Hajj Flights

[Nik H. 3]

One thing that bothers me is the spiralling cost of going for hajj, which now stands at RM9,000 for the cheapest package for a normal 40-day stay. And yet Tabung Haji still has to subsidize to the tune of RM50mil for this season alone (see HERE).

 

This is a financial burden to the common folks. I wonder what's the cost breakdown for transportation, accommodation, fees, services, etc. Is MH charging too much, say?

 

RM9,000 for a 38 day package is dirt cheap. It works out to RM236 per day inclusive of return air fare , ground transportation from Jeddah to Makkah to Madinah and back to Jeddah. Also included is accomodation, Hajj visa fees, 3 meals a day, medical services, muasasah fees and other misc benefits.

 

Indonesians are charged more. So are Bruneians and Singaporeans.

 

As for the air transportation cost component, do consider that each Hajj pilgrim is actually paying for 4 flights for each return trip; ie Malaysia-Saudi outbound flight, Saudi-Malaysia empty leg, Malaysia-Saudi empty leg, Saudi-Malaysia return flight. Almost like paying for two umrahs.

 

Furthermore, during the Hajj, prices of accomodation, transportation, food and fuel is at its highest due to peak demands. This is outside our control.

 

For info, fuel prices in Saudi during the Hajj is among the highest in the world, Madinah being the highest.

 

I wish I can tell more but some information are privileged, others are proprietry in nature.

 

Let me assure you that being in charge of this Hajj Operations, my team and I are always concious of our social obligation to the country, and while I drive towards profitability, taking advantage of the situation is something we do not subscribe to.

 

BTW, when we were chosen over AK in 2003, one of the winning factors was our price in context of the service trade-off offered.

 

We simply offer better value for money.

[affendi osman 0]

On the subject of Hajj and Charter Uniforms here's the superseded ones.

 

With jacket on.

 

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k229/nik.../crewhajold.jpg

 

On Board During Galley service. Different headscarves denotes rank

 

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k229/nik...whajnewtdg1.jpg

 

Essentially Charter uniforms but scarves are allowed if the girls want to wear them. On Hajj flights, scarves are mandatory.

 

More on the new uniform later.....

 

 

I like the uniform....sopan...

I wonder is this what the Wanita UMNO wanted during the assembly last week!

[Fitri Shukri 0]

Capt Nik,

Thank you for all the information and photos. Good luck to your team. You are not only doing business with the pilgrims, but most importantly, you're doing business with Allah. I pray you and your team will be rewarded in this world and also in the Akhirat.

 

Maarof,

Selamat berangkat menunaikan ibadah haji. Semoga mendapat haji mabrur dan selamat pulang ke tanahair.

 

When I go to hajj in the future (please pray that I will get be to Allah's guest too), I hope to go through MASCharter. Hope by that time, our Capt Nik will still be in charge (unless you're promoted higher to MAS MD, then OK )

[Naim 6]

RM9,000 for a 38 day package is dirt cheap. It works out to RM236 per day inclusive of return air fare , ground transportation from Jeddah to Makkah to Madinah and back to Jeddah. Also included is accomodation, Hajj visa fees, 3 meals a day, medical services, muasasah fees and other misc benefits.

...

 

Fair enuf, but have you seen the accommodation the poor blokes (the majority) who pay RM9,000 have to endure? Many ppl crammed into small rooms, and in Mina, they stay on the other side of the Muassem tunnel, easily 1 hour walk to the stoning sites. And have you seen their meals? Of course when ppl complain, they are told these are 'tests' from God, which unfortunately I don't buy. The whole hajj thing to me is just another business venture. Mecca itself started off as a junction of caravan routes and ppl stopped to trade. And at such an important trade junction, a 'temple' was set up ... and the rest is history.

 

 

[Nik H. 3]

Fair enuf, but have you seen the accommodation the poor blokes (the majority) who pay RM9,000 have to endure? Many ppl crammed into small rooms, and in Mina, they stay on the other side of the Muassem tunnel, easily 1 hour walk to the stoning sites. And have you seen their meals? Of course when ppl complain, they are told these are 'tests' from God, which unfortunately I don't buy. The whole hajj thing to me is just another business venture. Mecca itself started off as a junction of caravan routes and ppl stopped to trade. And at such an important trade junction, a 'temple' was set up ... and the rest is history.

 

Yes. I have toured Arafah and Mina and mingled with everyone who was doing the Hajj, ranging from Ministers and Menteris Besars to farmers and fishermen from Bachok. I've even eaten with them in their tents. I've had buffets with the Zamrud group. I have seen the rooms for the Zamrud group that overlooks the holy kaabah and also walked the path of the lower end pilgrim packages to the holy mosque.

 

Some sites given to the Malaysian pilgrims are at the discretion of the Saudis, and when all's said and done, we are still at the higher end of the spectrum when compared to the other countries.

 

And certainly, the Hajj IS a business venture, the only difference is that MASCharter is not taking advantage of the call of God to make unholy profits. On this count I can guarantee as while I may not be pious, i am concerned about where i end up in afterlife.....

 

There may be other parties who could contribute by lessening their margins just like we do and help in reducing the burden for the ummah, but who am I to dictate that, being a small insignificant cog in the huge machinery that is the world Hajj movement.

 

At any rate, we at MASCharter are here to provide the best service for the money paid, and have no wish to shortchange anyone, not the Pilgrims, nor the people who work with us.

Edited November 15, 2007 by Nik H.

[mokhzani 0]

My father who went with his uncle in 1992 got to stay in a maktab (hostel) very near to Masjidil Haram, whereas, his younger brother who went for the more expensive package stays in a hotel further away.

 

By chance the TH's Maktab's manager was also name Mohd Mokhzani Mokhtar, so he gave my father and his uncle a room on the ground floor just for the 2 of them, when the room was meant for 6 people.

 

This is what I call "rezeki masing-masing"... ones own good fortune I believe.....

[Mohd Azizul Ramli 2]

Nik H.,

 

May I know what are the other 3 carriers that were granted the right to operate in MED?

 

All discussion is incomplete without asking about the future business plan (for an entity). In MAS Charter's haj department case, how do you see the operation? Is it just a temporarily formed department, which will be dissolved should MAS Charter not being awarded with the contract in the next tendering round? Or will the department do something to strenghten its business portfolio?

 

What is the prospect of MAS Charter's haj department in securing the same job in other ASEAN countries like Singapore, Thailand or Indonesia? I am aware about each countries' protectionism policy over their own charter provider but can it be done in any way?

 

I am imagining MAS Charter's haj department (MAYBE) to be incorporated into a Sendirian Berhad entity thus, can pursue businesses abroad. I don't know about how the process is being done in other (neighbouring) countries, but as for Singapore and Thailand, given the nature that both countries and their flag carriers, which are 'non Islamic', and given the chance that both countries will treat the whole process as 'just another business opportunity' (thus a fair selection process can be envisaged), given the expertise and experiences that MAS Charter's haj department possessed, I think the department stands a great chance in getting the contract in these countries.

 

Care to elaborate in details?

Edited November 15, 2007 by Mohd Azizul Ramli

[Kader 0]

hajj changes people, a Haji tittle changes people...

i send off a few people to hajj before and they return refreshed... like newborns(if i can say that)

and always looking forward for another trip.but after some time, some of them forgets about the hajj

but a refresher like umrah or another haji will reminds them of the 'moment' between god and man'

 

hmm i did read something like 'experience' in the holy land...especially in Mastika...but confirmed by

somebody, who saw it in real life, and i knew that person would never made up stories

[Nik H. 3]

Nik H.,

 

May I know what are the other 3 carriers that were granted the right to operate in MED?

 

All discussion is incomplete without asking about the future business plan (for an entity). In MAS Charter's haj department case, how do you see the operation? Is it just a temporarily formed department, which will be dissolved should MAS Charter not being awarded with the contract in the next tendering round? Or will the department do something to strenghten its business portfolio?

What is the prospect of MAS Charter's haj department in securing the same job in other ASEAN countries like Singapore, Thailand or Indonesia? I am aware about each countries' protectionism policy over their own charter provider but can it be done in any way?

 

I am imagining MAS Charter's haj department (MAYBE) to be incorporated into a Sendirian Berhad entity thus, can pursue businesses abroad. I don't know about how the process is being done in other (neighbouring) countries, but as for Singapore and Thailand, given the nature that both countries and their flag carriers, which are 'non Islamic', and given the chance that both countries will treat the whole process as 'just another business opportunity' (thus a fair selection process can be envisaged), given the expertise and experiences that MAS Charter's haj department possessed, I think the department stands a great chance in getting the contract in these countries.

 

Care to elaborate in details?

 

The Department was created prior to the Hajj being operated . When I mooted the idea of grabbing the Hajj contract, there were naysayers all round from within, but i presevered and got it anyway. The Dept expanded thereafter.

 

The bread and butter of this Dept is operating Charters using whatever available aircraft time within the MAS system and drawing a program compatible with the demand of clients. I'm not going to share the philosophy of how Charter Business is run in MAS as it will bore most people and besides, it will be off topic.

 

Hajj is just a portion of Charter Dept Business. After all its only for 70 days in 365 business days. To depend on purely the Hajj would be poor business strategy. With regards to the Dept being dissolved if we lose the Hajj, it will not happen. In fact, we will make much more money if we operate Third Party Hajj for Indonesia, BanglaDesh or India. We've leased out capacity to India and flown out of Bangalore and Bombay (then) years ago, and as recently as last year, operated the Hajj for Pakistan.

 

As to protectionism, it is not the case in these countries as they are crying out for capacity every season.

 

BTW, can you tell me which country around here have a Charter dept within their organisation...? Try calling TG, CX, SQ or GA and ask for a Charter quote...see their response, if at all.

 

As for the Charter Dept turning into a subsidiary, it will not happen in the near future as personal envy and egos will conspire to keep Charter growth in check.

 

As far as details, it will be wasted here....complicated landscape to navigate with the keyboard, and will raise more questions than answers, and partial understanding will lead to erronous conclusion.

 

Face to face, anytime.

Edited November 15, 2007 by Nik H.

[Nik H. 3]

By the way, I just spoke to Norman, a moderator on MW and offered him a seat on the Hajj flight to BKI and back.

 

He has a choice of taking either one of the 20th or 23rd November flight.

 

The flight will fly empty to BKI and pick up the pilgrims ex BKI. It will then land in KUL where Norman will disembark and depart for the Holy Land.

 

He will revert to me as to the choice of flights he will be on.

 

Normal conditions apply. Posting only after clearance by the Dept. MW members will be able to see first hand from one of their own.

 

MASCharters; Done what others talk about doing.....

[Chan CS 0]

So Capt Nik, why the flight has to go to KUL instead of head straight to its destination? Sorry if you've clarified before...

[Naim 6]

hajj changes people, a Haji tittle changes people...

i send off a few people to hajj before and they return refreshed... like newborns(if i can say that)

and always looking forward for another trip.but after some time, some of them forgets about the hajj

but a refresher like umrah or another haji will reminds them of the 'moment' between god and man'

...

 

Doing the hajj is akin to a systematic spiritual cleansing exercise, but you won't go far by simply doing the rituals and reading the Holy Book and by reciting the doa's, without appreciating the essence of it all. As such, the enlightenment should come from within, and this is not something achievable by everybody. Hence some ppl may spend RM70k for the experience but got virtually nothing out of it, while another who spent just RM10k may get more than he bargained for.

 

For me personally, it brought to a realization that the whole exercise was a simplified manifestation of something even more grand in the cosmic scale of things. Why are we doing all these arcane rituals? What for? Why? So when I returned (in '03), I started to explore other holy sites to complement my hajj experience. I find the old faiths of Hinduism and Buddhism rather attractive, so I visited the Sangam in Allahabad, Shinto temples, Buddhist/Hindu/Jain temples in India & the Far East. For e.g. in Bali, I found their brand of Hinduism very unique, and visiting the sacred Besakih temple complex was a high point. So the hajj experience opened me to other (older) faiths and prompted me to reconcile them with Islam. And yes, you will find me a much more relaxed person - less ambitious, definitely less competitive, more open, more laid-back, sorta anything-goes-and-death-is-a-saviour bloke - compared to my pre-hajj days. But I guess that's just my own weird way, and yes, I'm eyeing for a hajj refresher some time 2011/12.

 

 

 

[Nik H. 3]

So Capt Nik, why the flight has to go to KUL instead of head straight to its destination? Sorry if you've clarified before...

 

BKI Runway length limitation.

[Chan CS 0]

BKI Runway length limitation.

 

That's mean they will just go back to KUL to refill and fill up with catering? How long is the transit anyway?

[Radzi 2]

Capt Nik,

 

Do you know the schedules for the SV flights? They will be quite intersting to spot, especially the hard-to-see -100s.

[Norman 1]

By the way, I just spoke to Norman, a moderator on MW and offered him a seat on the Hajj flight to BKI and back.

 

He has a choice of taking either one of the 20th or 23rd November flight.

 

The flight will fly empty to BKI and pick up the pilgrims ex BKI. It will then land in KUL where Norman will disembark and depart for the Holy Land.

 

He will revert to me as to the choice of flights he will be on.

 

Normal conditions apply. Posting only after clearance by the Dept. MW members will be able to see first hand from one of their own.

 

MASCharters; Done what others talk about doing.....

 

hehehe Thank you...

 

I'll call you later today for details to confirm on the date... both will be 'graveyard shift'...

 

[Meor 0]

congrats En. Norman... this will be interesting flight....

 

-cheers-

[Nik H. 3]

That's mean they will just go back to KUL to refill and fill up with catering? How long is the transit anyway?

 

Yes. The stop will be for a "Splash and Dash" transit planned for 90 minutes but normally done in 70 minutes. There will be crew change and "Grub Grab" too.

 

Hope the Runway extension will allow direct flights in the future to allow cost saving.

[Nik H. 3]

Capt Nik,

 

Do you know the schedules for the SV flights? They will be quite intersting to spot, especially the hard-to-see -100s.

 

Date Dep

19 0230

20 0220

21 0230

22 0230

 

23,24,25, Nov all 0230 Departure.

 

For Dec there will be two departures at 0230 and 0630 on these dates: 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 at 0630.

 

For Phase 2 all arrivals are at night between 2030 to 2230.

 

Happy spotting

 

[Nik H. 3]

MW photographers will be on hand to cover Hajj Charter Flight Movement Ex BKI on the 23rd November.

 

Details:

 

MH 8616 KUL - BKI Dep 0330 Arr 0605

MH 8032 BKI - KUL Dep 0835 Arr 1105

 

PAX Number : 380 ex BKI

 

Regn : 9M-MPK ( Johor Baru )

 

Two MW Spotters will be assigned to cover the flight;

 

Norman will follow the flight and cover ;

 

Crew Briefing, Catering Uplift, Aircraft Preparation, Ferry Flight, Arrival at BKI, Pax Embarkation, Inflight BKI - KUL, Arrival KUL and Crew Debrief.

 

Meor will cover the following;

 

Hajj Pilgrim Check-in at BKI, BKI Airport Activities, Apron Pushback and Departure.

 

Photojourno will be posted here in due time.

 

[Meor 0]

Thanks capt...

[Ewan Shamsudin 0]

Wah.... congrats Meor!

[BC Tam 2]

Date Dep19 023020 022021 023022 023023,24,25, Nov all 0230 Departure.For Dec there will be two departures at 0230 and 0630 on these dates: 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 at 0630.For Phase 2 all arrivals are at night between 2030 to 2230.Happy spotting

At those hours ?!

Hajj Pilgrim Check-in at BKI, BKI Airport Activities, Apron Pushback and Departure

Not doing the check-in at Tabung Haji Complex and pax bussed straight to waiting jumbo at tarmac as per last year ?Can't imagine the chaos if it's to be done at BKI T1 the condition it's in currently.A big thank you in advance to Uncle Norman and Meor for your upcoming effort. This looks like a real special hajj season even for non muslims like yours truly !

[S V Choong 4]

Thanks Captain Nik, Norman and Meor for the coverage of these flights. For many of us, we wouldn't even know the inside story of these flights.

[Nick R. 0]

Capt Nik,

 

Do you know the schedules for the SV flights? They will be quite intersting to spot, especially the hard-to-see -100s.

According to the flight movement telex, arrival & departure around 0200-0400..

however expect some nitestop/AOGs