TUDM SU-30 ETA?

[iwan 3]

what a beauty..i wud prefer it to be in 'skyblue' like their russian counterparts..grey look a bit 'cheap'..

 

does the enlarged rudder means extra maneuverability?the irkutsk company will be setting up a mantainence center here right?i dun want to see untrained hands anywhere near the plane...

 

btw..did we purchase this plane with the r73s,r77 etc.?the missiles came together with the deal or we didnt buy any?

[Ignatius 4]

Fulamak.. damn nice Sukhoi we have there... just that I do hope our boys plays nice with it... <_>

Those missiles could be in the package?? or were they arent just to protect themselves during ferry flight kekekee... who knows

[iwan 3]

lol...imp raying hard that they take good care of it..forget the 'frontliners' hawk..

 

an interesting article..

January 17, 2004

 

On 16th December, the Thales Group, a large European defense electronics manufacturer, signed a 150 million Euro (approximately $193 million) deal to provide avionics for the 18 Su-30MKM that Malaysia recently ordered.

 

The deal involves the installation of avionics, navigation, identification and optronics systems on the aircraft in Russia, and which will be carried out in partnership with Sukhoi, with integration under the oversight of the Royal Malaysian Air Force (RMAF).

 

Malaysia's Su-30MKM are based on the Indian Su-30MKI variants, except that Malaysia has refused, for political reasons, to use the same Israeli developed avionics and electronics systems that the Indians use. Choosing Thales to provide these systems is interesting, because depending on what Thales products the RMAF actually purchased, the Su-30MKM could very well have an avionics system comparable to the most advanced French warplane, the Rafael. For example, Thales manufactures two air-to-air IRST sensors, one of which is used on the Rafael, and the other the Eurofighter. The Su-30MKM thus has the potential to be the most advanced and potent Su-30 variant ever, eclipsing the Su-30MKI.

 

On the down-side, the integration of these systems with Russian avionics and weapon systems may take some time. India, for example, spent six years integrating Indian and Israeli systems into the Su-30MKI.

btw..why are they shipping the sukhois by plane rather then flying them here??

Edited May 27, 2007 by iwan

[Hans 0]

I think it's cool stuff Malaysia! good choice! You've now got the most competent fighter of all ASEAN countries.

[Christopher Teoh 0]

what a beauty..i wud prefer it to be in 'skyblue' like their russian counterparts..grey look a bit 'cheap'..

 

does the enlarged rudder means extra maneuverability?the irkutsk company will be setting up a mantainence center here right?i dun want to see untrained hands anywhere near the plane...

 

btw..did we purchase this plane with the r73s,r77 etc.?the missiles came together with the deal or we didnt buy any?

 

 

I don't know how significant the enlarged rudder will be. Yes, the Irkutsk company is setting up a center here similar to the ones for the MiGs.

 

It is also interesting that the MKM was displayed with just the R73s and R27s. Probably due to political sensitivity. It is extremley wasteful if the government have no intention of arming the MKMs with the R77s, the N011 BARS will need the R77s to go hand in hand in order to be effective. The RSiAF are openly flashing their AAMRAMS so why all the sensitivity?

[iwan 3]

yeap..i still couldnt find anything on the net..was wondering why nobody mentioned anything about arming our birds..number of missiles are classified stuffs right?if they are smart enuff to choose the su30,im sure they will know well enuff about the r77s..the 12 missiles carried is enuff to scare our enemies compared to the MIGs..

 

btw..i just noticed in the pic..the airbrake at the tip of he wing..i thot su30s dun actually have those unlike the su25s??or is that a loose sticker peeling off?

 

ow yea...it took me until now to introduce myself..was just too excited to finally find this forum..im just a student very much interested in fighter jets..hope to learn a lot more from this forum...

[Edwin Yii 0]

right now im wondering how many spares AA and AG does our fighters have anyway? i mean .. in the act of war surely we hate the terms " tuan.. missile tak rak already" ......!!! habis stok! anyway kewl aircrafts! love to catch it sometime!

Edited May 27, 2007 by Edwin Yii

[Edwin Yii 0]

by the way interested on the building process of this aircraft?

 

 

enjoy!

[Christopher Teoh 0]

yeap..i still couldnt find anything on the net..was wondering why nobody mentioned anything about arming our birds..number of missiles are classified stuffs right?if they are smart enuff to choose the su30,im sure they will know well enuff about the r77s..the 12 missiles carried is enuff to scare our enemies compared to the MIGs..

 

btw..i just noticed in the pic..the airbrake at the tip of he wing..i thot su30s dun actually have those unlike the su25s??or is that a loose sticker peeling off?

 

ow yea...it took me until now to introduce myself..was just too excited to finally find this forum..im just a student very much interested in fighter jets..hope to learn a lot more from this forum...

 

The MKMs will probably get the usual R73/74, R27 and R77 BVRs. As for air-to-ground munitions I suspect it will carry some western/NATO munitions. Thales has integrated the Damocles multi-mission and targetting system to the MKMs (same as the Rafales) thus the chances of the MKMs wired to fire western air-to-surface munitions is high.

 

On the air brake thingy, it is just the angle of the shot...you are looking at the dorsal brake (F-15 style).

 

Thanks for introducing yourself, I'm new here too - Hi everyone!!!

[Mohd Idham 0]

Fulamak.. damn nice Sukhoi we have there... just that I do hope our boys plays nice with it... <_>

Those missiles could be in the package?? or were they arent just to protect themselves during ferry flight kekekee... who knows

 

Iggy, that the dummy one....notice there is no "engine nozzle" on that missile...

[Saiful Bahari 0]

saw this comment (which I think a little bit harsh) on website where those pictures came from (scroll below to comment no.6 - he commented as well the lousiness of the pictures)

 

And why do you need three or four squadrons of these for air defense? Defence from whom? When was the last time your air defenses fired a shot in anger? These are first-strike aircraft that will make your neighbours decide that THEY now need three or four squadrons of air defense fighters to protect themselves from YOU.

 

Malaysia needs these aircraft about as much as a taxi company needs Ferraris. Nice to have, but way, way more than could ever possibly be needed and it’s just going to result in the “competition” buying more than they need in order to keep up appearances. It would be cheaper for your taxpayers if your political and military leaders didn’t worry about the size of their penises and try to compensate this way.

 

Comment by Phil Aysho — May 27, 2007 @ 2:36 am

 

what's you guys think about it...I wonder this guy is our neighbor

Edited May 28, 2007 by Saiful Bahari

[iwan 3]

well the comment is a bit harsh...you never know when they will be a war..a person who is an ally today might turn out an enemy tomorrow..not being paranoid but if it happens we cant count on our migs to protect us..im starting to doubt the point of that remark.

 

about the dorsal brakes thingy...was it on the previous versions of sukhois?and why are they bringing the sukhois by plane instead of flying those birds here?did we request for a 'brand new' untouched plane?

[Mohd Idham 0]

We are civilian maybe have a different kind of comment, but did we heard from military people yet ?

[Christopher Teoh 0]

The dorsal brakes is a standard feature on all the Flanker family. As for as how they will be delivered, I don't know why the Russians love using those Ruslans (the same for our Migs). On the other hand our Hornets were 'catapulted' into Malaysia via an aircraft carrier!

 

As for that fella Phil Aysho he is probably harboring secret desire of seeing a fleet of MKMs in his country as well.

[Pieter C. 5]

enjoy!

 

I surely did, Edwin, thanks for sharing the link: great to see this fighter being 'born'

 

[iwan 3]

no cobras or bells but i still managed to enjoy video..i wud cut a limb to be in one of those birds...

 

As for that fella Phil Aysho he is probably harboring secret desire of seeing a fleet of MKMs in his country as well.

 

haha..well said..exactly what i had in mind..

 

The dorsal brakes is a standard feature on all the Flanker family. As for as how they will be delivered, I don't know why the Russians love using those Ruslans (the same for our Migs). On the other hand our Hornets were 'catapulted' into Malaysia via an aircraft carrier!

yeap..speaking bout grand entrance..but im dissapointed by the fact that those f18s cant be use in the case of a war due to the 'source code' issue..how true that is im not sure..i have a fren whose neighbour is a tudm f18 pilot..he was bragging about those f18s capabilities saying the su30s were nowhere near the f18s and about how the government made a mistake of purchasing them..he sed the only advantage the su has is its ability to fly like "this" (imagine him showing his palm)..i was shocked to the extend of being speechless to be honest..he as a pilot shud know better IMO..i wouldnt dare say i know more then him but the way he said it was like we were purchasing an unknown,unproven plane from an unknown country..and when i try to give a point he wud say "im a pilot i know laa"..sighh... <_>

Edited May 28, 2007 by iwan

[Christopher Teoh 0]

no cobras or bells but i still managed to enjoy video..i wud cut a limb to be in one of those birds...

haha..well said..exactly what i had in mind..

yeap..speaking bout grand entrance..but im dissapointed by the fact that those f18s cant be use in the case of a war due to the 'source code' issue..how true that is im not sure..i have a fren whose neighbour is a tudm f18 pilot..he was bragging about those f18s capabilities saying the su30s were nowhere near the f18s and about how the government made a mistake of purchasing them..he sed the only advantage the su has is its ability to fly like "this" (imagine him showing his palm)..i was shocked to the extend of being speechless to be honest..he as a pilot shud know better IMO..i wouldnt dare say i know more then him but the way he said it was like we were purchasing an unknown,unproven plane from an unknown country..and when i try to give a point he wud say "im a pilot i know laa"..sighh...

 

I am no expert on this subject matter but I think the Hornet pilot is correct on his point. We have to remember that the F-18 is a proven platform while the Su-30, expecially the MKM, is something not but with plenty of potential. I think over the next couple of years will be crucial as RMAF develops and matures the MKM operational doctrine. We will then know the fate of the MKM - will it be so great a venture that it warrants a second or third squadron, or will it blunder and fail?

 

As for the Hornet, what RMAF is complaining about is being denied the right to reprogram the threat data. The cry that the Hornet can't be used for war is oversold. Sure the F-18 can be used for war, it will drop its bombs, fire its missile accurately. Not having the right to change the threat code only limits its flexibility.

 

What I would love to see in the RMAF is the built-up and concentration of the fleet to just two types: Su-30MKM (if it succeeds) and F/A-18F Super Hornet. Sell off those F-5s, Hawks and Mig-29. Use the MKM with its N011 BARS and R77 for long endurance air defence (a mirror to the F-14s AWG-9, AMRAAM combo) and use the Super Hornets for strike, interdiction mission. Here's a pair of aircraft that will shift the balance of power in the region to the favor of Malaysia and hold it till atleast 2015-17 when F-35 start making its appearance in the region (Singapore comes to mind).

[Hans 0]

can recall reading an article bout the SU-30MKI (the Indian one). They apparently had exercises with the F-16's of the RSAF and the USAF and rumour goes that the SU-30 kicked ass... Seems to win every single dogfight. So think it is a very potent fighter. It's so much larger than an F-16, but with its canards and vectored thrust, it's a really exciting jet.

[Christopher Teoh 0]

can recall reading an article bout the SU-30MKI (the Indian one). They apparently had exercises with the F-16's of the RSAF and the USAF and rumour goes that the SU-30 kicked ass... Seems to win every single dogfight. So think it is a very potent fighter. It's so much larger than an F-16, but with its canards and vectored thrust, it's a really exciting jet.

 

And the Su-30 sure did! But that is just mock combat, operationally is another matter. Spares, aircraft down-time, logistical matters, poor availability of force multiplier (AWACS, tankers etc.) might just hinder the effective deployment of the aircraft. The Hornets, although numbering just eight, were able to keep atleast 6 if not all available for operational use 24/7. The MiGs, on the other hand, almost became a joke at one time when only 8 of the 18 were available for use. Malaysia was well aware of the problems associated with Russian aircraft even before they bought the MiGs. MiGs and Sukhois represents a different design and operating philosophy from what RMAF is molded (western philosophy). The remedy? India.....so they thought. They signed-up with India as a 'safety-net' for the Mig-29 (now Su-30 too) should the Russian fail to deliver. Yet they ran into problems with the MiGs. The MKMs could very well suffer the same.

 

I really hope all will turn-up well with the MKMs as the aircraft, in theory, is extremely suited for RMAF requirements - long range over water capability, allowing the aircraft to sortie back and forth into the South China Sea on 5-8 hours marathon patrol.

[Rozhan 0]

The MiGs, on the other hand, almost became a joke at one time when only 8 of the 18 were available for use.

 

I heard the same from a former schoolmate who is with TUDM as helicopter pilot. He joked that the Nuris are 'Flying Coffins'. Further, Russian technicians often disallow TUDM personnel from coming close to the MiGs during service time.

[Christopher Teoh 0]

I heard the same from a former schoolmate who is with TUDM as helicopter pilot. He joked that the Nuris are 'Flying Coffins'. Further, Russian technicians often disallow TUDM personnel from coming close to the MiGs during service time.

 

That's new info to me about the Migs. Do you know if order for two MiG-29 attrition replacement is true?

Oh yeah those Nuris are waaaay long in tooth. I think the MOD is on the verge of ordering the NH-90 as replacement.

[iwan 3]

d

I am no expert on this subject matter but I think the Hornet pilot is correct on his point. We have to remember that the F-18 is a proven platform while the Su-30, expecially the MKM, is something not but with plenty of potential. I think over the next couple of years will be crucial as RMAF develops and matures the MKM operational doctrine. We will then know the fate of the MKM - will it be so great a venture that it warrants a second or third squadron, or will it blunder and fail?

 

As for the Hornet, what RMAF is complaining about is being denied the right to reprogram the threat data. The cry that the Hornet can't be used for war is oversold. Sure the F-18 can be used for war, it will drop its bombs, fire its missile accurately. Not having the right to change the threat code only limits its flexibility.

 

What I would love to see in the RMAF is the built-up and concentration of the fleet to just two types: Su-30MKM (if it succeeds) and F/A-18F Super Hornet. Sell off those F-5s, Hawks and Mig-29. Use the MKM with its N011 BARS and R77 for long endurance air defence (a mirror to the F-14s AWG-9, AMRAAM combo) and use the Super Hornets for strike, interdiction mission. Here's a pair of aircraft that will shift the balance of power in the region to the favor of Malaysia and hold it till atleast 2015-17 when F-35 start making its appearance in the region (Singapore comes to mind).

 

but based on the MKI...im sure its proven enough what it is capable of doing..

 

ive read in a website a few weeks back about TUDMs intention to upgrade the current mig29 to mig 29 OVTs..that wud certainly be a boost to our airforce..having the mig will complement the sukhois well..but the hawks and F5 has to go...

[Andrew Lim 1]

Whilst I agree with Phil Aysho's opinion, I do find the last paragraph derogatory.

 

Nevertheless, I do not think that TUDM needs such advanced and expensive fighters to fight its war. Just one type of multi roled aircraft would have sufficed. Only the big Air Forces can justify owning specialised airplanes.

 

I don't think our ministers have thought about the purchase properly. The way the defense budget is being spent at the moment gives me the impression that they are just buying whatever that's popular, and not to suit the defense doctrine (if there is even one!). This is clearly evident when you look at the fact that we have three different types of frontline fighter planes which does more or less the same job! It must be one logistical nightmare maintaning the fleet.

 

Remember how the Argentines' relatively small and old air force managed to kick the Brit's arse during the Falklands War through superior tactics? They even used a C-130 to bomb a warship.

 

Anyway, the Su-30s do look nice and fearsome. I notice they have similar paint scheme as our Hornets.

Edited May 29, 2007 by Andrew Lim

[Rozhan 0]

That's new info to me about the Migs. Do you know if order for two MiG-29 attrition replacement is true?

 

He's not privy to that information when I last met him early this year . He's based in Kepala Batas at the moment, but will ask when I meet him again during our next annual reunioun among schoolmates.

[Christopher Teoh 0]

iwan,

 

The MKM is an excellent aircraft in combat, no doubt. The ability of Malaysia to sustain a credible MKM fleet in long-run, factoring-in logistical implication and attrition, remains to be seen. Comparing to the Hornets the MKM is a high risk-high reward asset. I am cautiously-optimistic about the MKMs.

 

As for the Mig-29, boy I do hope that they don't waste our tight budget in going after the OVTs. Sell the Migs! Trade those hornets off and get a new fleet of Super instead. Uncle Sam will be more than happy to do so especially when the USMC probably need attrition Hornets to replace worned-out airframe from the Iraq war. Once we reduce the logistical nightmare can we only be able to milk the best out of the MKMs and realise that it is worth persuing a second or third squadron.

 

 

Andrew Lim,

 

I don't think it's a matter of it being an overly advance and expensive aircraft. I think what matter most is operational capability. RMAF continues to preech long-range overwater capability coupled with twin engine safety. Few aircraft matches that. If we look at the market:

 

Typhoon - too costly

Rafale - too costly as well

F-15E - forget it, cost is one thing, the severe maturity of the product is another

F-18E/F - why not!!! we have Ds already, the Super bug have long product cycle ahead and will continue to grow

Mig-29N or OVT - RMAF is asking the poor Migs to do too much, in sports car anology is like getting your Kancil turbocharged and expect it to hang in with the Ferrari in a race night-in night-out.

Su-30 - Affordable, capable and the Russians are willing to dance to any tune Malaysia plays. Again, high-risk high-reward. Cautious needed.

 

RMAF needs to trim back to two types and built on it if we want to have a credible force.

 

Oh yeah, I love those gunship gray scheme on the Hornets and Flankers.

 

 

Cheers