Spotters as Security Agents (instead of as pests)

[Attan 0]

Will MAB give us a special site with armchairs and cabanas in exchange for taking care of their perimeter fences? Here's an interesting development in Manchester according to www.aviationtoday.com .

 

 

Airplane 'Spotters' Could Be Extra Resource to Help Security

 

Airport Security Report:

 

They hang around airports or just beyond the fence observing aircraft, making written notes and taking photos with a telephoto lens. They keep track of arrival and departure times, the schedules of individual craft, and share this information with others like them. But they're definitely not terrorists.

 

They're "spotters" -- aviation enthusiasts who spend much of their leisure time observing planes. Generally, they're tolerated by airport management. Sometimes they're hassled. But no one in the United States appears to have given much thought to officially encouraging spotters so they can report unusual or suspicious goings-on.

 

On the other hand, there has been outreach to spotters in the United Kingdom (UK). The Greater Manchester Police (GMP), for example, has been working with spotters at Manchester Airport (MAN) in the UK for the last 12 months, a GMP spokesman tells Airport Security Report. As part of a general community outreach initiative dubbed "Operation Chimera," that effort includes posters displayed around the airport, a special phone line for spotters, and twice-yearly meetings between airport representatives and spotters.

 

Although there are spotters in both the United States and Europe, Airport Security Report's informal survey of spotter Web sites indicates there is more organized spotter activity in Europe.

 

But in keeping with the UK's tight-lipped policies on security matters, spokesmen with both MAN and the UK Department for Transport (DFT) declare that they cannot discuss anything related to aviation security (Airport Security Report, Nov. 16, p. 3).

 

Then again, the situation in Manchester appears to be way ahead of spotter-airport relations anywhere in the United States. Far from being considered as potential partners in airport security, U.S. spotters are often regarded with suspicion. Former UK-resident Geoff Cook, who now lives in Newport, R.I., and carries on with his hobby at both T.F. Green Airport (PVD) in Warwick, R.I., and Boston Logan Int'l (BOS), says that he and his fellow spotters have long been known to airport security staff. But after 9/11, "all of a sudden we were vermin."

 

 

[Fitri Shukri 0]

I believe it is every spotters dream that such arrangement becomes a reality, including here in Malaysia.

However, aviation security is not confined to airport perimeters. It is far more important in what is happening inside the airport terminal, the aircraft hangers and on the tarmac. This is where the bigger security challenge exists.

[Norman 1]

True as Fitri put it, but don't the security tasks are some what reduced

at points where spotters are known to make their "office"..

 

Here it's as an enhancement, not out-sourcing...

Edited December 20, 2005 by Norman

[Chaity 1]

Well said Norman.

 

Spotters don't ask for money for keeping an eye but ask for peace of mind while spotting.

[Peter Smith 1]

An initiative such as this has been adopted amongst 40 or so, of PERs spotters. Its fantastic and has seen the pull over and ask questions, to a pull over and start chatting about the daily movements, upcoming ones, camera's or just general life. Its truly a fantastic arrangement to have, as security can't have eyes everywhere at same time...and you'll find most nuisance's actually look to make sure no security/police are around, not worry about someone with a photobox around their neck (they're just geeks remember! )

[Ignatius 4]

An initiative such as this has been adopted amongst 40 or so, of PERs spotters. Its fantastic and has seen the pull over and ask questions, to a pull over and start chatting about the daily movements, upcoming ones, camera's or just general life. Its truly a fantastic arrangement to have, as security can't have eyes everywhere at same time...and you'll find most nuisance's actually look to make sure no security/police are around, not worry about someone with a photobox around their neck (they're just geeks remember!  )

20842[/snapback]

 

Really?? Then i would love to go back to Per and do some spotting ehehe.. But make sure you park your cars in the right place, I know Ozy Police are damn fussy

No offence

Edited December 20, 2005 by ignatius

[Peter Smith 1]

fussy is an understatement!

[Fitri Shukri 0]

An initiative such as this has been adopted amongst 40 or so, of PERs spotters. Its fantastic and has seen the pull over and ask questions, to a pull over and start chatting about the daily movements, upcoming ones, camera's or just general life. Its truly a fantastic arrangement to have, as security can't have eyes everywhere at same time...and you'll find most nuisance's actually look to make sure no security/police are around, not worry about someone with a photobox around their neck (they're just geeks remember!  )

20842[/snapback]

 

For such arrangement to be realised, it depends a lot on how the authorities/government and enforcement agencies trust and respect their own fellow citizens.

I dont' want to go into politics here, but with the ISA, OSA and the so many plus the recent police mishandlings of detainees, I doubt it will be easy for us.

After 9/11 and terrorists, so many government are paranoid of their own citizens, the Malaysia and USA included.

We might tell the authorities that we are doing it for 'good intentions', but as a lawyer in Perliament quoted several months ago to a Minister ...."All roads to hell are paved with good intentions"

Sorry if i sound too pessimistic today...

Edited December 21, 2005 by Fitri Shukri

[Peter Smith 1]

It took years here for such a thing to occur, thats with monthly meetings with Federal Police as well.

[Pieter C. 5]

Dutch spotter organizations also have regular meeting with both the airport of Schiphol and (military) police authorities; guess, that's why the viewing-deck is still open and free of charge (because of the apparent trust)...

[Sandeep G 1]

We can do in Malaysia also.. wait lah for someone here at MW.com to become manager of MAB, MAS KLIA etc lah hehehe actually, its a very good idea! But here the authorities don't recognise our hobby as enthusiastically... it takes someone to report it in CNN and show its being done in western countries before our authorities will react and wake up to it... typical malaysian mentality.. we need some initiative lor

[Hisham Albakri 0]

Whilst on the topic of spotting; me and my son Adam went spotting yesterday. I realised that a barricade (removable fence) was placed on the entrance to the road leading up to the hill behind Petronas Even though I could remove the barricade (as it was not that heavy), I decided not to proceed to the hill out of fear! Is this area permanently out of bounds now?

 

We however proceeded to the hill at the Weather Station and spotted loads of take-offs We bumped into Jonathan (well, I think it was Jonathan - recognisable from various photos of him here) and said 'hi' just as when I was about to leave and him arriving.

[Irni Mastura 0]

Dutch spotter organizations also have regular meeting with both the airport of Schiphol and (military) police authorities; guess, that's why the viewing-deck is still open and free of charge (because of the apparent trust)...

 

That sounds like a good synergy. I wish we have it here as well..

 

A question to my fellow MW spotters, do we (Malaysians) have an official spotter organization locally? Perhaps we can have our MW spotters as reps... that would be really nice since we already have abundance of enthusiasms towards the love of our local aviation here

[kevin garnett 0]

interesting concept. but from security standpoint howd u screen between spotters and 'spotters'. would exclusive access thru organized administration via registration/background checks go well with spotters?

[Nuriman Ahmad 2]

But here the authorities don't recognise our hobby as enthusiastically... it takes someone to report it in CNN and show its being done in western countries before our authorities will react and wake up to it... typical malaysian mentality..

 

Hmmm....u're quite right there...and there on perhaps u'll here ministers all of a sudden wanting to make KUL the hub for plane spotting activities..

[Juergen Witte 0]

Interesting topic !

Here in Germany i know that at least at Munich (München) airport there´s an agreement (similar to that in Manchester) between spotters and the local airport police. It seems to work quite well despite the fact that MUC gets a significant number of "non-local" spotters. I believe that as long as all spotters "behave" properly everything will run smoothe !

It´s a really good idea that police and spotters meet regularly (as they do at MAN and MUC) and exchange views/discuss problems/"wishes"/requirements of both sides to the advantage of all involved !

I wish that could be done almost everywhere.

Although i´m not a photo spotter i like to watch the traffic and even this seems to be already too much at many airports (not even talking about airports with military traffic ! )

Btw. even at FRA the authorities understand that people (not limited to spotters) like to watch airplanes so they reopened at least the observation deck at T2.

And for some years now there´s an elevated pad near runway 26 socalled "runway west" (used for departures only) which is fantastic for photo spotters since the distance to the runway is just about 200m. Unfortunately this spot is not accessible without a car/taxi as there´s no public transport going there and walking from the terminal would take about 1 hr ...

[tsentsan 0]

Its the difference in cultures betw the Western world and the Asian values. In our part of the world, we create extra trouble for the authorities. Even the idea of having us do extra work for them is perceived as extra unpaid work that the authorities can do without. They have no drive, no incentive. Its not as though they do this, they will get extra pay. I guess the committment is different compared to other cultures.

[Azuddin 1]

You guys should try IAH or DFW, this is some airport other then LAX which spotting is a legal activity.

 

I've been spotting at IAH a lot of time. Police and Airport Security did do their patrolling, but they won't disturb you when you spotting. Once I was spotting at IAH, I was accompanied by an Airport Security which turn out to be an aviation fan, but not really a spotter. He even took me to a nice spot where you can get a nice view of airplane rotate.

 

William Hobby Airport nearby downtown Houston also good. There's an Aviation college opposite the airport which the parking lot is a gathering spot for spotters.

 

Azuddin