Hajj Flights

[Nik H. 3]

Thanks a lot capt Nik for a very informative insight of the Hajj (or was it Hadj? whatever lah...) operation

never imagine the extent labor taken by MAS charter during the Hajj time.

My parent and brother went for Hajj in 1997 from PEN. and was onboard the 747 - unsure which variant - with the white scheme and Tabung Haji tail. good reminiscence, this thread

keep up!

Maarof, semoga mendapat Haji yang Mambur... insyaallah.

BTW, any news on PEN-origin and PEN-bound flights, capt?

 

That would be Tower Air B747-100. The Hajj that year was operated by Transmile Air.

 

Schedules for spotters will be posted tomorrow.

[Mohd Idham 0]

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k229/nik...al/posthaj4.jpg

 

 

"JOHOR BAHRU" again....i'm curious...

[Mushrif A 3]

Nothing to be curious. -MPK is the last unrefurbished MH 744, which should offer the max capacity.

[Nik H. 3]

One of the more interesting tales I've heard so far, but very creative and practical.

 

Model of the aircraft toilet to accompany the real thing for Tabung Haji.

 

 

[Nik H. 3]

MW Spotters, here's the schedules of the Hajj Flights

 

Phase 1

JHB

12 NOV Arr 0525 Dep 0920

14 NOV Arr 0555 Dep 1020

01 DEC Arr 1515 Dep 1845

02DEC Arr 1505 Dep 1735

PEN

26 NOV Arr 1440 dep 1920

27 NOV Arr 1435 Dep 1725

28 NOV Arr 1540 Dep 1955

29 NOV Arr 0515 Dep 1020

30 NOV Arr 0610 Dep 1055

01 DEC Arr 0620 Dep 1055

04 DEC Arr 0625 Dep 1055

05 DEC Arr 0620 Dep 1255

06 DEC Arr 0845 Dep 1155

09 DEC Arr 0625 Dep 1155

BKI

20 NOV Arr 0340 Dep 0610

23 NOV Arr 0605 Dep 0835

KCH

17 NOV Arr 1125 Dep 1355

19 NOV Arr 1125 Dep 1355

 

Phase 2 later.....

 

Happy Spotting.Appreciate of the photos can be forwarded to me or posted on this thread TQ

Edited November 13, 2007 by Nik H.

[Azreen 0]

Even a model toilet momento is available by Mas Charter - Capt Nik u really give attention to small details.Kudos!!

[Samuel Chy 0]

:angry: :help: 22/11 i at west M'sia already... anyway, thanks a lot for the information, Capt.

[Chan CS 0]

AH I go back only on 25th!!

[Mohd Azizul Ramli 2]

This thread is something so insightful and comprehensive that even A.Net has failed to achieve throughout the years. And as a bonus, the insight is on the operation of THE BEST haj handling operator in the world (Tabung Haji, MAS Charter). Some replies from several forumers uncovered the other side of them behind their names. (My) Perception may changes towards some.

 

Having been to the Holy land myself at the tender age of 13, the trip (although) was not a haj flight, was of utmost monumental for me as of today.

 

I have a few questions which I hope Nik H. can answers:

• 2 B744 and 1 B772 are used by MAS Charter. May I know their registration (other than 9M-MPK)? Will the utilisation of these 3 aircrafts disrupt MH's normal operation or are these aircrafts in 'idle' mode?

• 9M-MPK Johor Bahru is the only B744 which has yet to be refurbished (as 9M-MPM Melaka is confirmed to has been refurbished). It can accommodate 18F, 50J and 316Y with a total of 384 passengers. My question is, who will occupy the F and J seats? Is it those who paid premium haj packages or the seats are being assigned to normal haj passengers randomly (or by luck)?

• The second B744. Since the rest of MH's B744 have been refurbished with 12F, 41J and 306Y with a total of 359 passengers, how can this aircraft carries 380 passengers per trip as you suggested? Or is the second B744 is the SV aircraft that our fellow MW member Maarof Kassim will fly tomorrow (16 Nov)?

• The SV aircraft. Why is the aircraft being involved (for KT17 and some more I suppose) in this year haj operation? Does it has anything to do with MAS Charter?

Your feedback is highly appreciated.

[Nik H. 3]

This thread is something so insightful and comprehensive that even A.Net has failed to achieve throughout the years. And as a bonus, the insight is on the operation of THE BEST haj handling operator in the world (Tabung Haji, MAS Charter). Some replies from several forumers uncovered the other side of them behind their names. (My) Perception may changes towards some.

 

Having been to the Holy land myself at the tender age of 13, the trip (although) was not a haj flight, was of utmost monumental for me as of today.

 

I have a few questions which I hope Nik H. can answers:

• 2 B744 and 1 B772 are used by MAS Charter. May I know their registration (other than 9M-MPK)? Will the utilisation of these 3 aircrafts disrupt MH's normal operation or are these aircrafts in 'idle' mode?

• 9M-MPK Johor Bahru is the only B744 which has yet to be refurbished (as 9M-MPM Melaka is confirmed to has been refurbished). It can accommodate 18F, 50J and 316Y with a total of 384 passengers. My question is, who will occupy the F and J seats? Is it those who paid premium haj packages or the seats are being assigned to normal haj passengers randomly (or by luck)?

• The second B744. Since the rest of MH's B744 have been refurbished with 12F, 41J and 306Y with a total of 359 passengers, how can this aircraft carries 380 passengers per trip as you suggested? Or is the second B744 is the SV aircraft that our fellow MW member Maarof Kassim will fly tomorrow (16 Nov)?

• The SV aircraft. Why is the aircraft being involved (for KT17 and some more I suppose) in this year haj operation? Does it has anything to do with MAS Charter?

Your feedback is highly appreciated.

 

1. One B744 to be used exclusively for Hajj will be the 9M-MPK aircraft which is in the old config. The other is from the scheduled fleet and the registration is random, subject to availibility. The new config aircraft will carry 355. The B772 will carry 200 pilgrims, the rest being for scheduled passengers. Similarly, the B772 will be randomly utilised and will bear any of the registrations in the fleet. Their utilisation does affect the MH schedules but with forward planning, closer monitoring and judiciuos jiggling of maintenance schedules, the impact will be minimal. The Hajj period also takes place at a time when demand for aircraft time is more liberal.

 

2. Tha assignment of F and J seats are jointly done by MASCharter and Tabung Haji. Priority is given to the pilgrims who have taken the 'private' packages where a higher price is paid. As you may be well aware, Hajj packages starts at just below RM10K for the normal 'mua sasah' groups and goes up to RM70K for the Zamrud package. Additionally, MASCharters will assign premium seats to pilgrims who are less ambulatory, and ensure that seats near doors and exits are occupied by more agile and able bodied pilgrims, for safety enhancement reasons.

 

3. Bilateral agreement with Saudi dictates that the allowable number of pilgrims to be carried is split 50-50. Saudi will be using their B747-100 aircraft with a seating capacity of 444. This has nothing to do with MASCharter. Pilgrims who flies SV will obviously not get the privilege MASCharter accords to those carried by us.

 

Hope the above clarifies.

 

PS. The Hajj is a major event that is of great interest for Malaysians, especially the Muslims.

 

Berita Harian Front Page 12oct2007

[Naim 6]

3. Bilateral agreement with Saudi dictates that the allowable number of pilgrims to be carried is split 50-50. Saudi will be using their B747-100 aircraft with a seating capacity of 444. This has nothing to do with MASCharter. Pilgrims who flies SV will obviously not get the privilege MASCharter accords to those carried by us.

 

This could be the same SV puppy I was in, in '03, all 444 of us cramped in. I thot it was a 742, but I only remember a very old plane. As mentioned, we used SV then because only SV was allowed to use MED.

 

 

 

[Mohd Azizul Ramli 2]

Additionally, MASCharters will assign premium seats to pilgrims who are less ambulatory, and ensure that seats near doors and exits are occupied by more agile and able bodied pilgrims, for safety enhancement reasons.

I see. So there are normal passengers who will be assigned with these premium seats. I guess if the seats' allocation is based on the actual price each pilgrim paid, the F and J cabins would be NOT full in each flight.

 

3. Bilateral agreement with Saudi dictates that the allowable number of pilgrims to be carried is split 50-50. Saudi will be using their B747-100 aircraft with a seating capacity of 444. This has nothing to do with MASCharter. Pilgrims who flies SV will obviously not get the privilege MASCharter accords to those carried by us.

So that's how it works. By any chance, can someone like Maarof Kassim for instance, upon knowing that he will be on a SV coded flight, make a plea to MAS Charter to be reassigned into MH coded flights? How is the segregation on which KT will be flown in MH and SV flights being done? I guess it must be on random basis?

 

Some other questions arise.

 

As a proceed from the fact about Malaysian pilgrims preference of MH flights over SV flights due to the 'world's apart' inflight products and services, , you mentioned that the Saudi government has nodded on something about it. Is this relates to the 50-50 split ferrying agreement? Does it means for next year's haj flights, all Malaysian pilgrims will be flown to MED and JED and back on an all MH fleets? If yes, will it be permanent or subject to review after several years? Does the nod that the Saudi government granted only applies to 'MH' or 'Malaysia' (as a country)?

 

I understand that haj charter is subject to annual 'tendering' process, which will be decided by Lembaga Tabung Haji. If the Saudi government's nod is only applies to MH, what will happened if in any years in the future, MH couldn't secure the haj charter tender? Or will the nod secures MAS Charter position as the sole haj charter provider for Malaysian pilgrims?

 

Curiosity kills the cat.

[Naim 6]

...

Some replies from several forumers uncovered the other side of them behind their names. (My) Perception may changes towards some.

 

...

 

Hmmm ... interesting remark.

 

 

[Maarof Kassim 0]

I

So that's how it works. By any chance, can someone like Maarof Kassim for instance, upon knowing that he will be on a SV coded flight, make a plea to MAS Charter to be reassigned into MH coded flights?

 

I am not sure whether we could do that. But for me the most important thing now is to get there. I leave the rest to Allah.

[Gavin Andrew David 6]

I think I saw some people on busses being transported to KLIA from the Tabung Haji building 2 days ago with police outriders blocking out the whole 3 lane road coming from Subang Airport .. Pretty cool stuff ..

 

The ' crew ' van had a big sticker on the side of it ' HAJ FLIGHT ONLY ' I believe

 

Looks like a very organized operation !

 

Cheers Nik ...

[Azrin A 2]

MW Spotters, here's the schedules of the Hajj Flights

 

Phase 1

JHB

12 NOV Arr 0525 Dep 0920

 

14 NOV Arr 0555 Dep 1020

Here she is. Photographed departing Senai at 1017hrs (camera time). It was a gloomy morning, was raining earlier. Sorry for the photo quality as I was using al-cheapo camera and also at quite an ackward location. But hey I love it..

Operated as Malaysian 8010 with POB 396. See the effect?

A very heavy take off

 

Idham, where were you?

 

01 DEC Arr 1515 Dep 1845

02DEC Arr 1505 Dep 1735

PEN

26 NOV Arr 1440 dep 1920

27 NOV Arr 1435 Dep 1725

28 NOV Arr 1540 Dep 1955

29 NOV Arr 0515 Dep 1020

30 NOV Arr 0610 Dep 1055

01 DEC Arr 0620 Dep 1055

04 DEC Arr 0625 Dep 1055

05 DEC Arr 0620 Dep 1255

06 DEC Arr 0845 Dep 1155

09 DEC Arr 0625 Dep 1155

BKI

20 NOV Arr 0340 Dep 0610

23 NOV Arr 0605 Dep 0835

KCH

17 NOV Arr 1125 Dep 1355

19 NOV Arr 1125 Dep 1355

 

Phase 2 later.....

 

Happy Spotting.Appreciate of the photos can be forwarded to me or posted on this thread TQ

 

[Nik H. 3]

I see. So there are normal passengers who will be assigned with these premium seats. I guess if the seats' allocation is based on the actual price each pilgrim paid, the F and J cabins would be NOT full in each flight.

So that's how it works. By any chance, can someone like Maarof Kassim for instance, upon knowing that he will be on a SV coded flight, make a plea to MAS Charter to be reassigned into MH coded flights? How is the segregation on which KT will be flown in MH and SV flights being done? I guess it must be on random basis?

 

Some other questions arise.

 

As a proceed from the fact about Malaysian pilgrims preference of MH flights over SV flights due to the 'world's apart' inflight products and services, , you mentioned that the Saudi government has nodded on something about it. Is this relates to the 50-50 split ferrying agreement? Does it means for next year's haj flights, all Malaysian pilgrims will be flown to MED and JED and back on an all MH fleets? If yes, will it be permanent or subject to review after several years? Does the nod that the Saudi government granted only applies to 'MH' or 'Malaysia' (as a country)?

 

I understand that haj charter is subject to annual 'tendering' process, which will be decided by Lembaga Tabung Haji. If the Saudi government's nod is only applies to MH, what will happened if in any years in the future, MH couldn't secure the haj charter tender? Or will the nod secures MAS Charter position as the sole haj charter provider for Malaysian pilgrims?

 

Curiosity kills the cat.

 

Assignments of pilgrims to either SV or MH flights are done by Tabung Haji. Of course there's avenue for appeal for change of airline. But most don't know so while it does happen, the occasions are few.

 

As I said its a bilateral thing. This is common in all G to G negotiations. Routes are normally split 50-50 and the assignment of the 50% is the prerogative of the local Govt; ie Malaysian MOT may decide to grant 25% of the 50% to AK. Thus the 50% applies to Malaysia and not MH.

 

However , the negotiations to obtain rights into Madinah was done by Tabung Haji and the MASCharter Dept, and it would be sad to see other operators benefiting from our sweat and effort.

 

The Hajj contract is tendered out for every three year period. MAS was the operator from the 70s till 1996 after which Transmile Air was awarded the contract. MAS lost the contract due in part to complacency. Transmile wet leased B747-100 to operate and the lack of experience as well as organisation manifested in poor services and numerous disruptions, causing great inconvenience to the pilgrims.

 

Subsequently the contract was won by AK until I formed the Hajj team and won it back for MAS in 2003. Should MAS lose the contract for the Hajj, the same bilateral arrangement will be granted to the new operator of the contract.

 

Even when AK was operating the Hajj, MAS was involved in supplying ground support in Jeddah, as well as granting capacity in excess of AK's capability.

 

The current level of service offered has brought Malaysian Hajj operations to a higher level, and the trust level of the Saudi Hajj authorities is at its max, so much so that of the three other foreign irlines allowed into Madinah,MAS has the highest ratio of flights. Malaysian pilgrims are enjoying facilities that others can only dream of.

 

For that reason, Tabung Haji decided to have tenders based on 'invited' basis only for the 50% granted to Malaysia.

 

It will be a very brave man to grant the contract to an operator other than MAS, as the extra services will definitely be lost.

 

In the case of the Hajj Operations, cheap is not always the most economical way to go.

[Naim 6]

I am not sure whether we could do that. But for me the most important thing now is to get there. I leave the rest to Allah.

 

Well said, Maarof, you are set for The Journey, I'm sure. Everything happens for a reason: just be patient and be ever grateful to God. All the best, and hope to see the occasional posts from the Holy Lands.

 

 

 

[Nik H. 3]

I think I saw some people on busses being transported to KLIA from the Tabung Haji building 2 days ago with police outriders blocking out the whole 3 lane road coming from Subang Airport .. Pretty cool stuff ..

 

The ' crew ' van had a big sticker on the side of it ' HAJ FLIGHT ONLY ' I believe

 

Looks like a very organized operation !

 

Cheers Nik ...

 

10 busses, three outriders, one patrol car, one ambulance, one MAS van ' for Hajj Operations only' and a Kia Carnival for TH officers.

 

The convoy will join the NKVE at the Kelana Jaya intersection onwards to KLIA where the convoy will enter the airside via the ADU gate access directly to the apron entrance of Gate 2.

 

Pilgrims will have to walk only about 97 metres from bus to the aircraft. We measured that.

 

MASCharter HAJJ Operations; it's not just about inflight service........

Edited November 15, 2007 by Nik H.

[Walter Sim 1]

Captain Nik,

 

Fantastic job you done for the pilgrims, i see MASCharter and TH has done absolutely everything for a smooth transition to the holy land. Everything seems to be PERFECT!

[Nik H. 3]

Captain Nik,

 

Fantastic job you done for the pilgrims, i see MASCharter and TH has done absolutely everything for a smooth transition to the holy land. Everything seems to be PERFECT!

 

Thanks for the compliment.

 

But I play a small role only.

 

My team members are the real heroes, from the Hajj Baggage Handler to the Charter Crew and all in between.

[Mushrif A 3]

The Berita Hairan (sp.) clipping mentioned something about new uniforms for the pramugari. Couldn't read the small writings, but can you elaborate on what the revisions to the uniform were?

[Naim 6]

One thing that bothers me is the spiralling cost of going for hajj, which now stands at RM9,000 for the cheapest package for a normal 40-day stay. And yet Tabung Haji still has to subsidize to the tune of RM50mil for this season alone (see HERE).

 

This is a financial burden to the common folks. I wonder what's the cost breakdown for transportation, accommodation, fees, services, etc. Is MH charging too much, say?

 

 

[Nik H. 3]

The Berita Hairan (sp.) clipping mentioned something about new uniforms for the pramugari. Couldn't read the small writings, but can you elaborate on what the revisions to the uniform were?

 

On the subject of Hajj and Charter Uniforms here's the superseded ones.

 

With jacket on.

 

 

On Board During Galley service. Different headscarves denotes rank

 

 

Essentially Charter uniforms but scarves are allowed if the girls want to wear them. On Hajj flights, scarves are mandatory.

 

More on the new uniform later.....

[Meor 0]

NIce uniform... Look so pretty with tudung (jilbab).