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MH 738 cabin reconfigurations

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I know we ran a thread a few years back when the MH A333’s was being reconfigured which was popular, so thought it prudent to start a new one for the MH 738 fleet which are currently undergoing cabin refurbishment from 16J/144Y = 160 seats to 12J/162Y for a total of 174 seats.

The new seats are predominantly blue and feature:

* Lighter, leaner and thinner seats which now incorporate device/literature holders and AC power + USB type A and C charging outlets.

* IFE now streamed to your personal device through on-board Wi-Fi.

* Seat pitch of 39 inches in J and 30 inches in Y.

See below for some images I took recently on-board -MSA. 

Feel free to add frames once they are confirmed as refurbished, I’ll start the list off and confirm these 738’s are now completed, although sure there’s several more done.

9M-MLN, MSA, MXN and MXV.

Business/J class 

52731638642_0bee818d7e_b.jpg

Economy/Y class

52732411844_792e373f68_b.jpg

52731578617_d772bdd711_b.jpg

52732647703_fafb222fe2_b.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Tom/PER

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AFAIK, the current reconfigured frames are:

9M-MXN/L/V, -MSA/F, -MLN/O.

It's uncomfortable and I wouldn't sit on it for more than 2-3 hours.

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1 hour ago, Craig said:

AFAIK, the current reconfigured frames are:

9M-MXN/L/V, -MSA/F, -MLN/O.

It's uncomfortable and I wouldn't sit on it for more than 2-3 hours.

Do we know whether MH plans on reconfiguring every frame that's staying? Because 4-5hr hauls to DEL/PER/TPE would be absolutely dreadful on these.

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4 hours ago, Riza said:

I believe the reconfigured 738 is destined for some targeted markets.

I believe that MH is trying to upgrade some regional routes to A330s but the lack of aircraft is hindering that move. With new A339s coming next year, we may see some more B738 routes being upgraded and the reconfigured B738s should continue to operate the less popular routes.

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6 hours ago, Riza said:

I believe the reconfigured 738 is destined for some targeted markets.

2 hours ago, flee said:

I believe that MH is trying to upgrade some regional routes to A330s but the lack of aircraft is hindering that move. With new A339s coming next year, we may see some more B738 routes being upgraded and the reconfigured B738s should continue to operate the less popular routes.

MH 737 fleet by 2025 est

20-25est b737-800 reconfigured. Other 737-800 will exit. (Fy will also take some of the reconfigured 737-800.)
15 737-max8

There's also 25 737-max8, 10 737-max10 options with no confirmed timeline of entry.

MH has no plan to retain any of the IFE fitted 737-800. As for the max8 not much is known about the cabin but i expect it to be the same non IFE enabled. Looking at current narrowbody trends in Asia with the only exception being SQ. China, Korea and Japan carriers are forgoing IFE's on their narrowobody for WIFI streaming instead.

 

Note Mh plans to use max8 and max 10 on up to 4-6hour routes on places such as Perth, Dhaka, Banglore, Hydrebad, Kochi, Chennai, Kathmandu. Previously these sectors were frequently being highlighted problematic by the 737-800 limited payload which results in courier/pax cargo being offloaded when there's strong headwind or hot weather season. One of the reason ak has issues sending 188seater a320neo to those places as well. 

The 737max also allows MH to add additional frequency flights to Mumbai, Delhi, Guangzhou which are operated by a330s. Also allows MH to reestablish places such as Canberra, Darwin where the a330 is too big for.

The a330neo+a350 or total widebody plan of 33unit meant MH can actually add more flights on the current widebody international trunk routes with very small margin to try out newer routes.

Edited by jahur

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1 hour ago, jahur said:

MH 737 fleet by 2025 est

20-25est b737-800 reconfigured. Other 737-800 will exit. (Fy will also take some of the reconfigured 737-800.)
15 737-max8

There's also 25 737-max8, 10 737-max10 options with no confirmed timeline of entry.

MH has no plan to retain any of the IFE fitted 737-800. As for the max8 not much is known about the cabin but i expect it to be the same non IFE enabled. Looking at current narrowbody trends in Asia with the only exception being SQ. China, Korea and Japan carriers are forgoing IFE's on their narrowobody for WIFI streaming instead.

 

Note Mh plans to use max8 and max 10 on up to 4-6hour routes on places such as Perth, Dhaka, Banglore, Hydrebad, Kochi, Chennai, Kathmandu. Previously these sectors were frequently being highlighted problematic by the 737-800 limited payload which results in courier/pax cargo being offloaded when there's strong headwind or hot weather season. One of the reason ak has issues sending 188seater a320neo to those places as well. 

The 737max also allows MH to add additional frequency flights to Mumbai, Delhi, Guangzhou which are operated by a330s. Also allows MH to reestablish places such as Canberra, Darwin where the a330 is too big for.

The a330neo+a350 or total widebody plan of 33unit meant MH can actually add more flights on the current widebody international trunk routes with very small margin to try out newer routes.?

Thank you for all your valuable info as usual. Correct me if I am wrong, does MH and FY share the same refurbished cabin in Y other than the seat colour? (i.e. same seat from 1 manufacturer).

If AK has issues with the 320NEO, wouldn't MH face the same problem? I was under the impression (correct me if I am wrong again) that the 320NEO and 737 MAX 8 are almost similar?

The reconfigured 737 has 12 J seats and IIRC, India (BOM, DEL) has relatively high demand for J pax - will this be a problem for MH or are they planning to have 2 configurations for both 339 and 7M8? And I never thought CBR will ever see the light of day 😅 

I flew to/from AU recently on MH and I noticed that most pax are to/from London and India with a few around Malaysia/SE Asia. But it is very odd that the daily SYD/MEL-KUL afternoon flight (MH122/148) doesn't connect to the daily evening DEL and MH148 doesn't connect to MH194 (KUL-BOM).

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For narrow body, it makes a lot of sense to provide just wifi - the weight saving on not having IFE screens will be significant. Besides, most pax already carry some sort of wifi capable device (phone, laptop, tablet) on board and most frequent travellers also have their airline's apps installed. So dispensing the IFE is not going to be a major issue, provided that airlines have communicated this to pax before the flight.

MH's fleet plans are not really transparent - so it can change as we go along!

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4 minutes ago, Craig said:

If AK has issues with the 320NEO, wouldn't MH face the same problem? I was under the impression (correct me if I am wrong again) that the 320NEO and 737 MAX 8 are almost similar?

Yes, I am also a little surprised to hear that the A20N has issues with range. Is it because they are carrying more Teleport cargo these days?

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58 minutes ago, flee said:

Yes, I am also a little surprised to hear that the A20N has issues with range. Is it because they are carrying more Teleport cargo these days?

A20N can fly 6hours just not in the current config ak is planning. Mumbai, delhi, tehran is unrecheable. Ak can only reach up to far east india. 

 

1 hour ago, Craig said:

Thank you for all your valuable info as usual. Correct me if I am wrong, does MH and FY share the same refurbished cabin in Y other than the seat colour? (i.e. same seat from 1 manufacturer).

If AK has issues with the 320NEO, wouldn't MH face the same problem? I was under the impression (correct me if I am wrong again) that the 320NEO and 737 MAX 8 are almost similar?

The reconfigured 737 has 12 J seats and IIRC, India (BOM, DEL) has relatively high demand for J pax - will this be a problem for MH or are they planning to have 2 configurations for both 339 and 7M8? And I never thought CBR will ever see the light of day 😅 

I flew to/from AU recently on MH and I noticed that most pax are to/from London and India with a few around Malaysia/SE Asia. But it is very odd that the daily SYD/MEL-KUL afternoon flight (MH122/148) doesn't connect to the daily evening DEL and MH148 doesn't connect to MH194 (KUL-BOM).

Yeap same seat model Safran z110 only mh comes with the regional recliner J z500.

The a320neo can fly 6hours just not in the 188pax configuration. The a321neo can fly further than the 737max though as it comes with 3 additional fuel tank than the 320neo. Same case with the 738 vs 739er. The 739er comes standard equip with an additional fuel tank flies slightly further.

India J demand is there hence why it will be mixmode of 330 and 73M. The max 10 config comes with more business class that are full lie flat meant for these sort of flights. But with the certification issue not sure if MH can take them in the intended time. 

Edited by jahur

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MH fleet plan seems to be controlled by government funding. Completely not following any logical rules. But because of this short sightedness, MH will lose out. Look at how long it will take to get a new 787 or A350. 
Even Vietnam airlines has new generation aircraft - flying non stop to the US! MH will always be reactive unless they get rid of government interference totally

Edited by Izanee

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On 3/11/2023 at 7:08 PM, jahur said:

A20N can fly 6hours just not in the current config ak is planning. Mumbai, delhi, tehran is unrecheable. Ak can only reach up to far east india. 

I would not want to be flying longer than 4 hours in this config! And that is the max that AK flies, isn't it?

I would be interested to see how D7 configures its A321XLR. Hopefully, it will not be as cramped as AK's config.

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9 hours ago, Izanee said:

MH fleet plan seems to be controlled by government funding. Completely not following any logical rules. But because of this short sightedness, MH will lose out. Look at how long it will take to get a new 787 or A350. 
Even Vietnam airlines has new generation aircraft - flying non stop to the US! MH will always be reactive unless they get rid of government interference totally

Yes, the govt. does not regard MH as that important nowadays - probably because they are not able to turn around after so many years. For MH to progress, it must be completely private with a totally new management philosophy.

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16 hours ago, Izanee said:

MH fleet plan seems to be controlled by government funding. Completely not following any logical rules. But because of this short sightedness, MH will lose out. Look at how long it will take to get a new 787 or A350. 
Even Vietnam airlines has new generation aircraft - flying non stop to the US! MH will always be reactive unless they get rid of government interference totally

To be fair, Vietnam has more ties with US (especially family) than we do. All Americans have to learn about Vietnam and there are a lot of Vietnamese immigrants living in US (you can even find them in small town USA opening a pho shop).

But more importantly, Vietnam flies to more destinations in Europe than MH do! They even fly to Frankfurt and they don't have beyond connections there nor there's a huge Vietnamese population around Frankfurt. VN can make FRA work (can't tell if its profitable of course) but MH doesn't even have a plan to return to AMS/CDG/FRA. FRA-KUL is the largest inbound (13.1% market share) and outbound (10.9% market share) O&D FTK (freight tons kilometers) air cargo for Q3 2022 but yet neither MH/LH cargo nor passenger service operate that route.

On 3/11/2023 at 7:08 PM, jahur said:

India J demand is there hence why it will be mixmode of 330 and 73M. The max 10 config comes with more business class that are full lie flat meant for these sort of flights. But with the certification issue not sure if MH can take them in the intended time. 

MH is only getting the 7M8 yeah? Or are they getting the max-10 too? It was 25 7M8 firm orders plus a handful of options?

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1 hour ago, Craig said:

MH is only getting the 7M8 yeah? Or are they getting the max-10 too? It was 25 7M8 firm orders plus a handful of options?

I last saw 25 737-8 firm orders and 25 additional options. Part of the 25 options includes potential conversion to max 10. 2019 Mh was keen on having at least 10 units of 737-10/max10. The only issue for the 25 optional orders is whether mh has funds to honor them by 2025. 

In terms of range the max 10 still has less range than the max 8 but flies slightly further than the 737-800 with almost 30 additional passengers by about 150nmi. Quite different policy by Airbus whereas the a321neo flies way further than the a320neo. In terms of 737-800 vs 737-max8 the range upgrade is significant by 500nmi or nearly 1.5hours of additional flight time. All in all the small extra margin of range on the max 10 is enough for mh to not consider offloading cargo at least compared to the 737-800. 

Still not sure what mh is going to market them as. For SQ they drop the max its all 737-8 now. Probably with the public scare mh will probably do the same.

Edited by jahur

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39 minutes ago, jahur said:

I last saw 25 737-8 firm orders and 25 additional options. Part of the 25 options includes potential conversion to max 10. 2019 Mh was keen on having at least 10 units of 737-10/max10. The only issue for the 25 optional orders is whether mh has funds to honor them by 2025. 

In terms of range the max 10 still has less range than the max 8 but flies slightly further than the 737-800 with almost 30 additional passengers by about 150nmi. Quite different policy by Airbus whereas the a321neo flies way further than the a320neo. In terms of 737-800 vs 737-max8 the range upgrade is significant by 500nmi or nearly 1.5hours of additional flight time. All in all the small extra margin of range on the max 10 is enough for mh to not consider offloading cargo at least compared to the 737-800. 

Still not sure what mh is going to market them as. For SQ they drop the max its all 737-8 now. Probably with the public scare mh will probably do the same.

Interesting. Thank you for the valuable info again. Does MH face the same problem on MH 124/125 (KUL-PER daytime flight on 738)? The distance is even greater than DEL although PER is more of a north-south route compared to DEL. I'd imagine there's quite a bit of cargo from both DEL and PER.

With only 25 firm 737-8, am I right that MH will retain some of its 738-NG for regional (<3 hours) operations? And they leave the 737-8 for slightly longer flights and hopefully a better cabin interior? I can't imagine people paying for Safran Z500 from PER to say DEL/BOM. That's a good 9-10 hours in the air plus a redeye either way.  

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4 hours ago, Craig said:

Interesting. Thank you for the valuable info again. Does MH face the same problem on MH 124/125 (KUL-PER daytime flight on 738)? The distance is even greater than DEL although PER is more of a north-south route compared to DEL. I'd imagine there's quite a bit of cargo from both DEL and PER.

With only 25 firm 737-8, am I right that MH will retain some of its 738-NG for regional (<3 hours) operations? And they leave the 737-8 for slightly longer flights and hopefully a better cabin interior? I can't imagine people paying for Safran Z500 from PER to say DEL/BOM. That's a good 9-10 hours in the air plus a redeye either way.  

Ex PER is not really cargo heavy. So far i did not hear much issue regarding cargo offloading from there. I know OD previously did some retiming shifting for perth departure due to hot temperature for the 738 but it may be due to the fact that OD equips them with 22k thrust rated engine vs 26k on MH.

Afaik 737-800 are to be flown within Asean while the maxes will be flown on mostly 6hours or less sectors. There were plans to send the max on even longer flights from other stations like BKI but those plans were long ago. Knowing how volatile MH is when it comes to actual planning we may have to take everything with a grain of salt. 

Back to topic, In terms of the new cabin refitting FY's upcoming aircrafts will be delivered with the safran seats. With plans of total 8 aircraft by this year end. Meaning it may have 3 aircrafts with older seats and 5 with the orange safran seats.

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22 hours ago, Craig said:

 

FRA-KUL is the largest inbound (13.1% market share) and outbound (10.9% market share) O&D FTK (freight tons kilometers) air cargo for Q3 2022 but yet neither MH/LH cargo nor passenger service operate that route.

 

Do you mean the 13.1% and 10.9% of the total cargo Flying to KUL? Who flies it then? Cargolux? MasKargo from AMS? 

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17 hours ago, jahur said:

Back to topic, In terms of the new cabin refitting FY's upcoming aircrafts will be delivered with the safran seats. With plans of total 8 aircraft by this year end. Meaning it may have 3 aircrafts with older seats and 5 with the orange safran seats.

Thank you for the info. I am surprised they can do so many 737 routes from PEN with only a handful of 737s.

1 hour ago, Izanee said:

Do you mean the 13.1% and 10.9% of the total cargo Flying to KUL? Who flies it then? Cargolux? MasKargo from AMS? 

No idea who flies it. I'd assume it's Cargolux + maybe MASKargo and QR cargo. It's FTK, so I assume the distance matter a lot more in this case compared to freight from say India/Vietnam/Singapore. Full report here (on page 19). US remained at the #1 spot as a country for both inbound and outbound and I assume Cargolux plus other East Asian carriers (and maybe SQ) are ones ferrying US cargo. I maybe wrong so feel free to correct me.

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have had 3 flights, 2 in J and 1 in Y with these new seats. About 2hours + for each flight.

For J:

J seat now feels cramped and if sitting legs crossed shoe/feet will definitely be pressing against the front chair. The seat table and meal tray are almost the same size, meaning you can't see the table after it's placed on it so quite difficult to know if the tray is close to tipping/sliding off. This is apparent during a turbulent flight where everybody had 1 hand on the tray to keep it in place. There is also a small retractable table for drinks, which the cabin crew does not use. They prefer to put the drinks/glass on the centre arm rest, can't blame them as both tables are not grippy to hold the tray or glass in place.

I also assumed that with J seats having a "case" behind them, my "screen" wouldn't be affected by the passenger in front reclining. Wrong. The "case" reclines together so not sure what the point of having it on is. There are also deep pockets beside the seats, which on both flights (different ac) were already accumulating debris. 

For headrest, the "wings" to hold your head don't come close to 90 angle (more like 10?) so useless to try to lean your head on them. For the last row (row 3) the cabin partition leaves a large gap at the centre handrest. So you'll actually get more privacy standing in the aisle (since this has a curtain) than sitting at row 3.

For Y:

Comparing with AK's new seats, not much of a difference. The phone holder is a nice touch, if it was AK. But to use to have a screen and now a phone holder ... I'd call it a downgrade for MH.

Crews also have to do the manual safety briefing, so the snazzy musical themed one will be a rarity soon for 737 passengers. "IFE" worked when I was sitting in Y, but not the J sectors. Didn't bother to ask the crew, it only loads the ads but does not play the content.

For a tip, depending on your device privacy setting you may need to enable location to be able to see the In-Flight-Status. With such hassale, unless MH introduces InFlight Internet, they may as well just get rid of the "IFE" and save on content fees. Glanced while on a walk of the cabin and less than 50% of the people were on screens.

Overall, I don't mind the Y seats and if MH has a good time / reasonable fare against AK it's fair game. For J, I'll definitely be avoiding for international flights so a real shame that what is refurbished is not an improvement at all.

JuQblrw.jpg
Drinks Tray

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Half Length Curtains

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Row 3 , partition with hole

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Just to add, there is no USB or socket next to the phone / device holder for J seats. So if you want to watch a movie and charge your device at the same time, the cable will dangle to your seat.

In Y, the seatbacks have USB sockets.

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Thanks for the detailed evaluation of both types of seats, Timothy.

As I have said in another thread, I don't really hold great hopes for the 737 Max cabin if it is going to be the same seats. All these new seats are designed to reduce size and weight to enable better operating economics for the airline, not pax comfort.

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Flew as a passenger on this refurbished 737s. Feels so LCC and everything is already breaking apart so soon. Broken tray table, wireless system not functional and worst of all warm cabin.

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