AirAsia Founder Likes Workers to Speak Up

[Naim 6]

Tony says:

 

There was one kid who joined us to carry bags, and 18 months later he was a First Officer of a 737. Can you imagine what that does for the motivation in the company? Everyone talks about developing human capital, but we did it.

Good read.

 

.ny

 

+++

 

From AWSJ

May 29, 2006

 

AirAsia Founder Likes Workers to Speak Up

 

Fernandes Tries to Change 'Top-Down' Culture He Sees

Among Managers in Asia

By CRIS PRYSTAY

 

Malaysian Tony Fernandes founded AirAsia, Asia's first low-cost

carrier, in 2001 and expanded the company by setting up joint-venture

airlines in Thailand and Indonesia. Mr. Fernandes, 42 years old,

graduated from the University of London in 1987 with a finance degree

and in 1992 moved back to Malaysia, where he became managing director

of Warner Music Malaysia, and later, vice-president of Warner's

Southeast Asian operations. He quit in 2001 to start AirAsia.

 

One of Malaysia's most outspoken business executives, Mr. Fernandes

not only has strong ideas on the way airlines should be run, but also

how Southeast Asia's top-down corporate culture should change. He

spoke to reporter Cris Prystay about his style.

 

WSJ: What was your first job and what did you learn from it?

 

Mr. Fernandes: My first job was a waiter in London at the Cavendish

Hotel. I was 17. I learned that working was hard and you had to be

professional, even as a waiter. You had other colleagues. If my

performance was poor, it let down the whole team.

 

My first [career] job was as an accountant at an auditor in London. It

was mind-blowingly boring. I was a junior auditor and was photocopying

and adding up rows of columns. The big lesson there: make sure you go

into a job that you enjoy. Otherwise, you don't give any value to your

employer, and you certainly don't add any value to your own mind.

 

WSJ: Who gave you the best business advice?

 

Mr. Fernandes: It was probably Stephen Shrimpton (the former chief

executive officer of Warner Music International) at Warner. I was a

man in a rush. I was 28 when I became the managing director of Warner

Music Malaysia, and I wanted to be the regional MD. I wanted to take

over the world.

 

One night, Steve talked to me outside the Sheraton Hotel in Hong Kong

for three hours. He told me there's no need to rush and that it's

about developing my own personality and making sure I'm ready for the

next job. I see that now: No matter how bright someone is at 25,

there's nothing like experience. He slowed me down, and made me

understand that you need to take time -- to understand the business

better, to understand your people better.

 

WSJ: What's the one thing you wish every new hire knew?

 

Mr. Fernandes: Humility -- and knowing what the real world is like.

The new generation is coming in pretty soft. A lot of these young guys

haven't lived through a recession. There are plenty of jobs out there

and they think, "I can always walk into another job." The hunger and

determination to do their best is sometimes not there.

 

WSJ: Is there a difference between the management culture in Asia and

the West?

 

Mr. Fernandes: The management culture here is very top-down. There's

less creativity and fewer people who are willing to speak out. They're

more implementers than doers. There's less freedom of speech, and that

impacts the business world. Even when they know things are not right,

they won't speak out. They just do what they're told to do.

 

WSJ: What's the biggest management challenge you face?

 

Mr. Fernandes: To get people to think. At AirAsia, we want 4,000

brains working for us. My biggest challenge is to get people to talk,

to express themselves, to get people to challenge me and say "Tony,

you're talking rubbish." That's what I want, not people who say "Yes,

sir." The senior management doesn't have all the answers. I want the

guy on the ramp to have the confidence to tell me what's wrong.

 

WSJ: What are you doing to clear that hurdle?

 

Mr. Fernandes: We have no offices. We dress down. You wear a suit, and

you put distance between you and your staff. We're on a first-name

basis. I go around the office, around the check-in desks, the planes

constantly, talking to people. Fifty percent of my job is managing

people in the company. You get people to open up to you by just asking

them to do it, and then responding to them. You don't send a memo, or

do some "speak up" incentive program. It's got to be from the heart.

 

WSJ: What was the most satisfying decision you've made as a manager?

 

Mr. Fernandes: Once a month, I carry bags with the ramp boys, or I'm

cabin crew, or at the check-in. I do this to get close to the

operation. I also want to know my people. When I first started this, I

met all these bright kids at the check-in or carrying bags. We were

starting this cadet pilot program, and I said, "Let's open it up to

anyone. Let some of these kids apply." They have the brains, but they

just didn't have the money to get the education. Out of the first

batch of 19 cadets, 11 came from within the company. Some of these

boys got the highest marks ever in the flying academy. There was one

kid who joined us to carry bags, and 18 months later he was a First

Officer of a 737. Can you imagine what that does for the motivation in

the company? Everyone talks about developing human capital, but we did

it.

 

===

[Edwin P K 0]

Really? Where do I sign up?!

[Arthur Lee 0]

Mr. Fernandes:....... to get people to challenge me and say "Tony,

you're talking rubbish."

 

Well Tony, you do talk a lot of rubbish !

 

You have managed to convince the authorities to disallow MH to sell domestic supersaver fares by saying budget airlines and conventional airlines fares should not overlap. This is a load of rubbish and you know that. Dont you know sometimes you can find fares on Qantas cheaper than Virgin Blue or JetStar ? As a matter of fact sometimes fares within the same aircraft also overlap, full Y is sometimes more expensive than discounted Biz class. And I have stayed at 5 star hotels for the price of 3 star hotel rates, so what do you say Tony ?

 

And you know what, Tony ? Though you have managed to increase your passenger load by talking rubbish, I for one will be bycotting Air Asia as a protest against all those rubbish you have been saying to support your case.

 

Hope you are reading this Tony !

 

[Walter Sim 1]

what he's doing is just managing from his heart.

 

He does the job with the rest of the team rather than watching the team do it and i think this is one of the most significant thing behind AK's success.

 

How often do you see CEO's greeting you at the airplane door, carrying your bags.

[Sandeep G 1]

Well Tony, you do talk a lot of rubbish !

 

You have managed to convince the authorities to disallow MH to sell domestic supersaver fares by saying budget airlines and conventional airlines fares should not overlap. This is a load of rubbish and you know that. Dont you know sometimes you can find fares on Qantas cheaper than Virgin Blue or JetStar ? As a matter of fact sometimes fares within the same aircraft also overlap, full Y is sometimes more expensive than discounted Biz class. And I have stayed at 5 star hotels for the price of 3 star hotel rates, so what do you say Tony ?

 

And you know what, Tony ? Though you have managed to increase your passenger load by talking rubbish, I for one will be bycotting Air Asia as a protest against all those rubbish you have been saying to support your case.

 

Hope you are reading this Tony !

 

 

I think you will find you will get more response if you responded more elloquently... you make a valid point that would make for a further more interesting discussion, but the manner in which you have delivered it seems more to invalidate your argument, simply because people think that you have a personal grudge against Tony.

 

Tone it down, and then you will be heard more clearly is all i'm really trying to say. Don't try and be a "batu api" here, because it's just a waste of time, when clearly you have something more interesting to discuss..

 

[Tony 1]

 

Well Tony, you do talk a lot of rubbish !

 

You have managed to convince the authorities to disallow MH to sell domestic supersaver fares by saying budget airlines and conventional airlines fares should not overlap. This is a load of rubbish and you know that. Dont you know sometimes you can find fares on Qantas cheaper than Virgin Blue or JetStar ? As a matter of fact sometimes fares within the same aircraft also overlap, full Y is sometimes more expensive than discounted Biz class. And I have stayed at 5 star hotels for the price of 3 star hotel rates, so what do you say Tony ?

 

And you know what, Tony ? Though you have managed to increase your passenger load by talking rubbish, I for one will be bycotting Air Asia as a protest against all those rubbish you have been saying to support your case.

 

Hope you are reading this Tony !

Yes, I'm reading

 

Call it marketing/advertising/publicity. It's just how some people do their business. Perhaps it was a good opportunity and he grabbed it on the spot - very well done from a commercial/business perspective.

 

"Fares within the same aircraft also overlap" - quite normal as part of product differentiation and distribution. If you're lucky (and/or book early enough), you get cheap premium seats; if you come late, you buy full Y fare. There's no free lunch in the world - you have to search hard for those "attractive" fares! Note: QF has 5 fare classes in its J cabin - different prices, different restrictions etc.

 

I agree with Walter. How often do you see a CEO working frontline?

 

[Arthur Lee 0]

but the manner in which you have delivered it seems more to invalidate your argument, simply because people think that you have a personal grudge against Tony.

 

My respect goes to those who talk sense and not assume everyone is and10t. Admittedly, Tony is not the only M'sian CEO who talks rubbish and gets away with it.

 

I am also surprised so many are taken in by gimmick like Tony helping you with your luggage. I for one would appreciate an extra inch of seat recline rather than be part of a gimmick, but then I guess many of you feel privileged to meet a latok.....

 

 

 

Tone it down, and then you will be heard more clearly is all i'm really trying to say. Don't try and be a "batu api" here, because it's just a waste of time, when clearly you have something more interesting to discuss..

 

My message is to Tony, not to you.

 

You dont have to agree with my opinion. If you feel that "I am talking rubbish", prove your point with facts and figures.Please dont be another Tony ........

 

And how have you contributed positively to the discussion ?

 

 

 

 

Call it marketing/advertising/publicity. It's just how some people do their business. Perhaps it was a good opportunity and he grabbed it on the spot - very well done from a commercial/business perspective.

 

The sad part is many people here and the decision makers actually believed him ...........

 

I have stopped flying to Langkawi for my weekend breaks since MH fares are so expensive now. I go to Phuket and Bali instead.

 

[Sandeep G 1]

My message is to Tony, not to you.

 

You dont have to agree with my opinion. If you feel that "I am talking rubbish", prove your point with facts and figures.Please dont be another Tony ........

 

And how have you contributed positively to the discussion ?

The sad part is many people here and the decision makers actually believed him ...........

 

 

 

 

Without a doubt your message is for Tony, but you don't have to flame someone to make a point is all i'm saying. You talk of facts and figures, where are your facts and figures?? Do you know that Qantas red-e-deals are sometimes less than Virgin Blue because they are COMPETITORS and Qantas is an aggressive market player?? Do you also know that following the merger between Jetstar Asia and Valuair of Singapore, that Valuair immediately had to stop services to PER (despite performing well on the sector) so that Qantas didn't have to bleed when selling its tickets on that sector?? The point that LCC and Premium Network carriers should not have overlapping prices is taken out of context in your argument. As part of the rationalisation plan and planned future collaboration between AirAsia and MAS, it would not make commercial sense to have overlapping fares!! If MAS wanted to protest they would! But they were fiscally bleeding on their domestic services (I'm sure you have that committed to knowledge)! So why charge less to compete with AirAsia and be drained of cash and make record losses when you can appeal to a different market (namely the leisure and business) and charge slightly higher prices for domestic tickets and still win?? Are you complaining JUST because you can't fly MAS to LGK for your weekend breaks??? JUST because you don't have a meal or that extra inch of legroom??? My goodness, drive your car to Alor Setar and take the ferry then! OR you could save that bit extra and fly AirAsia for a quick 45 minute flight, have your weekend and be happy..

 

If you want facts and figures you only need to look as far as AirAsia's success to determine the alleged level of "rubbish" that you say Tony speaks..

 

The earlier point I made was not to make any direct contribution to the discussion, it was to simply tell you to "TAKE IT EASY" in as nice a way as possible... I saw the potential in this thread for heated debate due to your comments, so I took the oppurtunity to tone it down.. nothing more, nothing less!

 

 

Edited May 30, 2006 by Sandeep G

[Raj 0]

I for one would appreciate an extra inch of seat recline rather than be part of a gimmick

 

Arthur, u do realise that AK is an LCC..So what u pay for is so little and ur not gonna get a bloody seat with that can be reclined to ur choice..Ofcourse everyone would like a seat which could be reclined to a certain Position but tht's not gonna happen with an LCC like AK...So if you want a seat which can be reclined alot more compared to an LCC u don't fly onboard an LCC, you pay more and u fly on the National Carrier it self..

 

I have stopped flying to Langkawi for my weekend breaks since MH fares are so expensive now. I go to Phuket and Bali instead.

 

First ur against AK and Tony, And u say MH Fares are too Expensive..What's ur Point..How do u get to Phuket or Bali then??

Edited May 30, 2006 by raj

[Mulyadir Fitri 0]

Without a doubt your message is for Tony, but you don't have to flame someone to make a point is all i'm saying. You talk of facts and figures, where are your facts and figures?? Do you know that Qantas red-e-deals are sometimes less than Virgin Blue because they are COMPETITORS and Qantas is an aggressive market player?? Do you also know that following the merger between Jetstar Asia and Valuair of Singapore, that Valuair immediately had to stop services to PER (despite performing well on the sector) so that Qantas didn't have to bleed when selling its tickets on that sector?? The point that LCC and Premium Network carriers should not have overlapping prices is taken out of context in your argument. As part of the rationalisation plan and planned future collaboration between AirAsia and MAS, it would not make commercial sense to have overlapping fares!! If MAS wanted to protest they would! But they were fiscally bleeding on their domestic services (I'm sure you have that committed to knowledge)! So why charge less to compete with AirAsia and be drained of cash and make record losses when you can appeal to a different market (namely the leisure and business) and charge slightly higher prices for domestic tickets and still win?? Are you complaining JUST because you can't fly MAS to LGK for your weekend breaks??? JUST because you don't have a meal or that extra inch of legroom??? My goodness, drive your car to Alor Setar and take the ferry then! OR you could save that bit extra and fly AirAsia for a quick 45 minute flight, have your weekend and be happy..

 

If you want facts and figures you only need to look as far as AirAsia's success to determine the alleged level of "rubbish" that you say Tony speaks..

 

The earlier point I made was not to make any direct contribution to the discussion, it was to simply tell you to "TAKE IT EASY" in as nice a way as possible... I saw the potential in this thread for heated debate due to your comments, so I took the oppurtunity to tone it down.. nothing more, nothing less!

 

Really,really well said!

 

[Tony 1]

oooo~~ I sense heat in here!

 

Okay, Arthur - calm down!

 

Re Tony (yeah, the one you're talking about, not me) helping you with your baggage or at check-in, that's how he promotes the culture within the organisation he looks after, not to impress you. Put simply, it's to motivate his staff, not his pax (maybe it'll make him look good in front of the airline's customers, but that's not the actual objective of it).

 

raj also has a point. AK is an LCC, practically incomparable to MH. And if you've never heard of what Ryanair's policy, it's you get what you paid for. As a matter of fact, if it's not part of the operational requirement, LCCs would not hesitate to remove safety gears from the cabin (e.g. emergency slides & lifejackets), just to cut cost (makes the a/c lighter, saves fuel).

 

And thanks Sandeep for writing that long paragraph of explanation

Try not to compare DJ and AK - because you'd find DJ is a bit more premium (so to speak) than AK. That's mainly because of the market condition in Australia itself. Both DJ and QF had to maintain the 35:65% market share ratio, and there're more negotiations, talks etc going on between the two carriers.

 

Each market is different, and so virtually every airline is exposed to different scenarios. We shouldn't be comparing airline and labelling them as being good or bad airline based on their fares alone. There're lots of things we should think about. e.g. efficiency, share value, market share, product differentiation, unit cost, yield, produces etc etc.

[Raj 0]

 

Re Tony (yeah, the one you're talking about, not me) helping you with your baggage or at check-in, that's how he promotes the culture within the organisation he looks after, not to impress you. Put simply, it's to motivate his staff, not his pax (maybe it'll make him look good in front of the airline's customers, but that's not the actual objective of it).

 

raj also has a point. AK is an LCC, practically incomparable to MH. And if you've never heard of what Ryanair's policy, it's you get what you paid for. As a matter of fact, if it's not part of the operational requirement, LCCs would not hesitate to remove safety gears from the cabin (e.g. emergency slides & lifejackets), just to cut cost (makes the a/c lighter, saves fuel).

 

 

Thanks Tony..

Perfect Point Tony..He is Promoting the Culture with the Organisation..Well Done man..

Edited May 30, 2006 by raj

[Peter Smith 1]

Sandeep:1

Arthur: 0

[zealich 0]

errr.....TOny can we cut the crap.....can I know where to apply for cadet pilot in AK?..

[Arthur Lee 0]

First of all let me clarify that I am not anti-TF or anti-AK, though AK is definitely not my airline of choice and I avoid flying AK whenever possible. I do admire TF's business acumen though I dont idolise him blindly like how some of you do. Infact I agree with everything he said in the AWSJ article posted above, especially on the "Yes Sir" mentality in our society as is evident even on this thread. Whenever someone who is rich & famous says something, everyone seems to believe him outright without even thinking.

 

FACT NO 1

If MAS wanted to protest they would! But they were fiscally bleeding on their domestic services (I'm sure you have that committed to knowledge)!

MH was instructed not to sell domestic supersaver fares. It was not a voluntary move, and they know their load would drop drastically if they could only sell full-fare Y. MH is currently appealing against this directive.

 

 

FACT NO 2

AK has been making profits on their Malaysian operations even when MH was allowed to sell domestic Supersaver fares. Do checkout their P&L account and tell me if I am wrong. Where do you think their profits came from ? Thailand ? AK is only trying to enhance their profits by eliminating MH's domestic Supersaver fares.

 

 

FACT NO 3

So why charge less to compete with AirAsia and be drained of cash and make record losses when you can appeal to a different market (namely the leisure and business) and charge slightly higher prices for domestic tickets and still win??

How is MH going to fill up all their seats with the currents full-fares ? Do you know that with the current Y fares, its more expensive to fly MH (domestically) than QF for the same distance eventhough the cost of doing business is 2-3 times higher in Australia.

 

 

FACT NO 4

JUST because you don't have a meal or that extra inch of legroom???

MH does not serve meals in Y for domestic flights within Peninsula Malaysia, not even coffee/tea or a packet of peanuts (used to) . You only get water, orange juice or cold milo.

 

Goodness, dont you ever fly any airline other than AK !

 

 

FACT NO 5

The point that LCC and Premium Network carriers should not have overlapping prices is taken out of context in your argument.

Not sure what you meant by "out of context" ? Beyond any "cooperation" they must be some form of competition. Even codeshare partners compete with each other on the same aircraft !

 

Both MH and AK are answerable to their shareholders. If AK is allowed to sell fares to LGK for MYR1, why cant MH sell their fares to LGK for MYR100 ?

 

Conventional airline and budget airlines fares overlap, econ fares and biz fares overlap, biz fares and first fares over lap. Similarly budget airline fares and train fares overlap, train fares and bus fares overlap.

 

Should AK be prevented to sell their MYR1 or MYR10 fares because its cheaper than KTM or NICE coach fares ?

 

Seems to me you care more for AK's profit than the consumer/flying public. I can understand it coming from TF but you made it sound as if thats the way it should be. Most countries would encourage competition , ever heard of the anti-competition commission ?

 

 

FACT NO 6

Try not to compare DJ and AK - because you'd find DJ is a bit more premium (so to speak) than AK.

Virgin Blue is a budget airlines just like Air Asia !

 

MH vs AK and QF vs DJ are fair comparisons. What "premium" are you talking about ? Tell that to an Aussie FF !

 

 

FACT NO 7

And u say MH Fares are too Expensive..What's ur Point..How do u get to Phuket or Bali then??

Because MH is not allowed to sell domestic supersaver fares, MH's fares to LGK,HKT and DPS are now quite similar. The cheapest "base" return fares for these destinations are :

 

1) LGK (no meal service) : MYR 410

2) HKT (full meal service) : MYR 400

3) DPS (full meal service) : MYR 450

 

LGK used to be a "cheap" destination, but look at how ridiculous the fares are now. Alright, HKT and DPS being international destinations have higher airport taxes and surcharges which still made them more expensive to fly to than LGK. However, I can still remember the days when flying to DPS and HKT costs 3-5 times more than to LGK.

 

 

MY OTHER RESPONSES

My goodness, drive your car to Alor Setar and take the ferry then!

I dont suppose you know what I mean by "weekend break" ?

 

Sorry I am not as "cheap" as that though I still take econ for short flights. I am there to relax, not spend hours driving and taking the ferry.

 

u do realise that AK is an LCC..So what u pay for is so little and ur not gonna get a bloody seat with that can be reclined to ur choice..

 

When did I ever say I expect AK to provide seats that recline more ? What I said was that an airline with seats that reclined more is more important to me than one with a CEO helping me with my luggage. BTW AK has the worst recline of all budget airlines I have flown.

 

 

Tony (yeah, the one you're talking about, not me) helping you with your baggage or at check-in, that's how he promotes the culture within the organisation he looks after, not to impress you. Put simply, it's to motivate his staff, not his pax (maybe it'll make him look good in front of the airline's customers, but that's not the actual objective of it).

 

While I agree that it would motivate his staff and I applaud him for his efforts , TF is also very PR-savy.

 

In any event, most owner-CEO (especially those who started from scratch) would not hesitate to dirty their hands, just that you dont read about them. Lets not forget it was only 3 years ago that AK had only 2 aircraft or something, and TF has been doing this since . You do it because you want to know what is going on at the "factory floor" i.e. to be hands-on. It sounds so silly to me when you guys say " Hey its so cool, Tony is helping me with my luggage Anyone of you ever received a reply letter from Richard Branson ?

 

 

MY VERDICT

 

I dont mean to sound like a snob but you guys really amazes me with your lack of knowledge . I have been flying since the days of MSA (if any of you even know what it stands for) and I came here looking to tap on the knowledge of pilots, enthusiasts and frequent flyers. What I got are posters who are not even aware of what is taking place in the Malaysian aviation scene (refer Fact No 1 above) but claiming to be experts.

 

I have been interviewing fresh graduates over the last 10-15 years, and its so sad to see the lack of "substance" in our fresh graduates these days. Guys, do remember to post here when you made it to be the next "Tony" !

 

 

 

 

 

[Keith T 2]

Anyone of you ever received a reply letter from Richard Branson ?

 

My friend had a horrible experience with a major US carrier. He didn't want to get a standard form customer service response and as such found the address of the head of customer service and sent her a letter. No response. He promptly tracked down the addresses of every single member of the board and sent them individual letters. Days later he got a meeting with the airline head demanding to know why he was harassing the board members. He responded that as an unhappy customer he ought to let the powers to be know whats going on. Said airline head replied that he was only accountable to shareholders not pax. Needless to say the individual concerned ceased being airline head just a few weeks later.

 

[Sandeep G 1]

Listen Arthur.. you obviously are not getting the point here...

 

no one here 'blindly' follows anything anyone says (in this case, we are talking about TF)... New age CEO's like TF are quite outspoken and very hands on type people.. this you cannot debate upon.. but don't accuse people here of following TF just because he is "rich or famousl"...

 

Nobody here is saying "yes sir", people are debating the point. If you feel you are so senior and must impose your thoughts and values upon everyone here in this forum and dismiss other ways of thought which are contrary to yours, then I suggest you keep quiet or leave.

 

Not having "super-savers" does not mean MH can't sell tickets less than full fare.. I think you will find this with many airlines!!! MAS HAS BEEN MAKING LOSSES ON DOMESTIC OPERATIONS! ALL DOMESTIC OPERATIONS WERE SUBSIDISED BY THE GOVERNMENT THROUGH PMB c/o MINISTER OF FINANCE INC!!!!! MAS sold super-saver fares to compete with AK, HOWEVER, they did so based on an effort to maintain PLF!!! MAS for years prior to the BTP has been operating on a loss basis and the domestic ops were largely to blame (don't forget that MAS despite being subsidised by PMB for domestic ops still has to report the full financial picture to shareholders, I'm sure you being so senior and educated you must understand this concept!) In essence, the MAS super-saver fares merely increased the loss made by MAS...

 

NOW, MAS is restricted from selling Super-Saver fares because of the way in which they were used by the airline, which worsened fiscal performance... They sold Super-savers during peak demand period... basic supply and demand laws were not adhered.. ask anyone in MAS, and they will tell you themselves that MAS has been mismanaged over the past few years!

 

On TF creating a monopoly for AK?? WHAT THE HELL PLANET ARE YOU ON MR. LEE???? Welcome to the democratic world of a "globalised and free economy"... (I'm being sarcastic BTW)... There will always be market inefficiencies, that is how the economy works.. AK seeking a monopoly for themselves consolidates their position and improves their financial performance!!! WHY WOULDN'T THEY!??!:!?!?!?!??!!?! The only competition at the moment is MAS, who is not performing well!! So why can't AirAsia seek a monopoly??? Coming back to the standard example in this thread, Qantas has a monopoly on Australia-USA.. the Australian government continually denies SIA the rights to fly between Australia and USA... BUT on the other hand, Australia has an open skies agreement with Singapore which allows QF rights to anywhere in the world from Singapore!!! hmmmmm does it not seem like QF has a monopoly???

 

We heard talk of TigerAir opening a Malaysia branch.. will it happen? who knows? maybe? will TF protest?? DAMN RIGHT HE WILL, why should the Singaporeans have access to our economy? Would it be good for the consumer? ABSOLUTELY!!! See how many ups and downs there are Arthur? What the government decides in the end, people have to live with... Unfortunately, MAS does not have the right to "manage" themselves 100% as the government always gives its own two cents on how the airline should be run.. THAT THERE SIR, IS THE PROBLEM WITH MAS!

 

THE REBUTTAL:

 

Sir, you are a "snob", and you have clearly shown it... nobody hear has said that they are an "expert" (I beleive you were referring to me with this regard).. You have taken the liberty to assume so, and for that, I am most grateful... but sir, I do not nor will I ever consider myself an expert... This is an industry where we all must keep learning no matter what... that is why we are members, and I am most irritated with your pathetic attempts at trying to be superior and labelling people in this forum "as idiots" as is indicated by your words:

 

but you guys really amazes me with your lack of knowledge. What I got are posters who are not even aware of what is taking place in the Malaysian aviation scene (refer Fact No 1 above) but claiming to be experts.

 

 

Furthermore, in a business such as this, yes sir, profits and returns are important for future growth and sustainability of our local Malaysian Aviation scene.. if there were none, we will all be flying south to go north! Passenger comfort and ammenities (which is what you are arguing for) are mere products... Safety and wellbeing of passengers is of upmost importance and never once did I say anything contrary to this!

 

 

Finally, you wouldn't know substance if it hit you in the face!

Edited May 31, 2006 by Sandeep G

[Bing Chu 0]

Sandeep:1

Arthur: 0

Are you still keeping score ?

[Gavin Andrew David 6]

Heaven alone knows why he's getting so angry ..

 

[Raj 0]

Arthur, good on you..You may know alot good for u..

Wow, u can even say we have lack of Knowledge..What large amounts of Knowledge do u have..???

 

Well Firstly i would like to Bum u Out if with all ur Knowledge u know what this means..

MSA happens to stand for Malaysia Singapore Airlines..So yea u should just ger u facts rite before u decide to say Sumthing..We do happen to have some amounts of Knowledge..

 

Bro who claimed to Be Experts aye??

Ofcourse we are aware of what is happening in the Malaysian Aviation Scene..These Stuff all come out in papers, News..Some memebers even Post them up in the Forum..So we do know what is happening but not all of us may know everything it in detail..So u may know everything and I congart u on that..

But just don't make it look as If you Know Everything.. <_>

[Y C LEONG 1]

ermmm... i also wanna drop my 2 cents ere.. ryanair seats you cant even recline a single milimeter.. so i would say air asia isnt the worst lcc in this world unless sir lee you as an expert never board any ryanair's flight in this couple of yrs.. then you can compare the service, products of european LCCs and air asia's products which what you did earlier.. you may say you have been onboard a ryanair's flight in the 90s.. but that is the past dude.. you have travelled since the MSA age doesnt mean how much knowledge you have.. my dad was also travelling at that time.. does that mean he will have vast knowledge on the malaysian aviation industry? you are basically making a very childish assumption here in which a 10 year old child would make.. i m sure you arent enjoying your experience in this forum.. and we would love to make you feel as comfortable as possible in this forum and hv pleasant moments.. and seems like our knowledge here isnt compatible to yours.. so maybe you can move to other forums that suits you more.. perhaps airliners.net so you can show the world your rich knowledge in the aviation industry..

 

that's all.. thank you for sharing your knowedge wor..

[Bing Chu 0]

Heaven alone knows why he's getting so angry ..

 

Who you mean, Sandeep or Arthur ?!

[Arthur Lee 0]

Not having "super-savers" does not mean MH can't sell tickets less than full fare.. I think you will find this with many airlines!!!

AFAIK the directive was sell only full-Y fare and above.

 

In essence, the MAS super-saver fares merely increased the loss made by MAS................

 

NOW, MAS is restricted from selling Super-Saver fares because of the way in which they were used by the airline, which worsened fiscal performance... They sold Super-savers during peak demand period... basic supply and demand laws were not adhered................

 

Finally, you wouldn't know substance if it hit you in the face!

I am sure this would hit you in the face ....

 

Quote from MAS media release dated 16 March 2006 :

 

We have also been asked by the Government to cease our 'Supersavers' scheme from Monday next week. The scheme was to cater for low sales period and targeted at a unique customer segment who want low price and 'value-for-money' offer. We have been assured that the losses incurred by its cessation will be borne by the Government. We would like to assure our customers that we will honour all the sales we have made todate under this scheme.

http://hq.malaysiaairlines.com/mh/eng/abou...CA-661AA32990CD

 

Its seems MH will incur losses due to the cessation of the Supersavers scheme

 

So why can't AirAsia seek a monopoly???

OMG I cant believe what I am reading. In the developed world there are various legislations prohibiting monopoly of any kind.

 

I can almost hear TF laughing in the background.....

 

If you want facts and figures you only need to look as far as AirAsia's success to determine the alleged level of "rubbish" that you say Tony speaks..

What has a firm's profit got to do with whether the CEO "talks rubbish" or not ? There are plenty of CEOs talking rubbish out there and they are making big profits, infact the more "rubbish" the more profit !

 

Coming back to the standard example in this thread, Qantas has a monopoly on Australia-USA..

Not true. Apart from QF, UA and NZ also fly the Aust-US route

 

And if you are a mileage junkie, you can even fly SQ,CX,TG or MH

 

MSA happens to stand for Malaysia Singapore Airlines..So yea u should just ger u facts rite before u decide to say Sumthing..We do happen to have some amounts of Knowledge..

Oh ok, I am impressed you know what MSA stands for; and I am sorry I didnt get my facts right because you do know what it stands for

 

Yes, you do have some "knowledge" but you didnt know what the term "sarcastic" means !

 

ryanair seats you cant even recline a single milimeter.. so i would say air asia isnt the worst lcc in this world unless sir lee you as an expert never board any ryanair's flight in this couple of yrs..

No, I have never flown Ryanair and I dont intend to fly them. I usually fly BA in Europe, why fly Ryanair when BA fares are so cheap and you dont have to go to some obscure airport in the middle of nowhere.

 

I am sorry I dont get your point here. I have repeatedly said that I was not asking AK to increase their recline, just that AK had the worst recline I have ever experienced. I am sorry I am not "privileged" enough to fly Ryanair if that makes you happy

 

Sir, you are a "snob", and you have clearly shown it...

Hhmm resorting to name-calling eh Ok let me show you what being a snob is all about :

 

Sandeep, its ok to call me a snob because I can afford to be a snob. Question is whether you can even be one ! You see while some people have to sit on the floor in the LCC terminal, others sits in the Golden Lounge and sip champagne. And you know why I enjoy flying in First/Biz on a B737, of all aircrafts ? Its because while I enjoy my guava juice, guys like you have to walk past my cabin and can only envy my seat. But wait, you are flying AK and you are boarding that red aircraft at the warehouse they call LCC terminal. Nevermind, if you promise to behave I will bring you into the Golden Lounge one of these days.

 

OK, thats very cruel and I apologise to all readers offended by the above, except to that guy who called me a snob

 

MSA happens to stand for Malaysia Singapore Airlines..So yea u should just ger u facts rite before u decide to say Sumthing..We do happen to have some amounts of Knowledge..

Oh ok, I am impressed you know what MSA stands for; and I didnt get my facts right because you do know what it stands for

 

Yes, you do have some "knowledge" but do you know what the term "sarcastic remark" means

Edited May 31, 2006 by Arthur Lee

[Tony 1]

With all due respect, I did not claim expertise on anything at all. I'm here because I want to learn something from everyone with experience in different areas/industries and of different views.

 

I'm simply saying what's on my mind, hopefully brainstorming ideas of the topics we're discussing.

 

Ok, I would admit that I "lack the knowledge" but I believe you're asking for too much for wanting fresh grads to be "experienced". They are, errmmm, "fresh"?

[Walter Sim 1]

i think this is turning out to be quite a heated topic.

 

As for Arthur, i find your post rather offensive to anyone also to Sandeep or towards everybody.

 

Do not QUOTE this statement and shoot me like theres no tomorow because i admit that i am just a 17 year old who does not know anything JUST trying to learn something from here if thats the purpose. I find it unfair that you rebutt all statements here in an unduly manner and calling people not KNOWLEDGABLE.

 

MY VERDICT

 

I dont mean to sound like a snob but you guys really amazes me with your lack of knowledge . I have been flying since the days of MSA (if any of you even know what it stands for) and I came here looking to tap on the knowledge of pilots, enthusiasts and frequent flyers. What I got are posters who are not even aware of what is taking place in the Malaysian aviation scene (refer Fact No 1 above) but claiming to be experts.

 

I have been interviewing fresh graduates over the last 10-15 years, and its so sad to see the lack of "substance" in our fresh graduates these days. Guys, do remember to post here when you made it to be the next "Tony" !

 

 

That statement is what i call snobbish and i am not surprised that Sandeep is calling you a snob. And no one is claiming to be experts. This is a free country i am very sure that everyone has its right to express their points and opinions with or without errors its just the part of parcel of life. Arthur, i know that you are someone who is very 'knowledgable','knows what you're talking about', 'flies first and business class where someone does not even have the chance to fly', but please your replies are a mile away and without disrespect contrary to your potrayal as a profilic and experienced proffesional.

 

Not KNOWLEDGABLE does not mean we are prohibited from sharing our thoughts. We might be wrong, and being wrong IMO is a part of the learning process. But the fact that you just attack (well, i think you do) on peoples comment is just pathetic and it seriously destroys the friendly atmosphere we are trying to create in the forum and i am sure that you know that too. I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but i find your replies very very snobbish and infact childish for someone who has that level of seniority.

 

Please do not quote this or attack and please if more heated replies are heard here, i would suggest that the MODS lock this topic and your opinions can be brought to instant messengers outside the forum.

Edited May 31, 2006 by Walter Sim