Think before you choose

[Tony 1]

Guys and girls,

 

I am a recent Aviation graduate from Sydney. No prize for guessing which uni I'm from. During my studies (and after), I have worked for both IDP Malaysia and my School in the uni. Still, no names. Throughout my work, I get a lot of questions about what the course is about, where is it headed to, and its "usefulness" upon graduating.

 

It's no surprise to learn that there are many whose ambition is to become an airline pilot. I don't truly know how much passion they have for flying, but of those I know, some admitted they were attracted to the salary range and the glamour of the gold-bars. Not to say if you deny so you are a liar, because I myself love flying more than the gold-bars (they are still fabulous, regardless).

 

I won't name names, but just for discussion's sake, let's call it Degree X (or packages).

 

Now, a few uni's and colleges do offer packages where you learn to fly and get a degree when you're done with the training. In other words, you get all your necessary licences, plus a Bachelor degree. To one of my friends, he thinks the degree is complimentary and all he's interested was the licences, the experience, and the flying. All of which he's got - just more flying now to build up his hours.

 

To be honest, don't expect to get a job as an commercial jet pilot upon finishing Degree X. It only gives you the foundation, not the key to the door. You will have to put more effort into career building to get the job you want! These "packages" help to mould your career path. They don't necessarily (most of the time) land you a job.

 

One of the most common requests: I want to be a commercial pilot. Does Degree X lead me to it?

 

It's a booby trap, don't you think so? I will say yes judging by the way it is asked, simply because it does LEAD you towards it, but not immediately. I usually say no and explain anyway. Most of these degrees get you a frozen ATPL w 250 hours command plus some additional ratings. I won't go technical here. But do consider what airlines want. At least 900 hours command for a cadetship, I'd say. Some prefer freshies or anything up to PPL - so if you do Degree X, you're out, I'm sorry. As for direct entry, maybe around 5,000 hours? Or even more specifically they want those hours to be in Jets?

 

As what LeeCH mentioned in his Story of a Pilot thread, if you want to be a pilot, you must be able to make your own decision; not your parents/bro/sis, not your friends. So here I am on this forum, ask me questions if you like - remember, I am here to share my knowledge, not here as your career/education pathway guru. I'm not a counsellor. I am only a normal human being with great interests in aviation and wants a career built around aviation.

 

Learning is a life long process. Don't stop.

[Edwin Yii 0]

easiest way to get a straight entry = cadetship .. and even if u're thinking to study on yer own just make sure DCA reckon yer CPL/IR from overseas and eligible for conversion here at M'sia, as from what ive learned only get yer F ATPL locally. Other than that .. an opportunity is all u need at the end of the day.

[Tony 1]

Ah, Edwin, you reminded me something- that I forgot to mention. The purpose of doing this thread is there had been "news" about airlines now prefer their pilots to have a bachelor degree before becoming a pilot. I don't know what's that for, ultimately, but to me it seems like they want their prospective pilots to get done with studies before getting into full-time flying.

 

And yes, certainly do consider the cost of Conversions.

 

Thanks Edwin.

[Walter Sim 1]

One thing , Tony working in Sydney already?

[Tony 1]

One thing , Tony working in Sydney already?

Affirm.

[Keith T 2]

I'm interested in the airline business - not the flying bit, but I've always been interested in airline economics, the various laws governing the industry, airline marketing and PR, and the political nature of negotiating air rights. Yet I found that if I went to do an Aviation management course or something - it leads to a highly specialised qualification that's extreme vocational. So what I'm doing is a general Bachelor of Arts (Politics)/Bachelor of Laws combined degree - but structuring my subjects around the airline industry. I've written essays on freedoms of the air, bilateral air agreements between states etc.

 

Next semester I'm embarking on my Legal Internship with a solicitor who's launched a class action against a few different international airlines for alleged price fixing RE surcharges (fuel, insurance etc). The focus will be on how competition law has to evolve to deal with the highly volatile airline industry.

 

Don't have a clue what's going to happen after uni - but one of my dream jobs is to work in the Public Affairs/Government Relations department of a major Australian airline, ie Qantas or Virgin Blue.

Edited April 11, 2007 by Keith T

[Tony 1]

Keith,

 

Qantas used to have a little team that goes all over the place doing negotiations - which route they want to take up, how frequently, capacity etc. That might be of your interest too. Someone I know did that.

 

 

[Mohd Idham 0]

Aviation Industry is a BIG topic to discuss, but congratulation to Tony that bring this topic up...

If you want to have a career in aviation, doesn't mean you must have a degree in aviation or aeronautics....or pilot license or engineering license...

[Keith T 2]

Keith,

 

Qantas used to have a little team that goes all over the place doing negotiations - which route they want to take up, how frequently, capacity etc. That might be of your interest too. Someone I know did that.

 

Their headhunter for Victoria told me that lots of Labor Party hacks end up working for Qantas PR.

I've met a lot of their negotiators as both my current and ex bosses were approached by their lobbyists.

Edited April 11, 2007 by Keith T

[Tony 1]

Aviation Industry is a BIG topic to discuss, but congratulation to Tony that bring this topic up...

If you want to have a career in aviation, doesn't mean you must have a degree in aviation or aeronautics....or pilot license or engineering license...

Spot on, Idham. Having interest in aviation does not require one to have a degree in aviation as well. My lecturer used to work for QF for more than 30 years and he's got a degree in Maths (or Advanced Maths?).

[Edwin Yii 0]

Shaun..u can get hours while working as an instructor too

 

also to answer your questions ATPL if its a 1.5 or 2 years course will include SPL - PPL - CPL/IR or ME/IR then - F ATPL as most airline nowadays requires u to hav at least a CPL/IR or F ATPL

 

...this post is merely as a guidelines..not to point ya into any direction if at all.. at the end..just choose what u want and live yer dreams

Edited April 12, 2007 by Edwin Yii

[Tony 1]

Shaun,

 

I'd advise you to contact some of the unis/colleges providing DBA and ask them if your choice of path is at all possible. I believe a certain level of experience in any industry does give you some points toward Admissions. I understand where you're coming from: If you can skip MBA, very good. If you can't, you might have to do a GradDip of some sort before going onto Doctorade. So do ask around and they might ask you to submit your resume, flight logbook, licences held etc etc for assessment.

[Prashant K 0]

I think that if you want to be a pilot you just got to get into it, many people have said go and do a degree its something to fall back on but why spend 4 years putting your passion on hold? Yes a degree will be a backup to your life but if you dont take a chance by getting your license youll never know what the possibilities are. I hope to enroll my self in a flying school this year get a license and hopefully get a job. My way isnt neccsarily correct it just what i think after talking to various people and visiting various forums. Just my 2 cents....

 

 

[Tony 1]

Prashant,

 

Degree or not, it's entirely up to you - because you're paying for it! Do what is best for you, for now, regardless what the best advise in the world is. Ultimately, you are the pilot, you decide what is best for you and your career.

 

Good luck!

[Keno Omar 0]

I'm interested in the airline business - not the flying bit, but I've always been interested in airline economics, the various laws governing the industry, airline marketing and PR

Same here. For my case I have a MEng in Telcommunications and been working in this line for the past 3 years since my graduation though I can honestly say that I don't have that much interest in this industry to begin with. Later this year (or early next year) I'm planning to pursue a full-time MBA mainly because I'm seeking for a career change from a largely technical to more on managerial or enterpreneural line (preferrably away from telco industry).

 

I came across several aviation-related MBA courses around namely Griffith in Australia, Cranfield in UK and Toulouse in France but based on reading and advice given by people around me the best is to do a general MBA and not limiting yourself to a particular specialized field. You just never know what opportunities there may be upon completion of your studies, the truth is not everybody is fortunate enough to land a job of their dreams right away. However, to get around this I would probably choose a thesis topic that is related to airline business - this would work equally well for job application to other non-airline industries as a proof of your (general) business competence and obviously this would be a much-needed edge on your application to airline companies.

 

The bottom line is we need to keep ours options open but at the same time never stop pursuing your dreams.

[Keith T 2]

The bottom line is we need to keep ours options open but at the same time never stop pursuing your dreams.

 

Wise words there, Keno.

 

I had the same advice from Mum and I did a double degree because it's very flexible in terms of course structuring and career options. I've never wanted to be a lawyer though but it's one of the few courses that does not involve Math or Science, a huge positive in my books.

 

Oops sorry for going OT...

[Tony 1]

Keno,

 

Cranfield is a good place for furthering studies in the area of Aviation. But as what you said, keeping your options open is very important. And frankly speaking, as many of us hope to be in the airline industry, there aren't too many jobs floating around for us to pick. What we get is often, but not always, what we don't really like to start with. A handful of my coursemates are just doing so-called Ground Service now, which is a posh term for Check-In Staff. Though, recalling that a few CEOs, too, started at the bottom of the pile, we believe that we will make it to the top one day.

 

Keith,

 

You have not gone OT la...Still education-related.

[Fairul 0]

this topic is very general IMO..aviation is big topic to discuss..it depends in which area ur more inclined to..for me..im more interested in airport infrastructure than flying the big metal...so with my degree (Civil Engineering) i can get myself involve with airport construction projects...its like 2 in 1 for me

[Keith T 2]

A handful of my coursemates are just doing so-called Ground Service now, which is a posh term for Check-In Staff.

 

Check in is fun as a casual job. I've performed check in for both airlines (Menzies at Tullamarine) and hotels (Sofitel Melbourne) over a couple of summers when I was bored and had nothing to do. Never underestimate the power a check in agent has - for that reason it pays to be nice when you check in. Ahh... little joys.

Edited April 15, 2007 by Keith T

[Tony 1]

Fairul,

 

Perhaps I should have made it clearer that I hold a Bachelor of Aviation in Management. But still not telling from which uni, though a simple search on Google would get you very near to the correct answer. D'oh!

 

Check in is fun as a casual job. I've performed check in for both airlines (Menzies at Tullamarine) and hotels (Sofitel Melbourne) over a couple of summers when I was bored and had nothing to do. Never underestimate the power a check in agent has - for that reason it pays to be nice when you check in. Ahh... little joys.

I've heard stories about it... But let's just not talk about it here. Too sensitive for some.

 

Yes, check-in is quite a fun job. I wouldn't mind - at the very least it's hands-on. And as a check-in agent, you have the 'power' of ruining one's day if s/he is not-so-cooperative. A 'NO' from you can be very 'powerful'.

Edited April 16, 2007 by Tony

[Keith T 2]

Yes, check-in is quite a fun job. I wouldn't mind - at the very least it's hands-on. And as a check-in agent, you have the 'power' of ruining one's day if s/he is not-so-cooperative. A 'NO' from you can be very 'powerful'.

 

I'd be posting stories if I wasn't using my real name...