Mulyadir Fitri 0 Report post Posted October 3, 2013 Yesterday, 2/10/13, KLM810 requested for RTB and fuel dumping due to a failure in their onboard weather radar. There were a few exchanges between them and the ATC as they were seeking clearance to dump fuel. In the midst of that, MH2 decided to help. Fast forward to 5.04 for that particular part. MH2: Err, diorang tu banyak nak kena buang minyak. Lagi tinggi lagi bagus. Lagi pun banyak minyak nak kena buang tu. ATC: Lagi tinggi ke lagi rendah minyak nak kena buang tu. MH2: Lagi tinggi lagi cepat dia buang minyak. Lagi tinggi dia buang minyak lagi, takde effect negeri kita. ATC: OK, copy. Thank you (Laughing) ATC: Maksudnya sekarang buang minyak aa on the way ni lah? MH2:Sekarang dia dah boleh buang minyak ATC: OK Malaysian 2 terima kasih. (Translation) MH2: Err, they need to dump a lot of fuel. The higher the better coz they need to dump a lot of fuel. ATC: So should they go higher or lower to dump? MH2: The higher they go the faster they dump. The higher they dump, it will not affect our country ATC: OK, copy. Thank you (Laughing) ATC: So should they dump now or on the way later? MH2: They can dump straightaway now. ATC: OK Malaysian 2 thank you Youtube Video Credit to User MASwengs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newitt 0 Report post Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) I don't get it, in what way did MH2 assist? Relaying ATC calls? Scanning the sky ahead for weather?Controller needs to brush up on his English a little... and his accent too. Edited October 3, 2013 by Newitt Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mulyadir Fitri 0 Report post Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) I don't get it, in what way did MH2 assist? Relaying ATC calls? Scanning the sky ahead for weather? Controller needs to brush up his English a little... and his accent too. English yes. Accent no. You don't have to be speaking like a Brit to be an effective controller. Enunciation is the key Edited October 3, 2013 by Mulyadir Fitri Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johan Z 0 Report post Posted October 3, 2013 I've been watching Maswengs's videos on YouTube. ATC's English is a bit sad. They need to be clearer, but most of the time you only hear mumbling in strong Malay accent. Even Taiwanese ATC are miles better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Izanee 0 Report post Posted October 3, 2013 aiyo, bloody hell, KLIA weather radar not working or what? malu lah, asking KLM to use AK weather radar cos control tower is blind Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zamim 0 Report post Posted October 3, 2013 I also don't get it and what kind of help did MH2 provide except cluttered the radio. 1. Why MH2 and ATC communicated in bahasa 2. Fuel dump or jettison can de accomplished at any height over water except a minimum height of 6000ft over land or populated areas. Also not allowed in clouds 3. Where was KL810, was it out of radio contact 4. KLIA ATC is familiar with fuel jettison and have enough experience to handle without MH2 inputs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Naim 6 Report post Posted October 4, 2013 Been listening to ATC all over the world - ours are pretty good. Try listening to the JFK blokes, or even the Istanbul guys. Btw I think MH2 was unnecessary voice traffic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandeep G 1 Report post Posted October 7, 2013 Errr... Air Turn-Back (ATB) not Ramp Turn-back (RTB) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mulyadir Fitri 0 Report post Posted October 7, 2013 What I meant was Returning To Base. But yeah, ATB is the correct term Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ameq 0 Report post Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) She was in Hangar 6 yesterday for a short period of time. Technical ppl from KLM themself repaired the wx radar. IMG_20131006_165021 by ameqhd46, on Flickr IMG_20131006_165028 by ameqhd46, on Flickr Edited October 7, 2013 by Ameq Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandeep G 1 Report post Posted October 7, 2013 aiyo, bloody hell, KLIA weather radar not working or what? malu lah, asking KLM to use AK weather radar cos control tower is blind This is not the control tower - This is Kuala Lumpur Area Control Centre (ACC) situated behind T3 in Subang. FYI, even Singapore ACC radar controllers are unable to provide weather radar deviation services with the present equipment installed. The use of another aircraft is perfectly fine and has been done on many occasions in the past. The Tower does indeed have access to Meteorological department doppler weather radar which you would see located abeam the ELITE highway atop a hill - looks life a golf-ball on a tee. However, I believe this is for guidance and awareness only and primarily used by the Met officer to issue trend type forecasts associated with half-hourly METARs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Izanee 0 Report post Posted October 7, 2013 Ah thanks for clarifying that Sandeep! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Radzi 2 Report post Posted October 7, 2013 So that must be the KLM B777 I saw at the cargo apron this morning, with a white nose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BC Tam 2 Report post Posted October 7, 2013 Always wanted to know why do they need to switch nose cones about ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Waiping 12 Report post Posted October 7, 2013 After a nose job you keep it wrap for awhile. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Goh 1 Report post Posted October 8, 2013 Is it true fuel dumping is faster at higher altitudes? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Naim 6 Report post Posted October 8, 2013 Is it true fuel dumping is faster at higher altitudes? Fuel vaporises as it falls. So the higher the plane is the more complete the vaporisation is, so can dump at faster rate, and none should reach the ground to impact the environment. That's why the MH2 guy said: "MH2: The higher they go the faster they dump. The higher they dump, it will not affect our country." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tamizi Hj Tamby 1 Report post Posted October 8, 2013 "Yakushima"? That's a B777-300ER,From what i've checked,since there's a 1:400 scale version of her. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Goh 1 Report post Posted October 8, 2013 Fuel vaporises as it falls. So the higher the plane is the more complete the vaporisation is, so can dump at faster rate, and none should reach the ground to impact the environment. That's why the MH2 guy said: "MH2: The higher they go the faster they dump. The higher they dump, it will not affect our country." Thanks, just wonder is it the fuel jettison effect or what Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zamim 0 Report post Posted October 9, 2013 There are ATB, RTB, RTC and other terms used by different operators and authorities. Examples:- Air turn back (ATB) is usually associated for aircraft returning to point of departure, whereas, return to base (RTB) is also associated for aircraft returning to point of departure but normally if the point of departure is the home base for that particular operator, eg KLIA is home base for MAS, thus, if an aircraft returns to KUL after departure then it can be classified as RTB also. Return to chocks (RTC) is when an aircraft returns to gate or bay whilst still on the ground. In USA, normally, it is called return to ramp (RTR) Fuel vaporises as it falls. So the higher the plane is the more complete the vaporisation is, so can dump at faster rate, and none should reach the ground to impact the environment. That's why the MH2 guy said: "MH2: The higher they go the faster they dump. The higher they dump, it will not affect our country." As far as I knew, there is nothing mentioned in FCOM that the higher you are the better the rate of jettisoning. The altitude recommended of 6000ft as example is correct for fuel vaporisation if jettison over populated areas. But over the sea, it could be jettisoned at any altitude. I have flown Airbus, Douglas and Boeings aircraft, the rate of jettison depends upon number of jettison pumps in used. For, DC10, the rate is consistent since all jettison pumps are used. but for B747 Classic, the jettison rate depends on the number of pumps and depends also on the amount of fuel to be jettisoned. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newitt 0 Report post Posted October 9, 2013 So MH2 butting in was unnecessary radio chatter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mulyadir Fitri 0 Report post Posted October 9, 2013 As far as I knew, there is nothing mentioned in FCOM that the higher you are the better the rate of jettisoning. The altitude recommended of 6000ft as example is correct for fuel vaporisation if jettison over populated areas. But over the sea, it could be jettisoned at any altitude. I have flown Airbus, Douglas and Boeings aircraft, the rate of jettison depends upon number of jettison pumps in used. For, DC10, the rate is consistent since all jettison pumps are used. but for B747 Classic, the jettison rate depends on the number of pumps and depends also on the amount of fuel to be jettisoned. What about the newer jets? Can you dictate the number of pumps being used or are the jettison rate constant? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zamim 0 Report post Posted October 10, 2013 What about the newer jets? Can you dictate the number of pumps being used or are the jettison rate constant? For B777, the time required for jettison - 2500kg/ min if fuel in centre tank but 1400kg/min if centre tank is empty. Not sure on A330 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ahmad M 1 Report post Posted October 10, 2013 No fuel dumping facility available on the A330. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zamim 0 Report post Posted October 10, 2013 No fuel dumping facility available on the A330. It's an option. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites