KLIA Topics - Master thread needed?

[KK Lee 5]

Don't think anyone is proud or happy with how bus queue is organised at satellite terminal.

 

[KK Lee 5]

On 3/12/2024 at 8:39 PM, Craig said:

Mavcom is taking a regressive step towards standardizing PSC at airports around Malaysia.. Mavcom is splitting KUL T1 and T2's PSC into 2 tiers again beginning 1 June 2024. KUL T1 will incur RM73 for all international flights where as KUL T2 + all other airports (except JHB) will incur RM50 for all flights (ASEAN or outside ASEAN will share the same PSC). Departure from JHB will incur RM16 for domestic and RM50 for international. 

It appears that MH will be the biggest loser here. Departure levy is charged based on first international destination (SQ, TG etc. will have lower departure levy compared to MH for say a KUL-LHR/HKG route) and PSC will be much higher for MH than AK/D7 ex-KUL. 

They should have grouped it as KUL (T1 & T2) and non-KUL. Out the door MH is already at a disadvantage of RM27 for all ex-KUL pax and RM13 for all transfer pax at KUL.

HND Passenger Service Facilities Charge is JPY2,950 about RM93. 

https://tokyo-haneda.com/site_resource/flight/pdf/psfc_int_en.pdf

 

[jani 0]

Which is about 30% higher than KUL.. or otherwise almost 100% higher if you count ASEAN, which I imagine is significant bulk of traffic.

[Robert 0]

This popped up on my FB feed today. My perception is that every other year they talk about upgrading in the press and then it goes quiet. 

Personally Im finding that the performance has been ok for the past 4+ months although I get priority baggage with MH.

[JuliusWong 0]

Skyscam 2024 Best Airport list is published. KLIA slipped further from 67th in 2023 to 71st in 2024.

World’s best airports in 2024 ranking:

1. Hamad International Airport
2. Singapore Changi Airport
3. Incheon International Airport
4. Haneda Airport
5. Narita International Airport
6. Paris Charles de Gaulle Airport 
7. Dubai International Airport
8. Munich International Airport
9. Zurich International Airport
10. Istanbul International Airport

Source: https://www.worldairportawards.com/worlds-top-100-airports-2024/

[KK Lee 5]

13 hours ago, JuliusWong said:

Skyscam 2024 Best Airport list is published. KLIA slipped further from 67th in 2023 to 71st in 2024.

World’s best airports in 2024 ranking:

1. Hamad International Airport
2. Singapore Changi Airport
3. Incheon International Airport
4. Haneda Airport
5. Narita International Airport
6. Paris Charles de Gaulle Airport 
7. Dubai International Airport
8. Munich International Airport
9. Zurich International Airport
10. Istanbul International Airport

Source: https://www.worldairportawards.com/worlds-top-100-airports-2024/

Klia was among top 5 a few decades ago, has been regression like our country

[Robert 0]

3 hours ago, KK Lee said:

Klia was among top 5 a few decades ago, has been regression like our country

I think there are 3 things dragging it down based on conversations with friends and colleagues.
1. Aerotrain replacement buses 
2. Immigration queues
3. Just about everything in KLIA 2

The latter is a terrible terminal and unless it's made a separate airport it will forever drag down KLIA down the down the rankings. 

[Craig 0]

Maybe quite far down on the list of things they need to fix but one of my pet peeves is that they display cities/airport arbitrarily on their FIDS. LHR is "London", KIX is "Kansai", NRT is "Narita", TFU is "Tianfu", BKK is "Bangkok" where as DMK is "Don Mueang" etc (and your passport stamp will say Bangkok Intl Airport for DMK and Suvarnabhumi Airport for BKK). It'd be nice if they display it something like London-Heathrow, Tokyo-Narita, Chengdu-Tianfu etc. Not all travelers are familiar with airport names.

[KK Lee 5]

On 4/20/2024 at 11:04 AM, Robert said:

I think there are 3 things dragging it down based on conversations with friends and colleagues.
1. Aerotrain replacement buses 
2. Immigration queues
3. Just about everything in KLIA 2

The latter is a terrible terminal and unless it's made a separate airport it will forever drag down KLIA down the down the rankings. 

KUL T2 was designed and built to be inferior and more inconvenience than T1.

 

20 hours ago, Craig said:

Maybe quite far down on the list of things they need to fix but one of my pet peeves is that they display cities/airport arbitrarily on their FIDS. LHR is "London", KIX is "Kansai", NRT is "Narita", TFU is "Tianfu", BKK is "Bangkok" where as DMK is "Don Mueang" etc (and your passport stamp will say Bangkok Intl Airport for DMK and Suvarnabhumi Airport for BKK). It'd be nice if they display it something like London-Heathrow, Tokyo-Narita, Chengdu-Tianfu etc. Not all travelers are familiar with airport names.

Typical of GLC management, they don't consider from customers point of view.

 

[KK Lee 5]

On 4/19/2024 at 2:12 PM, Robert said:

This popped up on my FB feed today. My perception is that every other year they talk about upgrading in the press and then it goes quiet. 

Personally Im finding that the performance has been ok for the past 4+ months although I get priority baggage with MH.

Guess they increase the conveyor speed from MTB to satellite terminal and vv.

[kandiah k 0]

Terminal 1 is surely in a mess with incompetent planning and people manning it too. I recently flew back twice from an international flight and there was a 'mini brawl' at the queue to take the bus to the MTB. People were cutting the lines and no proper instructions from the "Ask Me" Staff. Eventually all passenger boarded the bus, albeit a tired set of passengers. It is no wonder they are ranked 71st and keeps slipping away. Jaguh kampung managing and manning it, what else can you expect; and yet, MAHB makes profit year in year out with abysmal services at their main gateway. As for Terminal 2, it is expected to have the least of excellent services yet they meet better standards than that of Terminal 1. Oh well 😂

[Robert 0]

54 minutes ago, kandiah k said:

Terminal 1 is surely in a mess with incompetent planning and people manning it too. I recently flew back twice from an international flight and there was a 'mini brawl' at the queue to take the bus to the MTB. People were cutting the lines and no proper instructions from the "Ask Me" Staff. Eventually all passenger boarded the bus, albeit a tired set of passengers. It is no wonder they are ranked 71st and keeps slipping away. Jaguh kampung managing and manning it, what else can you expect; and yet, MAHB makes profit year in year out with abysmal services at their main gateway. As for Terminal 2, it is expected to have the least of excellent services yet they meet better standards than that of Terminal 1. Oh well 😂

Personally I don't think T1 is that bad. Yes the bus can be a pain but other times its not really much if an issue. KLIA seldom uses remote gates but other airports do and I generally dislike a cramped bus ride to a remote stand and then dealing with the stairs.

My issue with T2 is the general poor design and finishing.
Walkways are too narrow, compounded by the fitting of travelators 
Gate waiting areas are too small and narrow
Ramps to the air bridges are too narrow and just depressing
Far too much walking with a lot of up and down secretions
Taxi pick up area is a shambles 
If you have a trolley you need to queue for a lift to get to the taxi area. The lift is badly signposted
Walls are full of scuff marks
Security queues are usually very slow when I travel there
When you exit there is a ramp. What didn't they build it on teh same level
Crappy airconditioning 
Confusing arrival immigration hall
People sitting/sleeping on the floor before you get arrival immigration
The list could go on and on. 

Personally I cannot understand how somebody came up with this design and whichd10t approved it. 

[Craig 0]

3 hours ago, KK Lee said:

KUL T2 was designed and built to be inferior and more inconvenience than T1.

They can build something inferior. No granite floor tiles, no high ceilings etc. but does not cause any inconvenience to passengers. Having to walk through a shopping center to get to check in desks whilst carrying all your luggage is plain dumb. Passenger flow is just not there. 

47 minutes ago, Robert said:

Personally I don't think T1 is that bad. Yes the bus can be a pain but other times its not really much if an issue. KLIA seldom uses remote gates but other airports do and I generally dislike a cramped bus ride to a remote stand and then dealing with the stairs.

My issue with T2 is the general poor design and finishing.
Walkways are too narrow, compounded by the fitting of travelators 
Gate waiting areas are too small and narrow
Ramps to the air bridges are too narrow and just depressing
Far too much walking with a lot of up and down secretions
Taxi pick up area is a shambles 
If you have a trolley you need to queue for a lift to get to the taxi area. The lift is badly signposted
Walls are full of scuff marks
Security queues are usually very slow when I travel there
When you exit there is a ramp. What didn't they build it on teh same level
Crappy airconditioning 
Confusing arrival immigration hall
People sitting/sleeping on the floor before you get arrival immigration
The list could go on and on. 

Personally I cannot understand how somebody came up with this design and whichd10t approved it. 

Same. Other than the bus, I don't think T1 is bad. It flows nicely. You only have to go down the escalator once for either domestic or international departures from check in to gate and down the escalator once for international arrivals from gate to meet & greet area. One thing I would say is poorly designed is the C/Satellite concourse. All the airline lounges are on the 2nd level and passengers will have to find the obscure lifts/escalators and take it up a floor (MH's lounge is even worse where you have to do quite a big u-turn). You never really have to walk far for gates at T1. Longest walk is probably G10 to H10 if you are on a transit and that's maybe 1 km?  Even from check-in to C27 is not that bad of a walk. Train station is just below where you exit the sterile area or just before check-in. 

T1 was designed by a world-renowed architect (Kisho Kurokawa).T2 was designed by well, the same company that brought you Paradigm Mall in Kelana Jaya. Same confusing layout, parking that doesn't work, lifts and escalators that are not conducive to people flow. And the best part is? They will be the one redesigning the re-construction of Subang Airport.

T2 lounges (IIRC, only they only have PPL in T2) is located in the shopping center itself. Passengers have to lug their bags through the whole complex and check-in, and then go back to the shopping center with slow incline escalators instead of those steps but shorter escalators (there are step escalators but you have to find it and it's not the most easy place to find them). If I read MAHB's report correctly, YTD (Jan-Feb. 2024), T1 handled 4,885k pax where as T2 handled 4,117k pax. But if you are on the ground at the airport, it always feel like T2 is busier and more chaotic. I'd like to think bad design contributes to part of it. T1 whilst busier just looks calmer and more serene.

Edited April 21 by Craig

[Robert 0]

18 hours ago, Craig said:

They can build something inferior. No granite floor tiles, no high ceilings etc. but does not cause any inconvenience to passengers. Having to walk through a shopping center to get to check in desks whilst carrying all your luggage is plain dumb. Passenger flow is just not there. 

Same. Other than the bus, I don't think T1 is bad. It flows nicely. You only have to go down the escalator once for either domestic or international departures from check in to gate and down the escalator once for international arrivals from gate to meet & greet area. One thing I would say is poorly designed is the C/Satellite concourse. All the airline lounges are on the 2nd level and passengers will have to find the obscure lifts/escalators and take it up a floor (MH's lounge is even worse where you have to do quite a big u-turn). You never really have to walk far for gates at T1. Longest walk is probably G10 to H10 if you are on a transit and that's maybe 1 km?  Even from check-in to C27 is not that bad of a walk. Train station is just below where you exit the sterile area or just before check-in. 

T1 was designed by a world-renowed architect (Kisho Kurokawa).T2 was designed by well, the same company that brought you Paradigm Mall in Kelana Jaya. Same confusing layout, parking that doesn't work, lifts and escalators that are not conducive to people flow. And the best part is? They will be the one redesigning the re-construction of Subang Airport.

T2 lounges (IIRC, only they only have PPL in T2) is located in the shopping center itself. Passengers have to lug their bags through the whole complex and check-in, and then go back to the shopping center with slow incline escalators instead of those steps but shorter escalators (there are step escalators but you have to find it and it's not the most easy place to find them). If I read MAHB's report correctly, YTD (Jan-Feb. 2024), T1 handled 4,885k pax where as T2 handled 4,117k pax. But if you are on the ground at the airport, it always feel like T2 is busier and more chaotic. I'd like to think bad design contributes to part of it. T1 whilst busier just looks calmer and more serene.

Agree with you. 
T1 doesn't seem to have been built with retail and F&B in mind because the airside unit spaces are generally quite small. If the aero train was working then most of the T1 noise would go.
Not sure how they can fix T2 without knocking king it down. 
 

[KK Lee 5]

KUL T2 is the place to learn what airport terminal not to be.

[flee 5]

On 4/22/2024 at 8:41 AM, Robert said:

T1 doesn't seem to have been built with retail and F&B in mind because the airside unit spaces are generally quite small. If the aero train was working then most of the T1 noise would go.
Not sure how they can fix T2 without knocking king it down. 
 

Well the lack of future plans does not augur well for T1 - it looks like they are just managing from one crisis to another. I guess they always need another emergency before taking action. There isn't much in the way of forward thinking about capacity expansion or service quality improvements.

1 hour ago, KK Lee said:

KUL T2 is the place to learn what airport terminal not to be.

When decisions are made for political expediency, this is what you get.

Having said that, T2 is still a big improvement over LCCT. But that doesn't mean much as LCCT is a very low baseline.

[jani 0]

To be honest I think LCCT is better. Because you know what you are getting. It was built for LCC.

T2 - What exactly is it? It's not really low cost, but all the features are striped away. It's poorly built, ugly, and the design and flow is freaking terrible. Don't even get me started on immigration...

We really had a big opportunity to build something right to cater for the LCC boom but failed spectacularly.

[KK Lee 5]

Zero luggage lost: Japan's Kansai Airport keeps 30-year record going

....

Lost bags typically occur through staff failure to load them at the departure airport or errors in transferring them at connecting airports. According to SITA, an aviation-related system developer based in Switzerland, the world's airline companies mishandled an average 7.6 pieces of baggage per 1,000 passengers in 2022.

But at Kansai Airport, no baggage has been lost due to causes attributable to the airport operator in the 30 years since its opening. The airport handled about 10 million baggage items in fiscal 2023.

....

To save passengers from stress, CKTS has a goal of getting bags to the baggage claim area within 15 minutes after an aircraft arrives. Staffers place suitcases on conveyor belts so their handles will face toward passengers, easily picked up. They hand over damage-prone items like musical instruments, strollers and skis directly to passengers. Their careful treatment of baggage extends to things like wiping suitcases dry if they get wet in the rain.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Transportation/Zero-luggage-lost-Japan-s-Kansai-Airport-keeps-30-year-record-going

MAHB has much to learn from CKTS.

 

[JuliusWong 0]

1 hour ago, jani said:

To be honest I think LCCT is better. Because you know what you are getting. It was built for LCC.

T2 - What exactly is it? It's not really low cost, but all the features are striped away. It's poorly built, ugly, and the design and flow is freaking terrible. Don't even get me started on immigration...

We really had a big opportunity to build something right to cater for the LCC boom but failed spectacularly.

That was why TF was pissed off with MAHB and wanted to build his own airport. While TF is not a saint himself, he and his company did gave a lot of feedback on the airport to be simple and thrifty to ensure easy and continuous passengers flow. Afterall, they are the main airline using the terminal. Remember the flooding at the parking apron and sinking issue? Their justification for having the mall before the check in area was the mall space lease will offset the operating cost of running the airport. What bullshit and to be more OKU friendly, another bullshit again. The current Terminal 2 is no way better than the previous LCCT for OKU travelers with all the escalators and down. God forbid if your flight is at Gate P & Q. Memang bodoh sombong....

MAHB should take a leaf from Changi Terminal 4. Simple, easy as you can do with an international airport. I miss LCCT.....especially smelling the Jet-A1 fuel! Haha!

Anything Pavilion and WCT touch will crumble. I am so NOT looking forward to what they will cook up for SZB. Malton AKA Pavilion is the partial shareholder of WCT. 

Oh ya, these signs:

Edited Monday at 06:39 AM by JuliusWong

[JonathanFong 0]

^^ I remember when T2 first opened, some of the gate directional signage on the walls were actually thin plastic/polystyrene panels. If you took a closer look at them, you can see it starting to peel. IMO T2 needs a rebuild, it just seems too flawed to retrofit further.

[Robert 0]

1 hour ago, JonathanFong said:

^^ I remember when T2 first opened, some of the gate directional signage on the walls were actually thin plastic/polystyrene panels. If you took a closer look at them, you can see it starting to peel. IMO T2 needs a rebuild, it just seems too flawed to retrofit further.

Its too busy to close 

[Craig 0]

20 hours ago, jani said:

To be honest I think LCCT is better. Because you know what you are getting. It was built for LCC.

Will you be saying the same with what Capital A group has become since they left LCCT? I don't even know if that area is large enough to accommodate all of AK Group, let alone Scoot, Jetstar etc. Can you imagine immigration in that tiny little shed? And what happens when there's a thunderstorm? No one should be allowed outside during a thunderstorm (including ramp staff). 

19 hours ago, JuliusWong said:

That was why TF was pissed off with MAHB and wanted to build his own airport.

Please don't listen to a businessperson or a politician. And where would he get the money or approval to fund "an airport" which will include runway(s), ATC, and the whole nine yards. I remember he was adamant about not using aerobridge. I disagree with him on this. They should use aerobridge. If he's fine using it in DMK and other airports, he should be fine using it here. MAHB shouldn't build a terminal/airport catering to the need of 1 airline even tho they are the main tenant. 

But WCT is not the best contractor. Their plan is always to maximize retail instead of flow of passengers. I don't even know if they are an architecture firm. Their escalators are scattered all over to maximize pedestrian flow inside the mall instead of creating convenience to passengers.

11 hours ago, JonathanFong said:

^^ I remember when T2 first opened, some of the gate directional signage on the walls were actually thin plastic/polystyrene panels. If you took a closer look at them, you can see it starting to peel. IMO T2 needs a rebuild, it just seems too flawed to retrofit further.

The original plan for T2 was a mirror image of current T1 with a total of 4 satellites (2 each on each terminal). That was supposed to be good for up to 100 million pax when it was first designed. But of course, that was designed before Air Asia. T2 is too late to be saved. What can be saved now is the Subang Airport. They haven't rebuild anything yet and based on the rendering, it appears to be another KUL T2 in the making. 

WCT can build a mall in the airport. But build it after security/immigration. Most travelers arrive at the airport between 1 and 3 hours before flight. And if I haven't cleared immigration and security, I wouldn't dream of going to a mall because I don't know how long that's going to take. So most people would want to check in, clear immigration and security and then hang inside the secure area. But T2 is completely opposite. There's almost nothing inside. Everything is in landside. 

[jahur 0]

Indonesia's Ruang volcano erupts again, alert status at highest

Quote

JAKARTA, April 30 (Reuters) - Indonesia's Ruang volcano off the island of Sulawesi erupted on Tuesday, spewing ash and lava, after an eruption earlier this month led to hundreds of evacuations and an airport closure.

The country's Center for Volcanology and Geological Hazard Mitigation (PVMBG) raised the alert level to the highest following the morning eruption, urging residents not to get near the volcano, according to its website.

Another potential disruption. Those traveling to east Msia soon should plan ahead.

 

[BC Tam 2]

3 hours ago, jahur said:

Indonesia's Ruang volcano erupts again, alert status at highest

Another potential disruption. Those traveling to east Msia soon should plan ahead.

 

Oh my gosh, and we're anticipating the Chinese labour day holiday rush over next few days/weeks 🤦‍♂️

Understand they are also doing direct charters into TWU as well 😑

[jahur 0]

8 hours ago, BC Tam said:

Oh my gosh, and we're anticipating the Chinese labour day holiday rush over next few days/weeks 🤦‍♂️

Understand they are also doing direct charters into TWU as well 😑

Am already seeing some TWU bound flights cancelled and diverted meanwhile some SDK ones have started to cancel out tomorrow. BKI does not seem to be affected for now.