D Singh

TG is a real team player in Star would be nice if SQ was as well.

WY needs to join an alliance. It think they are the ME carrier that alliance makes the jake sense for as they are small but would plug rather nicely into an alliance particularly Star.

Yeah will certainly miss it, thanks to this load factor it was a goldmine of award availability

You are right as of May 1 it's history sigh. Spose lax won't last too long either.

This actually very bad news, as it means will no longer be able to access the TG afternoon long hauls including FRA and LAX :-(

So from this it would suggest that there maybe a sale and lease back arrangements for at least some of the frames. However I thought the government already kept the planes on its balance sheet and leased them to MAS. Unless things have changed since the last bail out.

I believe there are way to reward both. You can bonus j travel but it doesn't have to be at the expense of Y especially on the current climate. In the US there is now less supply of empty seats to give to people with miles. That is not the case with MAS and at least for now it could try and turn this weakness into a strength for the FFP. Also would make sense for MAS to have more partners on the ground too why not. There are status benefits that MAS can offer to value their frequent and higher fare paying clientele district from just Mileage.

This is exactly my point. A well run and attractive program can be a huge asset and money spinner for an airline it also incentivizes people to fly and remain loyal! I said above mile represent a liability when they are redeemed the liability is reduced ofcourse another way to lower the liability is to devalue them, but that obviously would not be pleasing to members especially at time when you really need their goodwill. And no my point is you grant the upgrades on short haul to your most loyal customers in exchange for their loyalty there. By incentivizing them to fly with you. These upgrades will clear closer to travel so those who want a confirmed J seat will still buy it while and the most loyal travelers can enjoy a perk. And yes I do have a choice in airlines and seldom chose MAS this thread is not about my flying preference it's about the fact that MAS could run their program better to attract more customers and make money so that the poor Malaysian tax payer can stop subsidizing this POS

I think our definitions of value must be quite different. The rates to destinations across the world are bad. But lets say we just look at Europe and use the rates you have illustrated above. AA is ofcourse the best and does not charge fuel except on BA. The UA rate also doesnt come with any fuel, delta will charge 80k and also won't charge fuel. Avalibility even in the summer is decent on their partner airlines. Even if we look at the other Asian FFP the rates return are lower than MAS and these airlines like Sq and TG offer better products than MAS does to Europe. I reiterate my point The MAS program is unrewarding especially when you consider the state MAS is in. They offer a product even on the soon to be extinct A380 that's is beneth their rivals and their load factors are way worse than their rivals. Therefore they should offer a program that is better than their rivals not even on par with them in order to garner business. However they have gone in the opposite direction and devalued their scheme makeing it worse than the competiton right at the point when delivering the benefits cost them even less as these seats will be flown empty anyway. To me this seems rather foolish.

Nowhere have I suggested that MAS start nickel and dimeing their passengers with buy on board and inflight ads. If you read in proposing the opposite I think they should reward their customers more so as to cut them a break. MAS has plenty of empty seats it should extract value from them via the FFP. Also to clear your confusion the lack of avalibity I'm reffering to is when spending partner miles. I think the avalibity for Enrich members is alright it's just the pricing that's nuts. MAS is a below industry airline they should charge below industry rates to fill these seats and build customer loyaltyso that people might even choose to travel on them when they aren't the cheapest option.

So this is an economy class redemption. I must say I'm surprised the taxes were only RM 700 I would have expected the YQ to have been more than that. I am glad that you feel you received value for this redemption however I think MAS could do alot better especially in premium cabins.

I would disagree with both of your points. MAS does not make miles super easy to earn when flying so to push the price up especially when seats are going out empty and the airline needs its (few) loyal customers more than ever is foolish. Today I could redeem 51K SQ miles for a one way flight to Europe, or 52.5K AA miles on CX, QR or even MAS its self with no fuel charge to boot! So the current Enrich levels are usurious. Im not sure what routes you are looking for but. Ive never seen more than 1 MH F seat open on BA and often see no J seats on empty flights to NRT among other destinations.

In SQ's case they are stingy i concede, but even at the standard level the price of a redemption seat can be reasonable, the upgrade generally less so. SQ protects the exclusivity of its F cabin because its a product that some actually do pay for. In C they are more reasonable. As far as LH are you looking for an F or a C seat? Actually my complaint is 2 fold. 1 i think its foolish MH does not release more seats for partner redemption. 2 while i concede for its own members MAS does have seats for redemption the complaint there is the cost in points is unreasonable, and recently moved in the wrong direction when the airline isnt flying with anything close to decent loads so why piss of customers who have been loyal to you when the opportunity cost of the redemption seat effectively when down. Why am i interested in this... because i see lots of wasted potential here and also as a Malaysian we are all paying to subsidize this POS nationalized company. As they insist on keeping this horse with 4 broken legs alive instead of just putting it down or letting it die its in every Malaysians best interest for MAS to stop bleeding so more of our money isnt wasted on this! now to your other points. 1. Mas redemption prices are now higher than industry standard while the airline itself offers a product that is below industry standard there for to compensate for this could offer a more generous FFP in order to actually compete. 2 You are incorrect here mile represent a liability on a company balance sheet when they are redeemed that liability is released and has a positive effect on the bottom line. However in this case im not even talking about mileage upgrades, im talking about the US style system where domestic upgrades are free for the most frequent flyers. MAS is offers 737's on most of its regional network these planes are flying shorter routes and for the most part people are not willing to pay to fly these routes on MAS in business. To draw in some more pax why not offer upgrades for loyal members on these flights. The only cost of this upgrade is the catering which would likely be loaded anyway. 3 Mas does not have a shortage of empty seats they should try and monetize them by whatever means. can you please detail your redemption route and what it cost you in miles and RM?

So frequent flyer programs are an opportunity for airlines to differentiate themselves and compete. For year in the US the legacy carriers offered rather poor service and products especially when compared to their foreign competition. However they kept the punters coming and loyal with rather rewarding FFP benefits and miles. Upgrades and miles were reasonably easy to come by. Now some could argue these programs were to generous and many have indeed scaled back on these benefits when compared to what they offered a decade ago however in general the benefits are still leagues ahead of whats offered in Asia all while the onboard product that the US carriers offer has improved (not that is world beating but they are all flat in business on international flights or will be soon) Anyway so here is my point MAS is in a dreadful state and flying empty planes around the world and even their regular fares are very low indeed. So the opportunity cost of them offering a reward seat or an upgrade is practically zero! However instead of trying to fill these seats and in the process draw in some customers via the loyalty program they instead raised the redemption rates recently. Does anyone at this airline have a brain? (CM excluded) In addition MAS could open more of its seats for partner redemption this would be a way to a least bring in some money vs nothing for flying the seat empty. TG is in a similar position but at least they are sensible and let partners mileage holders fill their empty seats.

What exactly does that have to do with KUL? SIN is a massively more important airport than KUL Plenty of carrier operate A380's to SIN.

you must be joking! BA will never send the A380 to KUL. There isnt the demand at all! AT ALL!! Even EK have pulled the A380 from KUL. Hate to say it but KUL is a back water for the major full service airlines. KUL has a vibrant LCC market because of AK but this and MAS giving away its seats away at money losing (tax subsidized) prices is a toxic mix for major airlines as it destroys yields! The last thing BA would want is more capacity to KUL to further depress prices!

So now they are getting rid of the A380's we are back to Shitty ancient 772's and their crap seats. As well as whats sure to be an ever more reduced network. What in the hell are people getting for this 6 Billion Ringgit investment??? If the Carrier that emerges from this "turn around" still doesnt make money (it wont) and now doesnt even fly anywhere!!! Literally lighting the money on fire would be better atleast it would generate WARMTH!!! But oh wait this is Malaysia so more heat is hardly required. Perhaps Wallpaper would be a more practical use for 6B MAS is bloody useless and needs to die!

Cost of living is lower in Malaysia than in HK or Singapore....

So im going to drag up this old thread that I started, just for fun. I wonder what the MAS apologists that wrote in this thread have to say now. -MAS still offers a crap hard product (with no prospects for improvement as far as I know) -Piss poor route network (which will only continue to shrink) -Little integration with One World (its website can barely sell a codeshare) The unfortunate disasters have contributed nothing to this situation. MAS has been run into the ground long before 2014. I view this RM 6 billion "turn around" plan as a joke. That money would be better used as wall paper than given to MAS where it will basically be lighted on fire! Malaysia is not a super wealthy country 6 billion could do a lot more good than being pissed away on this sorry excuse for an airline. MAS is a lost cause they should just let the damn thing die and start from scratch. Or better yet the government should stay the hell out of the aviation business and let some private individual who actually has something between his ears come into the market.

oh i was certainly being facetious, the concept of a MAS all business and first class flight is simply absurd. Issacs' point is spot on MAS operates in a region and on routes where there is simply better out there or the same out there but at a lower cost. Though I would argue that once AA refits all its planes even US carriers are going to offer a better hard product on their long haul route that MAS does. Yes but how is MAS cabin crew going to make up for my sore backside after i have slide down the sloping seat and been given a wedgie? Last i check MAS did not offer complimentary massages in the golden lounge ;-) Business class is about the seat! If MAS prioritized this instead of other folly they could make this happen. If they are really that cash strapped they could offload their remaining stakes in LSG Malaysia and Engine Services. It is not that expensive or impossible to refit a 772. US airlines have done it even during bankruptcy.

Yup!

I would agree with this, their economy class isnt bad. But then its economy class this is not where money is made in the airline game (LCC's excluded) Self-inflicted loss

Excuses Excuses "on-time performance": FAIL http://www.flightstats.com/go/story.do;jsessionid=92FBBA5A594E8BEC256643EB461E5C79.web3:8009?id=1052 "The frequency of flights" Subjective, but I would argue if you arent KUL based : FAIL "The comprehensiveness of network coverage" with recent route cuts MAS is a shadow of itself and pales in comparison to competition : FAIL "Ground Service": Wouldnt say golden lounges or check-in are anything special, but there is atleast book the cook now: PASS "Business Links" : im not familiar with what you mean please elaborate? Are you talking about corporate accounts? "airline alliances and the procuring of miles": About bloody time this is one sensible thing MAS has done just about 10 years too late!: PASS So as I'm not sure MAS has that much going for it and hence a good hard product is imperative! Business class is about the seat. Again to the transit passenger that has choice MAS doesnt look that great. Finally to your last point AF has announced plans for a new full flat C product. Sister brand KLM has already released images of its new C product which will launch in June. LH debuted its new full flat C on the 747-8 last year and is undergoing a fleet refit.

This forum wont let me like anything! +1 I like this! Particularly the coffin remark hahaha :-) ..... Also yes Skyteam sucks!

Hey Gavin Yeah i think this is the logical approach that many take with airlines. Which is why I believe MAS had better up its game because they are quite frankly out of their depth. Say you are a business traveler based in Frankfurt and heading to HKG. You have so many different options open to you. CX and LH for starters offering direct flights with CX offering full flat in J. Now lets look at just a subset of the potential 1 stop offering, TG A380 all the way though full flat J, SQ A380 all the way through full flat J, BA full flat J, LX Full Flat J, TK Full Flat J, EY Full Flat J. There are a myriad of other options available but i think i have made my point. Why on earth would anyone pick MAS unless they are forced to, they simply arent even in the running! So its very well and good for the MAS apologists on this board to make excuses for the airline. And of course it does have some good points. However just look at the scenario above, if you arent KUL based and beholden to MAS for scheduling need then I think the case is pretty clear. Malaysia is too small a market for domestic traffic to sustain MAS and besides even if it is Air Asia has the lions share of the market. MAS need premium transit passengers to be viable and with the product it is offering I dont see how that's going to happen.