Singapore Scrambles Fighter Jets To Intercept Intrusion

[Fitri Shukri 0]

We might never know that RMAF fighters, especially MiG29N from KUA could have trailed the Cessna from a distance but purposely not intercept it.

 

In the end, it was the RSAF F16 that got into the news.

[Nik H. 3]

We might never know that RMAF fighters, especially MiG29N from KUA could have trailed the Cessna from a distance but purposely not intercept it.

 

In the end, it was the RSAF F16 that got into the news.

 

If RMAF wanted to intercept the Caravan, Hawks would be more than enough. Anything more would be 'overkill'.

[Naim 6]

If RMAF wanted to intercept the Caravan, Hawks would be more than enough. Anything more would be 'overkill'.

 

What intercept-intercept? Malaysia has new technology in place: can scan flying aircraft. Hence the minister declared:

 

"It was just a small plane and we had confirmed that it was no threat to the country's defence."

 

 

[Andrew Lim 1]

Have you guys ever wondered that maybe the RMAF wasnt even aware of this rogue little Cessna flying over their airspace until they read it in the news?

 

Hence, Mr Chan playing down the incident...

Edited January 28, 2008 by Andrew Lim

[S V Choong 4]

Yeah, entering the US, I got to visit the 'secondary interview' rooms a few times already!

 

Anyway, after a few days our man squeaked.

 

Wow, secondary interview after landed in the USA even with a visa? The 9/11 paranoia is just way over the top! Now days a lot of Aussies and Kiwis when they travel to Europe, they prefer to go via Asia rather than North America due to their security system in place. Good business for us I suppose!

 

 

[Andrew Lim 1]

Depends where you go I suppose, if we are to go to the USA, Japan and increasing the UK....... where Malaysians are likely to get asked a lot of question due to many of 'our' illegal overstayers in these countries.

 

Not if you present yourself properly...

 

I think that as long as you dress up smartly, act confident and speak reasonable english, then you shouldn't get asked more questions than usual by the immigration people. At least this works in LHR. Don't know about elsewhere.

 

[BC Tam 2]

I think we have to bear in mind that our southern neighbours view the world, her immediate neighbours in particular, very much differently than we Malaysians do. Couple that with the much flaunted buddy-buddiness with uncle sam, I would venture to suggest that paranoia should be obligatory !

 

(case in point, how many countries perform a security screen on pax upon arrival at their airports ?)

[Naim 6]

Not if you present yourself properly...

 

I think that as long as you dress up smartly, act confident and speak reasonable english, then you shouldn't get asked more questions than usual by the immigration people. At least this works in LHR. Don't know about elsewhere.

 

And no 'muhammad' or 'ahmad' or 'abdul' or ... in your name. I'm blessed with a 'muhammad' so the americans normally would like to know me better. But the blokes in the 'secondary interview' rooms were a professional and decent lot.

[Nik H. 3]

And no 'muhammad' or 'ahmad' or 'abdul' or ... in your name. I'm blessed with a 'muhammad' so the americans normally would like to know me better. But the blokes in the 'secondary interview' rooms were a professional and decent lot.

 

I have 'Ahmad' in my passport but I had no issue with getting a Visa at the US Embassy in KUL. None in my brothers' family had any problems. Neither did any of us had any problem throughout our stay in the US.

 

Back to topic; The Caravan, upon entering Malaysian Airspace would have been in contact with Malaysian ATC. It may be flying VFR and hence, permitted to file an airborne flight plan. So to imply that our local people and authorities were unaware may not be entirely inaccurate.

 

You kinda need to be flying around i the front seat of an aeroplane, preferably both local and international, in VFR and IFR airspace to understand the situation better.

[Andrew Lim 1]

I have 'Ahmad' in my passport but I had no issue with getting a Visa at the US Embassy in KUL. None in my brothers' family had any problems. Neither did any of us had any problem throughout our stay in the US.

 

Back to topic; The Caravan, upon entering Malaysian Airspace would have been in contact with Malaysian ATC. It may be flying VFR and hence, permitted to file an airborne flight plan. So to imply that our local people and authorities were unaware may not be entirely inaccurate.

 

You kinda need to be flying around i the front seat of an aeroplane, preferably both local and international, in VFR and IFR airspace to understand the situation better.

 

News article only mentioned that Koh Samui ATC warned its Malaysian counterpart about the intrusion. Nowhere else does it suggest that RMAF had been informed or RMAF picked the aircraft up on radar.

 

If the Cessna pilot was ignoring warnings from the Thai ATC, there's a high possiblity that he wasnt talking to the Malaysians too.

 

Anyway, no one implied that RMAF wasn't aware. We were just asking the question.

[Imran K. 0]

Its nice to be a Malaysian when travelling, being a simple non threatening country we are always welcome everywhere.

 

Completely agree with this statement.

 

Flashing my Malaysian passport throughout the Gulf and Iran has ONLY been to my advantage.

[RoyRX 0]

It has been reported that Thai ATC couldn't contact the Caravan and since it was leaving for Malaysian airspace, the Thais contacted the Malaysian ATC. The main reason why the jets were scrambled was because the pilots were uncontactable. We presume the radio was down. Hence, the need to scramble and have a look, see up there. Thankfully, the pilots complied with whatever instructions they were given, probably through hand signals or deliberate manouvering of the aircraft and the Caravan was escorted to WSSS peacefully.

 

What bugs me is that the Malaysian Transport Minister said that the Caravan was no threat. In this day and age, you'll never know when distarous things will strike. The plane could be carrying something sinister and though it was travelling in the relatively empty east coast, it could just make a turn to the west at short notice.

 

I have 'Ahmad' in my passport but I had no issue with getting a Visa at the US Embassy in KUL. None in my brothers' family had any problems. Neither did any of us had any problem throughout our stay in the US.

 

Back to topic; The Caravan, upon entering Malaysian Airspace would have been in contact with Malaysian ATC. It may be flying VFR and hence, permitted to file an airborne flight plan. So to imply that our local people and authorities were unaware may not be entirely inaccurate.

 

You kinda need to be flying around i the front seat of an aeroplane, preferably both local and international, in VFR and IFR airspace to understand the situation better.

 

[Izanee 0]

we're hoping that the RMAF were aware of the situation and decided that they didn't need to intercept. however, andrew lim's suggestions are quite scary indeed.

 

 

Edited January 30, 2008 by Izanee

[Nik H. 3]

It has been reported that Thai ATC couldn't contact the Caravan and since it was leaving for Malaysian airspace, the Thais contacted the Malaysian ATC. The main reason why the jets were scrambled was because the pilots were uncontactable. We presume the radio was down. Hence, the need to scramble and have a look, see up there. Thankfully, the pilots complied with whatever instructions they were given, probably through hand signals or deliberate manouvering of the aircraft and the Caravan was escorted to WSSS peacefully.

 

What bugs me is that the Malaysian Transport Minister said that the Caravan was no threat. In this day and age, you'll never know when distarous things will strike. The plane could be carrying something sinister and though it was travelling in the relatively empty east coast, it could just make a turn to the west at short notice.

 

RMAF Radar would pick it up the moment it enters Malaysian Airspace. It would have probably overfly the vicinity of Gong Kedak and Kuantan.

 

At best the Caravan can fly at 170 - 200 knots. That's 3 nautical miles a minute. It will probably be cruising at 8-10,000ft, as it is unpressurised. The RMAF can scramble a MIG/Sukhoi/F18 and do an intercept within 5 minutes of any short notice West turn. which means the Caravan would be intercepted after covering just 20 nautical miles on its changed heading. It will not even get past Temerloh.

 

Missiles would not even need to be deployed to blow it out of the sky, just a couple of rounds from a machine gun will do. So i don't think it'd be much of an issue there. I think the RMAF's got its base covered in this case.

[BC Tam 2]

I haven't got the geographic facts handy, but would the Caravan's postulated 5 minutes / 20 nautical miles flight within Singaporean airspace approaching from north have allowed it to reach almost anywhere within the nation ? Certainly over some populated areas, where I can only assume gunning it out of the sky is not an option - not if it can be helped anyway

 

Perhaps this could possibly be a factor in differing approaches to deal with 'potential threat' by our TUDM and the RSAF ?

[Izanee 0]

the malaysian armed forces may not seem like a formidable force when compared to singapore on paper but what they lack in equipment they make up for with spirit, experience and determination. In fact, the British and the Americans utilise the Ranger's experience and skills in guerilla/jungle warfare. RMAF Butterworth is the integrated air defence system HQ for M'sia and S'pore - i'm sure from the radar returns they can make out that it is flying low and at 170-200 knots. Not something to worry about especially if Thai ATC have given them ample warning.

Edited January 30, 2008 by Izanee

[Nik H. 3]

I haven't got the geographic facts handy, but would the Caravan's postulated 5 minutes / 20 nautical miles flight within Singaporean airspace approaching from north have allowed it to reach almost anywhere within the nation ? Certainly over some populated areas, where I can only assume gunning it out of the sky is not an option - not if it can be helped anyway

 

Perhaps this could possibly be a factor in differing approaches to deal with 'potential threat' by our TUDM and the RSAF ?

 

A hostile act with the caravan needs to achieve maximum impact and any 'terrorist' worth his salt would have chosen a target that is important to deliver its mesage, ie Putrajaya, Twin Towers, Parliament House and the like. 20NM from Singapore would mean it'll be able to hit JB or Desaru, important, but hardly senstional in the grand scheme of things.

 

Singapore, being smaller in land area than even Taman Negara, could be right to do the intercept. A caravan at 10,000ft over Singapore can reach almost any point of the island even with its engines shut down. As you inferred correctly, threat assessment is different and potential threat may be treated differently by RSAF and RMAF, chiefly due to the size of the country.

[Andrew Lim 1]

A hostile act with the caravan needs to achieve maximum impact and any 'terrorist' worth his salt would have chosen a target that is important to deliver its mesage, ie Putrajaya, Twin Towers, Parliament House and the like. 20NM from Singapore would mean it'll be able to hit JB or Desaru, important, but hardly senstional in the grand scheme of things.

 

Not if the Caravan's being used as a dirty bomb. A nuclear/chemical device exploding at 10,000ft will definitely make the headlines, regardless of the location.

 

KL may not be within the blast radius but will feel the aftermath as the contaminated air starts drifting north.

 

I think I've watch too many hollywood movies.

 

[Nik H. 3]

Not if the Caravan's being used as a dirty bomb. A nuclear/chemical device exploding at 10,000ft will definitely make the headlines, regardless of the location.

 

KL may not be within the blast radius but will feel the aftermath as the contaminated air starts drifting north.

 

I think I've watch too many hollywood movies.

 

You're right about the Hollywood bit.

 

If any terrorist manages to secure a dirtybomb, they will not waste it on Malaysia, a non-threatening harmless country, so we should not flatter ourselves. Plenty other more attractive targets around the World.

 

[Naim 6]

If any terrorist manages to secure a dirtybomb, they will not waste it on Malaysia, a non-threatening harmless country, so we should not flatter ourselves. Plenty other more attractive targets around the World.

 

Blame it on the politicos who like to tell common folks that we are The Centre of the Universe. Ooooops, sorry, no politician-bashing here too.

 

[BC Tam 2]

An update available here

 

Australian terror scare pilot escapes with fine

 

An Australian pilot whose intrusion into Singapore airspace caused fighter jets to scramble and brought commercial air traffic to a halt was today fined 5000 Singapore dollars ($A3970).

 

Rhys Henry Thomas, 59, of Broome in Western Australia, pleaded guilty yesterday to flying a Cessna float plane without an airworthiness certificate, newspapers reported.

 

Judge Danielle Yeow ordered the former Ansett pilot to pay the maximum fine, but Thomas escaped a possible jail term of up to one year.

 

Singapore scrambled two F-16 fighter jets on January 22 to intercept Thomas' Cessna, which defence officials said did not have an approved flight plan.

 

His lawyer, Salem Ibrahim, told the court that Thomas had noticed a problem with the plane's landing gear after he took off from the Thai resort island of Koh Samui.

 

He decided to fly on and burn off the plane's dangerous fuel load before attempting a landing at Singapore's secondary Seletar Airport, which he chose partly because of its maintenance facilities, Salem said.

 

But Singapore airforce fighters intercepted him and forced the small plane down at the main Changi Airport.

 

The incident caused the shutdown of commercial air space over the busy airport for 50 minutes. At least 16 aircraft were forced to circle, delaying arrivals and departures, and costing airlines thousands of dollars in fuel.

 

"I am pleased that the ordeal is finally over. The only thing I want to do now is to catch the next flight out of Singapore to go back to Australia to see my mother," Thomas said in a statement issued by his lawyer.

 

The Straits Times earlier reported that the pilot's mother had suffered a heart attack in February.

 

Thomas is co-owner of the Broome-based Horizontal Falls Travel Adventure company, which offers tourists air and sea tours of the remote waterfalls and gorges along the rugged Kimberley coast.

 

A passenger travelling with Thomas, also said to be an Australian man, was not charged over the incident.

 

Singapore, a close ally of the United States in its "war on terror", takes elaborate precautions to guard against possible attacks by extremists.

 

AFP