kandiah k said:

Interesting but has anyone heard anything about the new KUA airport?

The actual location is nearer to Cherating, rather than Gebeng itself. It will be connected with ECRL Cherating stop. A huge aetropolis city development undertaken by Pahang government.

Quote

THE new Kuantan International Airport, which will be part of the Pahang Aerospace City, is expected to be operational in 2026.

Pahang Mentri Besar Datuk Seri Wan Rosdy Wan Ismail said the high-impact RM2bil development project in Gebeng would replace the existing Sultan Haji Ahmad Shah Airport and support the Third National Physical Plan as a national transit development city (sea, air and land) in an integrated manner.

“This project was planned at the end of 2019 and received the approval of the 39th National Physical Planning Council chaired by the Prime Minister last Oct 21.

The Kuantan International Airport MOU was signed by Pahang Corporation Sdn Bhd chief executive officer Datuk Mohd Khusaini Harumaini, Gading Group Bhd executive chairman Datuk Seri Johari Harun representing the main developer and AVIC International head of delegation to Malaysia Zhuo Yue, representing the strategic partner.

For the mixed development of Aerospace City, the MOU was signed by Johari for the main developer and Syabas Seribumi Sdn Bhd director Mohamad Nor Hamid, for the strategic partner. https://www.thestar.com.my/metro/metro-news/2022/07/12/kuantans-new-international-airport-to-open-in-2026

No photo description available.

No photo description available.

Gebeng-4.jpeg

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How many people actually fly to KUA? There maybe an occasional flight from PEN, SIN but that's about it? I'd take a guess that MH's KUL-KUA are mostly connecting pax?

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12 minutes ago, Kee Hooi Yen said:

It makes me wonder have they done the proper business case study, especially for project this scale. Hope not another white elephant in making.

Based on pax traffic, only PEN and BKI expansions are justified. 

Is the old KUA airport to become a military base or is it going to be taken over by some greedy developer?

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