RMAF : Eurofighter Typhoon to replace MiG-29N?

[Fitri Shukri 0]

From The Malaysia Insider

 

Eurofighters might replace MiGs, says Zahid Hamidi

July 24, 2011

KOTA TINGGI, July 24 — Royal Malaysian Air Force (RMAF) might replace its MiG aircrafts with the Eurofighter Typhoon multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA).

 

Minister of Defence Datuk Seri Dr Ahmad Zahid Hamidi said the 10 Russian-made MiG-29s were nearing the end of their service period and the RM3 billion Eurofighter may fit the bill.

 

The ministry is evaluating it for capabilities and specifications, according to Bernama Online.

 

The minister said the Eurofighter while expensive was the best jet fighter. He was speaking after an Umno membership drive by Tenggara Umno today.

 

He did admit that the nation’s finances would help determine the likelihood of any purchase.

 

Also on the ministry’s radar are the Sukhoi SU-35, FA-18 Super Hornet and JAS Gripen, said Zahid Hamidi.

 

Lets help the Defence Minister make his selection...

 

I choose the Su-35 to pair with JAS 39NG Gripen.

[Rob 0]

Rafale and Typhoon for me. I guess it's time for RMAF to look to Europe for air defense.

[BC Tam 2]

RM3 billion per unit ?!

[Waiping 12]

I suggest water cannon & armored vehicles. They may need this more often than fighter jets.

[Lock SH 0]

The company that offer the highest commission WINS ............ hardware capabilities is secondary ...........

 

 

[flee 5]

The company that offer the highest commission WINS ............ hardware capabilities is secondary ...........

 

 

Absolutely - this Defence Minister is still looking for his big commission...

 

 

Seriously, I think the RMAF should avoid Russian aircraft and learn from their MiG-29 mistake. Indonesia learnt that years ago with the MiG-17. India hedged their bets by producing their own spare parts. So although the aircraft may be cheaper to buy, it will cost more to run. So the TCO is higher.

 

The Typhoon can replace both the MiG-29 as well as the SU-30 when that plane becomes too problematic to maintain. So, they should maybe order 20-30 of them.

Edited July 25, 2011 by flee

[Ignatius 4]

Typhoon has supercruise to help it fly faster than the speed of sound without afterburners.. fuel saving!!!

[Fitri Shukri 0]

Typhoon has supercruise to help it fly faster than the speed of sound without afterburners.. fuel saving!!!

 

IMHO, the Typhoon, Rafale aand Su-35 (latest version, still under testing) have 'supercruise'.

 

In the poll above, I didn't include the F-22 which the US won't even sell to their closest allies and the F-35 which Malaysia might not even stand a chance of getting any promotional brochures from Lockheed

 

Buying the most advance figghter aircrat alone is not enough. Malaysia seriously needs AEW&C / AWACS aircraft to complement what fighter it has.

 

BTW, as in Libya, its the Rafales that is the star of the campaign.

 

In terms of cost, Saab JAS-39 Gripen is the most cost effective in terms of price per unit, operational cost and simplicty of operations (can operate from roads). Which is why Thailand bought a few units as a precursor to purchasing a few squadron later on to replace their F-16s.

 

I think for a country like Malaysia, purchasing JAS-39 with AEW&C and adding a few more refueling aerial tankers (Malaysia has two C-130 converted to tankers) is better than a standalone Typhoon squadron.

[Tamizi Hj Tamby 1]

Probably it's time to acquire A330 tankers to support the current 2 C-130 tankers?

 

Just my opinion though

Edited July 25, 2011 by Tamizi Hj Tamby

[Fitri Shukri 0]

Probably it's time to acquire A330 tankers to support the current 2 C-130 tankers?

 

Just my opinion though

 

Convert MH A330 into tankers

[ywkong 0]

Absolutely - this Defence Minister is still looking for his big commission...

 

 

Seriously, I think the RMAF should avoid Russian aircraft and learn from their MiG-29 mistake. Indonesia learnt that years ago with the MiG-17. India hedged their bets by producing their own spare parts. So although the aircraft may be cheaper to buy, it will cost more to run. So the TCO is higher.

 

The Typhoon can replace both the MiG-29 as well as the SU-30 when that plane becomes too problematic to maintain. So, they should maybe order 20-30 of them.

 

Overall, management wise, Sukhoi is a better company compare to Mikoyan and russian government already merged MIkoyan & Sukhoi under the same company group.

So, after sales service especially parts/engine replacement & overhaul would have improved tremendously.

 

IMO, I would say:

 

1. Maintain existing Sukhoi-30MKMs, with mid-life upgrade to extend the air frame,engine life-time & AESA radar.

2. Buy new Sukhoi-35s, since we already had experince in operating sukhoi aircraft, and the maintenance infrastructure can be shared.

3. Also, Sukhoi is the only russian company that has an actual 5th generation (PAK FA T50) fighter under flight testing & development.

4. And the BEST part is that, malaysia government can offset the deal with another Malaysia Astronaut

[Radzi 2]

Please do not order any defense equipment until after the next general election. It could be cheaper; on the other hand, the commission could be a lot fatter.

Edited July 25, 2011 by Radzi

[Ignatius 4]

I personally think we don't need to upgrade at all, I mean who are we fighting or protecting against? It's sad that these million/billion dollar taxpayer funded toys are only used in exercise bersama, big day fly-by's and static displays in airbases open days. What the airforce really need are more heavy duty patrol planes and helicopters to protect our waters from pirates and illegal immigrant. Look at where these fighter planes are even based at.. should any intruder/war mongers attack us in Sabah and Sarawak (their main fix deposits) and scrambling from Kuantan or Butterworth will only be a damage report mission rather than any good use of defence.

 

But if we are to really replace those old chunks of Mig metal, I would like to see minimal purchases just enough to form ONE squadron regardless of types. I mean we have only 8 hornets and that is more than enough I reckon, so any purchases at minimal order is at the best interest of the country. Not like they'd let you see the whole fleet in airshows anyway.. <_>

 

And yes, please only order after the next General Election

Edited July 25, 2011 by Ignatius

[flee 5]

We are a cynical lot aren't we? We are questioning the integrity of the Defence Minister, etc. But we are the product of our govt. So isn't this a bad reflection of what the govt. has done in the past 50 years?

 

Yes, Iggy is right. Our RMAF fighters are only there for show. In a real war, they won't last a day or two...

 

I would say that we should buy more C-130s, A400Ms, Super Pumas, etc. At least these utility aircraft are a lot more useful than whatever fighters that we buy. Plus, they are a lot cheaper too!

[KC Sim 2]

Fully agree with Ignatius and Francis Lee ... there is little point investing heavily in fighters that will never see real service (and thank goodness for that).

 

Instead, the investment should go into heavy transport planes and helicopters that could be used in disaster relief work ... or maritime patrol aircraft that could protect the sealanes around Malaysia (in co-operation with other ASEAN neighbours).

 

KC Sim

[suadrif 0]

Fully agree with Ignatius and Francis Lee ... there is little point investing heavily in fighters that will never see real service (and thank goodness for that).

 

Instead, the investment should go into heavy transport planes and helicopters that could be used in disaster relief work ... or maritime patrol aircraft that could protect the sealanes around Malaysia (in co-operation with other ASEAN neighbours).

 

KC Sim

 

 

if they can thinks rationally and no $$$ involved...

[BC Tam 2]

Please do not order any defense equipment until after the next general election

 

And yes, please only order after the next General Election

 

You don't believe in making hay while the sun shines ?!

[Waiping 12]

Yes, Iggy is right. Our RMAF fighters are only there for show. In a real war, they won't last a day or two...

 

That's because someone sold off the engines! I bet once they got the quoted price they would have sat down and analyse how much they could gain by selling them off piece by piece.

 

I would say that we should buy more C-130s, A400Ms, Super Pumas, etc. At least these utility aircraft are a lot more useful than whatever fighters that we buy. Plus, they are a lot cheaper too!

 

Get some super scooper to help with the wild fires!

[Hakan 2]

as far as I know, Typhoon is noot like much in RAF pilots. I don't remember where I read or wathced but RAF pilots says that " eurofighter is not easy tu use plane and not much effective" . Honestly, EADS is pushing to use in common country airforces for getting back billion euros investment budget, thats all. The same as RAFALE! both plane are not "new" airplanes and never proof to capability against competitor fighters. JAS39 Grippen also not much selling outside of Sweden also not proof to capability either!

F16 never be into competition even they are rebuilt over rebuilt as namle "blocks"!!! F16 basic design is "aged" anymore, whatever you changed avionics or weapon systems, F16 is F16 ...single fighters! I'm sure tropical regions is not safe for single engine aircraft with high humidty and temperature.

 

In my opinion, there are two choises seems like to best choises for RMAF. I don't know in fact are they satisfy to use F18 and Russian planes but if they had already all background suitable for F18 and Russian support, they should be continue the same way. You have already trained pilots and ground staff in both planes. You don't need to make investment about retraining in all facilities.BEsides, warfare codes is the main problem. We are living several problems with USA about F16 warfare codes in the past also now the same story in F35 JSF program. First problem was FLIR system for night flight in the past. USA and General Dynamics did won't to give weapon and system codes to Turkey. After that last year the same argumenst lived on JSF F35.Turkey has own missiles can be suitable on all fighters and we would like to assign own national codes. USA goverment refused to give codes or change codes proccesing , nothing solved right now and probably we will get "empty tin planes" on JFS program without computer codes! what a great deal!!!!

 

Thatswhy RMAF must be carefull about warfare codes. I think Russians would be much helpfull about deveopment and assignment of if able Malaysian own warfare softwares.

[Fahiruz 0]

Thatswhy RMAF must be carefull about warfare codes. I think Russians would be much helpfull about deveopment and assignment of if able Malaysian own warfare softwares.

 

cannot jailbreak/root/flash rom eh? lol

Edited July 25, 2011 by Fahiruz

[flee 5]

RMAF should also not forget about UAVs for maritime patrol and spying on Bersih supporters.

[Majdi 0]

you guys of course are aware that, the real defense people don't decide on the hardware purchase... the people who will not go to the frontline do...

[Fitri Shukri 0]

Please do not order any defense equipment until after the next general election. It could be cheaper; on the other hand, the commission could be a lot fatter.

 

With the 'biometric system' to be introduced in the coming general election, we can count that the next defence minister and prime minister could most probably be the same guy!

[flee 5]

From Wikipedia:

In 1988, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Armed Forces told the UK House of Commons that the European Fighter Aircraft would "be a major project, costing the United Kingdom about £7 billion". It was soon apparent that a more realistic estimate was £13 billion, made up of £3.3 billion development costs plus £30 million per aircraft. By 1997 the estimated cost was £17 billion; by 2003, £20 billion, and the in-service date (2003; defined as the date of delivery of the first aircraft to the RAF) was 54 months late. After 2003 the Ministry of Defence have refused to release updated cost estimates on the grounds of 'commercial sensitivity', however in 2011 the National Audit Office estimated the UK's "total programme cost [would] eventually hit £37 billion".

 

By 2007, Germany estimated the system cost (aircraft, training plus spare parts) to €120m and said it was in perpetual increase. On 17 June 2009, Germany ordered 31 aircraft of Tranche 3A for €2,800m, leading to a system cost of €90m per aircraft.

 

The UK's Committee of Public Accounts reported that the mismanagement of the project had helped increase the cost of each aircraft by 75 percent. Defence Secretary Liam Fox responded that "I am determined that in the future such projects are properly run from the outset, and I have announced reforms to reduce equipment delays and cost overruns

 

Germany is paying €90m (RM 387m) for each of their Eurofighters. It looks like the Malaysia will be buying the most expensive version of the Eurofighter Typhoon, at RM 3b each, approx 10 times more...

[Majdi 0]

Germany is paying €90m (RM 387m) for each of their Eurofighters. It looks like the Malaysia will be buying the most expensive version of the Eurofighter Typhoon, at RM 3b each, approx 10 times more...

 

 

are we at war? are we on alert for war? and with just 10-15 aircraft? do you really want to go to war with those numbers?

whatever hardware the forces posses right now, just go for upgrades or status quo. all that purported costs should be channeled to the nations education and healthcare, which is of paramount importance...