Accident: Asiana B772 at San Francisco on Jul 6th 2013

[Isaac 0]

Its more like.. when it's your time to "go".. then that's it.. its fate.. so.. if you gotta fly.. you gotta fly irregardless of the airline/aircraft..

You are spot on mate!

 

 

actually cant really say that OZ is really such a "safe" airline as in the past it had crashed a 737 and a 747F and all crew and pax were killed - and this would make it its 3rd aircraft crash.

It still is one of the safest airlines in the world, considering the 737 crash happened 20 years ago. And the 747F crash was due to fire in the cargo hold.

 

 

And yes the CPT of SQ 006 which crashed as a result of taking off from a closed runway - is flying AK now.

That's news! I seriously thought his flying career was over then. But i think since he screwed up so badly then, the probability for him to screw up again is almost close to 0 and he probably is far more cautious than most pilots now.

 

By the way, a few Chinese media outlets (Phoenix, CCTV) were reporting the captain of OZ214, the one responsible for the landing was an inexperience pilot, that the company he works with just transferred him to 777 from another aircraft type with no training (LOL). Tons of inaccurate information were reported. One is better off looking for the latest updates on A.net.

[S V Choong 4]

Extremely normal all over the world.

 

Even for two inexperienced crew??

 

Its more like.. when it's your time to "go".. then that's it.. its fate.. so.. if you gotta fly.. you gotta fly irregardless of the airline/aircraft..

 

Fancy China Airlines?

[Mohd Suhaimi Fariz 2]

That's news! I seriously thought his flying career was over then. But i think since he screwed up so badly then, the probability for him to screw up again is almost close to 0 and he probably is far more cautious than most pilots now.

I've read somewhere that the FO is also with AK now.

 

I have no qualms about flying with the SQ006 captain - the odds of anybody being involved in two plane crashes is miniscule.

[Isaac 0]

Even for two inexperienced crew??

Inexperience as in ? The captain has been flying for the company for many years. While the captain is more senior, the F/O has actually accumulated more flying hours on the 777. Captain Foong Chee Kong was a very experienced pilot when he crashed SQ6

 

Anyway, on the first or second OZ214 thread on A.net, a few pilots working for US carriers have said it publicly that such practice is indeed common and definitely legal in the US. It is also common that an F/O may have clocked more flying hours on a particular aircraft type than the captain.

 

I have no qualms about flying with the SQ006 captain - the odds of anybody being involved in two plane crashes is miniscule.

True.

[Aaron Goh 1]

 

It is said that the cockpit crews of the fateful flight were new to the type (B777), which were transferred from B744.

 

Is that normal though? It is the practice which I am worried about.

It is normal sir. Every pilot can be be transfered to another ac type in their lifetime some more than otherssame goes for capts n FOs. Give you an insight how this is done. AC type change can be due to variety of reasons, upgrade, company ac change/ retirement, movement, change of jobs etc etc. When a pilot change for an ac type he is flying to another type, firstly he will attend some induction course ground classes performance classes etc whichever way as stated in that company's training guidelines. After that is off to the simulator to get familirize with buttons and switches procedures and handling the ac. Once thats all done the pilot would move on to flying the real plane. Thats where he gets his first hour. He AC type. Some call it line training some call it OE etc same thing. This is to let the pilot fly the AC and get used tothe characteristics of the new type. Diff companies have different training guidelines some longer sone shortee and this is done on actual revenue flight. On training flights like this the pilot will be flying it under the instruction of an instructor. A training capt aka QFI TRI TRE LIP whatever the terms are basically means a training capt who is qualified to train another pilot. After a certain time frame and lotsa checks and assessment the trained pilot would then go on and fly solo aka no more under trining. Thats how everyone obtain their first hour. In asiana case its the same just that the pilot flying had transitioned and was under traing and on the RHS was his instructor. Bear in mind its not 2 ineperienced crew, to be an instructor a pilot has to obtain certain experience to qualify to instruct. So as to asiana experience definitely not an issue.

On a seperate note, my 2 cents worth maybe they had use FLCH to get down and the first FMA on the left says hold below 100ft theresno stall protection. But to even get to the point of having use FLCH at that point in time, there has to be violations of a stabilized criteria way before the crash happened. Sandeep betul ka

 

Some ppl out there are bashing asian crew for having inadequate manual flying skills. As i see this case its probably a matter of not understanding the automatics.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Aaron Goh

[Philip 1]

I've read somewhere that the FO is also with AK now.

 

I have no qualms about flying with the SQ006 captain - the odds of anybody being involved in two plane crashes is miniscule.

 

It is true - the FO is flying with AK as an FO now.

 

With regards to the SQ006 capt, after seeing this post, I just checked his name and realized that I have actually flown with him - TWICE - without realizing his history The most recent being just three days ago. If I didn't specifically see his name connected with the accident, I wouldn't have guessed it.

[S V Choong 4]

Sorry let me clarify, what i actually meant by 'inexperience' is actually unfamiliar with the type. Seems both are new to the type. I know it is very common for pilots to switch types. Even in MWings, our pilot friends here have switched types. So he can guide the less experienced one or take immediate action to correct the error that may arise, such as this incident.

 

Wouldn't it be a logical thing to do is to get a pilot who are rather familiar with the type to be sitting next to ine that is less familiar with the type or one that is transferred from another type?

 

Thanks Aaron, will read your post in full later on.

Edited July 10, 2013 by S V Choong

[Sandeep G 1]

Aaron, betul!

The speed had washed off to 103KIAS as now mentioned by NTSB... I believe all this must have happened above and in close vicinity to 100ft... He must have been holding back the thrust levers and not allowing them to advance? However, both pilots Instructor and PIC (not sure about PM) have claimed that they advanced thrust levers to full... Too little too late perhaps..

[Alif A. F. 0]

Reminds me of a photo taken many years back and stored in A.net. Here is the photo description and the link to the photo:

 

"Both pilots already seated in their seats. You'd be surprise to see what speed was entered in the IAS autothrottle field on the a/p panel on the last landing (ILS Rwy 04). But I do not believe they actually approach at such speeds!"

 

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Malaysia-Airlines/Boeing-777-2H6-ER/0375723/L/&sid=2c2b5a42cc7964f0ad3504fcfc7c8076

[Aaron Goh 1]

Sandeep

Yalor perhaps too late to apply toga, appr idle to toga needs bout 8 seconds which they didnt have very sad. There must have been other violations that led to that, how many times in flying career does the left fma reads hold during final appr? None rite now back to vol 2 read up more on automatics haha

 

Mr choong

The instructor is an experienced 777 capt thats why he s an instructor

[Isaac 0]

It is true - the FO is flying with AK as an FO now.

 

With regards to the SQ006 capt, after seeing this post, I just checked his name and realized that I have actually flown with him - TWICE - without realizing his history The most recent being just three days ago. If I didn't specifically see his name connected with the accident, I wouldn't have guessed it.

Is he a captain at AK now ?

 

 

Sorry let me clarify, what i actually meant by 'inexperience' is actually unfamiliar with the type. Seems both are new to the type. I know it is very common for pilots to switch types. Even in MWings, our pilot friends here have switched types. So he can guide the less experienced one or take immediate action to correct the error that may arise, such as this incident.

 

Wouldn't it be a logical thing to do is to get a pilot who are rather familiar with the type to be sitting next to ine that is less familiar with the type or one that is transferred from another type?

There were four pilots on that flight and as Aaron Goh said, an instructor was onboard thus he is very experienced.

[Isaac 0]

Actually not two but four people were ejected from the plane. Two Chinese girls from Zhejiang province whom unfortunately did not make it and two flight attendants (picture above).

 

Two Asiana Airline Flight Attendants Thrown from Plane During Crash

http://abcnews.go.com/US/asiana-airline-flight-attendants-thrown-plane-crash/storynew?id=19612810#.Udzf8vnIvlc

 

 

Stories of bravery emerge from Asiana Airlines crash

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/09/stories-bravery-asiana-airlines-crash

[S V Choong 4]

Sandeep

Yalor perhaps too late to apply toga, appr idle to toga needs bout 8 seconds which they didnt have very sad. There must have been other violations that led to that, how many times in flying career does the left fma reads hold during final appr? None rite now back to vol 2 read up more on automatics haha

 

Mr choong

The instructor is an experienced 777 capt thats why he s an instructor

 

Thanks, just finished reading your earlier post. Thanks for the insightful information.

 

Heard they are talking about the switching off the computer, is that normal too?

 

What's with SFO? Don't they have ILS?

[Aaron Goh 1]

 

Thanks, just finished reading your earlier post. Thanks for the insightful information.

 

Heard they are talking about the switching off the computer, is that normal too?

 

What's with SFO? Don't they have ILS?

SFO has ILS but not recently cos they are undergoing construction work, thus glidepath was removed. Localizer still available though. However, Evrn on other days when ILS is available in SFO, ATC will only clear AC for a visual app. Vis app procedure can remove atc responsibility of traffic separation. Many times asking AC to spot another traffic and thats quite a task after a long flight trying to spot an EMB 190 while turning base, but ils still used by crew.

[Naim 6]

RT @ReutersUS: Graphic: the flight path of Asiana Flight 214 ...

 

[Kee Hooi Yen 0]

Sorry for the off-topic :

Just watched the movie "Flight" (by Denzel Washington) last night. The movie is about a heavy drinker pilot involves in a plane crash that caused by a mechanical problem. His exceptional skill to crash land the plane indeed saves many lives onboard. However, the authority finds out that there is drug and alcohol in his toxicology report after the crash. He was charged and imprisoned eventually.

 

Now my question : Is there any regular drug and alcohol tests carried out to pilots ? There are traffic policemen perform random breath testings to drivers on the road, but how about pilots ?

 

I know there are some workplaces (eg. Rail jobs, mining sites) in Australia where practise zero tolerance on alcohol, everyday each individual is breath tested before entering the worksite. This is on top of the regular (bi-monthly or quarterly) drug and alcohol test (Urine tests) .

My opinion is that flight crews should be at least breath tested for each flight. What do you think ?

[Sandeep G 1]

In Australia, there are regular Drug Alcohol Tests under an initiative known as DAMP.,Other countries perform random checks on crew credentials (license and medical) and toxicity levels.

[Sandeep G 1]

Actually... just got thinking... If they were in FLCH, looking at the graphics from Naim's post above... I wonder what Asiana's policy regarding the speedbrake extension is?? The high on profile situation combined with their desire to get down... could be that the speedbrakes were extended out for additional descent rate... the sudden and quick wash off of speed could be explained by the speedbrakes being extended.. "SPEEDBRAKES EXTENDED" EICAS Caution should have been activated, but the crew may have disregarded this as they had knowingly extended it to recapture profile below 800 ft R.A. and subsequently were then distracted by the lateral deviation of the approach. The quick speed loss and attempt to go-around by pushing the thrust levers full forward where then futile, and it also explains the high pitch of the aircraft. Last minute recognition of the speedbrake extended may have prompted someone to stow it rapidly to down - hence a possible explanation as to why they are not extended post crash - would be interesting to see the position of the speedbrake lever in the cockpit.

[JuliusWong 0]

AFP confirms that one of the two girls who died in the crash was run over by an emergency vehicle. God bless! She died a violent death. RIP.

It is definitely normal, as some pilot may want to upgrade themselves to higher tier widebody or even downgrade to narrowbody. Imagine you are stuck with B737 or A320 for rest of you life.....You won't enjoy much of your job at all.

[Mohd Suhaimi Fariz 2]

AFP confirms that one of the two girls who died in the crash was run over by an emergency vehicle. God bless! She died a violent death. RIP.

 

This is really sad & shocking - she could have been be alive if the emergency vehicle didn't run over her!

[Isaac 0]

AFP confirms that one of the two girls who died in the crash was run over by an emergency vehicle. God bless! She died a violent death. RIP.

Good Lord!

[Mike P 0]

So they are going to conclude their death as accident?

[David.W 0]

AFP confirms that one of the two girls who died in the crash was run over by an emergency vehicle. God bless! She died a violent death. RIP.

 

It is definitely normal, as some pilot may want to upgrade themselves to higher tier widebody or even downgrade to narrowbody. Imagine you are stuck with B737 or A320 for rest of you life.....You won't enjoy much of your job at all.

Probably the first ever death from a rescue vehicle? But I find it hard to understand how she could get run over maybe in the rush to get to the site the driver was just not even looking at what he is driving towards and wonder if the driver would get charged for manslaughter?

 

Also it seems evacuation was delayed as passengers were told to remain in their seats...

 

San Francisco crash: passengers had been told to stay on plane

 

Passengers aboard the Asiana Airlines plane that crashed in San Francisco on Saturday were initially told not to evacuate the aircraft after it skidded to a halt on the runway, a federal safety official said on Wednesday.

But a flight attendant saw fire outside the plane and the call to exit was made, 90 seconds after the crash, according to Deborah Hersman, who chairs the national transportation safety board (NTSB. The first emergency response vehicles arrived 30 seconds later.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/11/san-francisco-plane-crash-asiana-airlines-boeing-777

Edited July 11, 2013 by Tan Hao Ming

[S V Choong 4]

 

Actually not two but four people were ejected from the plane. Two Chinese girls from Zhejiang province whom unfortunately did not make it and two flight attendants (picture above).

 

 

 

 

So the two flight attendants who had been ejected from the plane did not make it either? Does this make the total death to 4 now?

[leon t 0]

No the twoflight attendents who were ejected from the plane made it and had some injuries but news showed one of them in a wheelchair about to board a plane home. The 3 pilots on board were experienced :

Crew Experience - Pilot Flying

Hired by Asiana in 1994

9,700 hours total flight time

5,000 hours as PIC

Type ratings: A320, B737, B747, B777

A320 Captain from 2005-2013

Ground School Instructor: A320

Simulator Instructor: A320

Crew Experience - Check-Airman/Instructor Pilot

13,000 hours total flight time

3,000 hours on B777

10,000 hours as PIC

Korean Air Force - 10 years

Accident trip was first trip as an Instructor Pilot

Relief First Officer - Sitting on jumpseat

4,600 hours total flight time

900-1000 hours in B777

Korean Air force - F-5, F-16

5-6 trips to SFO as monitoring pilot