MAS A380 - Fleet to be Retained

[Mohd Azizul Ramli 2]

Was asked to share this one by a friend and a silent reader of the forum.

 

MH couldn't find a home for A380 as D7 already started flying to London & after SQ & EK added more seats & frequencies to Australia. AMS is the only destination for A380 right now. I think MH will reduce no. of A380 from 6 to 3 or 4 & replace it with 6-8 A330.

[KK Lee 5]

Also means KUL/AMS is viable for D7.

 

It seems MH management don’t have the gut/stomach to compete with SQ, EK, EY, AK, D7, etc. As competitors are not sitting still, if MH is shy away from competition, MH will forever be at the losing end and shrinking in size.

 

Edited September 27, 2009 by KK Lee

[Mohd Azizul Ramli 2]

Doubt MH will (indirectly) let D7 being granted the right so easily.

 

Agreed about the shy/slow part. When IJ took over, the BTP1 was announced right away, and MH is very serious about it. Since the new MD/CEO took over, the public has heard nothing concrete about MH's future path. Will it be a 'Toyota' still? Or does it want to compete with the big guys back? Alliance?

[flee 5]

Yes, the D7 STN services are now very popular and they have already stated that the plan is to go double daily to allow people to get around the unsocial flight times, especially those who need to connect to other flights.

 

If MH decides to keep the A380 orders intact, they may need to find some innovative routes or marketing methods to fill the planes.

[Sandeep G 1]

Don't be suprised to see the B738's heading as far away as Perth, Taipei, Delhi, Hyderabad, Bangalore etc etc

 

This aircraft will have a good capacity for boosting frequency to such places in tandem with existing widebody fleet ops.

 

E.g. MH124/125 - KUL-PER vv Ops B772/A333 whilst MH126/127 - KUL-PER Ops B738 (and increase the latter to a daily flight)

 

Not to mention the chance of MAS utilising B738's out of CGK to destinations such as PER or ADL (although ADL might be stretching it).

[Sing Yew 1]

Don't be suprised to see the B738's heading as far away as Perth, Taipei, Delhi, Hyderabad, Bangalore etc etc

 

This aircraft will have a good capacity for boosting frequency to such places in tandem with existing widebody fleet ops.

 

E.g. MH124/125 - KUL-PER vv Ops B772/A333 whilst MH126/127 - KUL-PER Ops B738 (and increase the latter to a daily flight)

 

Not to mention the chance of MAS utilising B738's out of CGK to destinations such as PER or ADL (although ADL might be stretching it).

 

Pacific Blue operates the B738 from DPS into ADL, MEL and SYD I think, so CGK to ADL should be within the range.

[Cheng Long 0]

Don't be suprised to see the B738's heading as far away as Perth, Taipei, Delhi, Hyderabad, Bangalore etc etc

 

This aircraft will have a good capacity for boosting frequency to such places in tandem with existing widebody fleet ops.

 

E.g. MH124/125 - KUL-PER vv Ops B772/A333 whilst MH126/127 - KUL-PER Ops B738 (and increase the latter to a daily flight)

 

Not to mention the chance of MAS utilising B738's out of CGK to destinations such as PER or ADL (although ADL might be stretching it).

 

I favour twice daily KL-Perth flights for better connectivity..

 

But if they are using B738s to Perth, hope they better make sure they have comfortable seats and good leg room. Otherwise customers will look elsewhere..

[Mushrif A 3]

"MAS denies dropping A380 orders.

 

PETALING JAYA, Sept 29 — Malaysian Airline System Bhd (MAS) has no plans to swap the Airbus A380 for smaller wide-body aircraft such as A330 or A350.

 

“We don’t have any conversation with Airbus saying that we don’t want the A380. There is no foundation to the report,” chief executive officer/managing director, Datuk Tengku Azmil Zahruddin, told reporters after the signing of support agreement for CFM engines with CFM International here today.

 

According to the recent Standard & Poor report, MAS has broached the idea of swapping the A380 for smaller wide-body aircraft to avoid up to US$300 million (RM1.05 billion) in penalty if it were to cancel the order.

 

A local English daily, quoting a source familiar with the situation, said MAS recently sent its technical staff to Airbus’ headquarters in Toulouse to evaluate the smaller wide-body aircraft.

 

MAS ordered six A380s in 2003 for delivery in 2011.

 

The A380 is a double-deck, wide-body, four-engine airliner that seats 525 people in a typical three-class configurations or up to 853 people in all-economy class configuration.

 

“We have visited Toulouse to prepare for the arrival of A380s. I think it is good for us to visit our supplier, not only Airbus but also Boeing because there are always things that we need to work together.

 

“It is not unusual at all. We are on scheduled to receive the A380s,” he said.

 

MAS currently operates 14 A330-200/300s with an average age of 13 years.

 

Azmil said the airline industry was expected to see more signs of recovery towards the second half of this year.

 

“We have seen some signs of improvements in the cargo side but not the passenger growth,” he said.

 

The national airline today sealed an agreement with CFM International, which will provide engine support for the carrier’s Boeing 737-800 fleet.

 

Under the agreement, CFM will provide full support, including technical training, engineering and repair, as well as spare parts.

 

MAS will use the new aircraft primarily within the Asean, including domestic Malaysian operations, as well as to Australia, China and India.

 

In 2008, MAS placed 35 firm and 20 optional orders for the aircraft with delivery commencing in fourth quarter of 2010. — Bernama "

 

-end quote.

 

 

 

 

It seems to me, trying to sync what the MD actually said and the S&P report, MH did appear to consider, at least internally, the possibility of swapping the A380s for 330s and/or 350s.

Edited September 29, 2009 by Mushrif A

[KK Lee 5]

As A380 CASM is 20% cheaper than 744; On KUL/LHR, KUL/MEL or KUL/SYD, if MH charge RM150 premium over D7 for catering, IFE and check-in luggage for 70% of seats, MH A380 shouldn’t have difficulty to breakeven. MH’s meat will be the J-class and balance 30% of seats.

 

Can't understand why MH is reluctant to introduce A380

 

[Mohd Azizul Ramli 2]

MH responded to the S&P report, about swapping the 6 A380 with 18+7 A330/A350.

 

MAS denies dropping A380 orders.

 

PETALING JAYA, Sept 29 — Malaysian Airline System Bhd (MAS) has no plans to swap the Airbus A380 for smaller wide-body aircraft such as A330 or A350.

 

“We don’t have any conversation with Airbus saying that we don’t want the A380. There is no foundation to the report,” chief executive officer/managing director, Datuk Tengku Azmil Zahruddin, told reporters after the signing of support agreement for CFM engines with CFM International here today.

 

According to the recent Standard & Poor report, MAS has broached the idea of swapping the A380 for smaller wide-body aircraft to avoid up to US$300 million (RM1.05 billion) in penalty if it were to cancel the order. A local English daily, quoting a source familiar with the situation, said MAS recently sent its technical staff to Airbus’ headquarters in Toulouse to evaluate the smaller wide-body aircraft.

 

MAS ordered six A380s in 2003 for delivery in 2011. The A380 is a double-deck, wide-body, four-engine airliner that seats 525 people in a typical three-class configurations or up to 853 people in all-economy class configuration.

 

“We have visited Toulouse to prepare for the arrival of A380s. I think it is good for us to visit our supplier, not only Airbus but also Boeing because there are always things that we need to work together. “It is not unusual at all. We are on scheduled to receive the A380s,” he said. MAS currently operates 14 A330-200/300s with an average age of 13 years.

 

Azmil said the airline industry was expected to see more signs of recovery towards the second half of this year. “We have seen some signs of improvements in the cargo side but not the passenger growth,” he said.

 

The national airline today sealed an agreement with CFM International, which will provide engine support for the carrier’s Boeing 737-800 fleet. Under the agreement, CFM will provide full support, including technical training, engineering and repair, as well as spare parts. MAS will use the new aircraft primarily within the Asean, including domestic Malaysian operations, as well as to Australia, China and India. In 2008, MAS placed 35 firm and 20 optional orders for the aircraft with delivery commencing in fourth quarter of 2010. — Bernama "

[Eugene Koh 4]

MAS sticks to its order for six A380s

 

Airline expects A380s to be delivered in 2011

 

PETALING JAYA: Malaysia Airlines (MAS) is not replacing its order of six Airbus A380 super jumbo aircraft for smaller wide-body aircraft, said chief executive officer and managing director Datuk Tengku Azmil Zahruddin.

 

A recent report in a local daily (not The Star) said MAS was considering swapping the A380 orders for smaller wide-body aircraft such as the A330 or A350 due to the decline in air traffic amid a prolonged world economic recovery.

 

“Although the deliveries of the A380s are delayed, where MAS should have received all six planes by now, we believe there will not be any more slippage.

 

“We now expect the A380s to be delivered in 2011,” Tengku Azmil said after a signing ceremony with CFM International for CFM engines to be used in the airline’s Boeing 737-800 (B737) fleet.

 

On the industry outlook, Tengku Azmil said the general business environment would continue to be challenging for the rest of this year and next year.

 

“But we hope to see recovery in the second half of 2010. For now, recovery is not apparent on the passenger side but cargo is showing some improvement although conclusive data still need to be gathered,” he said.

 

Under the agreement with CFM International, CFM will provide full support for the engines, which includes technical training, engineering and repair services as well as the provision of spare parts.

 

CFM International is a joint-venture company between General Electric Co and Snecma from SAFRAN Group.

 

Tengku Azmil said MAS had placed 35 firm orders and 20 optional orders for the B737 aircraft last year and expected the deliveries to commence in the fourth quarter of next year.

 

“We may also exercise some of the 20 optional orders in accordance with our fleet growth plan. The B737 will be used primarily for the Asean region, Australia, China, India and domestic operations,” he said.

 

 

 

Well, looks like MAS will be getting the A380 after all, still reckons they should consider B773ER to compliment the exisiting 17 B772ER and phase out the B744s gradually. And order new A332/A333 with built in PTVs to replace ageing fleets of A332/A333. Oh well, just have to wait for their long haul announcement. Any idea when will that be?

 

B738 to Australia, my guess or like many others would be Perth (for sure) and Adelaide. Maybe they should consider

Tasmania too?

Edited September 30, 2009 by Eugene Koh

[Ryan Soh 3]

B738 to Australia, my guess or like many others would be Perth (for sure) and Adelaide. Maybe they should consider

Tasmania too?

[/b]

HUH? KUL-ADL on the 737-800? Wouldn't that be a stretch?

[leon t 0]

all along believed that MH should Not have ordered the A380 as its too big for the routes except SYD-KUL-LHR if its a one daily flight. Still believe that the mainr eason MH chose the A380 is more for "looking good that it have" and want to be like "the big boys" - but seriously MH is never and esp now in the big league. Even b4 the economic crisis, its 3 daily flights to LHR already was cut back to 2 daily bec of low loads. Whats the point of having the A380 with its "lower seat-km" when it needs to reduce its fares to get more people to fly?

MH should instead stick to the 773ER to replace its 744s for better economics and have a fleet replacement for its aeging A330s with its 80s interiors. Where is MH going to fly its A380s than to LHR n SYD which are the 2 cities that can support it and reducing its non A380 capacity.

There must be pure economic reason for the A380 and not for the "feel good factor" which MH and the govt is famous for.

[KK Lee 5]

MH acquiring A380 is a foregone conclusion.

 

SQ and EK have proved A380 is profitable other than SYD/SIN/DXB/LHR.

 

Although MH market share has shrinked on most routes if not all but the overall market size on these routes has growth as shown by D7, AK, EK, EY, SQ, QF, etc. MH poor load is basically caused by over priced ticket, down graded products, infrequency and poor connection at KUL.

 

Since MH pricing policy has gone LCC to certain extend, with aggressive pricing and right products mix, it is not difficult for MH to fill A380. As A380 CASM is lower than 744, 77W, 343, etc, A380 can be the most profitable fleet for MH.

 

Edited September 30, 2009 by KK Lee

[Ja Singh 2]

Its funny how everyone on airliner.net keep going that " A380 is too big for them" and so on:

 

1. MH core widebody fleet is NOT the A380 but some other airlplane in the future. Only 6 A380' son order for busy routes.

 

2. We keep saying too big for MH but in reality how much bigger is it than a 747? Twice bigger? 3 times bigger?

3 class layout capacity of A380 : 555pax 747 :416pax

 

3. Another rumour is MH only ordered the A380 because SQ have them. Really? So did they also had 17 747's in their fleet because the so called "Big Boys" had them? Pure nonsense.

 

4. If MH intend to be a global competitor and a top class airline like it used to be several years ago, it has to do some drastic changes and the A380 will certainly prject that along side other widebody fleet that they plan to purchase, again complemented by 738's.

 

Also They are not planning to have all their widebody plane as A380 but only 6 that will complement the widebody fleet in the future.

 

Its a 50 something year old airline and no plane is to big. Good marketing and good product on board will attract Aussies/Britons to the plane for a trip to Europe and vice versa.

[flee 5]

MH is in a dilemna more about its wide body fleet. This is because decisions that should have been taken 4 or 5 years ago were not taken. As a result, there is a desperate need to replace their ageing A333's and B744's. The 772's are still capable of providing at least another 5 years' service, though.

 

MH should probably lease some A333's and 773ER's now to replace (short term) the ageing A333s and B744's. They should also buy the A350 as the permanent replacement for all their old wide bodies. The A380 should become the flagship product while the A350 should be their workhorse.

 

Yes, it is about time MH comes up with its own marketing ideas instead of just copying AK and D7. They are a 5-star airline and they should behave like one. They should be more focussed on their own product development rather than mimicking competitors.

[Mohd Suhaimi Fariz 2]

 

3. Another rumour is MH only ordered the A380 because SQ have them. Really? So did they also had 17 747's in their fleet because the so called "Big Boys" had them? Pure nonsense.

 

 

Here's an interesting info I got from a book about Airbus "Close To The Sun". Back in the 70s when Airbus was searching for customers for their struggling A300 program, they first went to SQ to sell them the plane. SQ said no, they're thinking about the DC-10. Then they went to MH, and persuaded them to buy the A300 by saying that MH could get the planes before SQ. Then when the contract's signed, Airbus went back to SQ and managed to sell the A300 to SQ by asking them, since MH is buying the A300 what are they going to do about it!

[Ryan Soh 3]

Its a 50 something year old airline and no plane is to big. Good marketing and good product on board will attract Aussies/Britons to the plane for a trip to Europe and vice versa.

Then we have a problem on our hands don't we? "Good marketing" and "MAS" is never used in the same sentence.

[Ja Singh 2]

MH have to make a decision in the next few months on fleet lease as they are in no position to buy planes straight off.

Many 777's that are not being taken up by air india and likes are available.

 

MH management get up and go,go lease a couple of A330's and T7. Your own one go park in the desert..

Edited September 30, 2009 by jadivindra

[suadrif 0]

MH never listen, so why bother?

Hope that someday someone that have the ability and passion for aviation industry will set up a new great airlines to rival the big boys (SQ,QF,BA etc) and makes us proud.

[BC Tam 2]

MH never listen, so why bother?

Oh they do, believe me

It may be of their obligation to "listen" to certain channels that is cause for state MH is in currently

And those channels may not necessarily be customer feedback nor basic good business practices

[Mohd Azizul Ramli 2]

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4562584/

 

These 2 threads belong together. Looks like this topic is a hot discussion in A.Net - almost 12,000 hits in just 3 days!

[Ja Singh 2]

What a bashing on A.net for MH! They deserve it and hope they can pulll their socks up and change their image, which is falling as fast as a plane from 35000 feet.

 

But please dont change your image by just advertising 5 star. Just change the product offerings.

Edited September 30, 2009 by jadivindra

[Ja Singh 2]

IF SQ can fly a full A380 7 times a week to MEL, there is no reason why MH wouldnt be able to fill theirs 3 times a week.

[Cheng Long 0]

With good management on their part, and supportive policy on the government part, I believe they can fly any aircraft.. If not, smaller aircraft also won't help.

 

Malaysia should have one good premier airline and one good LCC. I would like to see MAS to have A380 in their fleet.