Naim 6 Report post Posted July 26, 2006 Remember the Armavia A320 crash almost 3 months back? This is quick. .ny BBC Wednesday, 26 July 2006, 12:40 GMT 13:40 UK Armenia air crash blamed on crew Tailfin from crashed Armavia jet The plane plunged into the sea as it tried to land Investigators examining what caused an Armenian airliner to crash with the loss of all 113 people on board have blamed pilot error. The Armavia A320 Airbus plunged into the Black Sea on 3 May as it tried to land near the Russian city of Sochi. "The human factor in bad weather played a role," Russian Transport Minister Igor Levitin said. Investigators said the crew lost control of the plane during the descent and were unable to regain altitude. Most of the victims were Armenian, but there were also 26 Russian citizens. Among those on board were six children. 'Lost control' Mr Levitin was speaking in Moscow to announce the results of an enquiry into the crash held by the Russian government and investigators from Armenia and France. Tatyana Anodina, head of the inter-governmental committee that took part in the enquiry, said that during the descent the captain "did not ensure control of the plane as far as angle and altitude were concerned," according to Russia's Itar-Tass news agency. Ms Anodina said that the co-pilot also failed to "ensure necessary control". She added that an alarm system had gone off as the plane was plunging but it was too late to regain altitude. The investigators said that there had been no engine failure or fuel shortage. The A320 crashed at about 0215 (2215 GMT) as it made a second attempt to land at Adler airport, just outside Sochi. It was initially refused permission to land because of poor weather. The plane reportedly hit the sea at an angle of 60 degrees, six kilometres (four miles) from the coast. Armavia said the plane was in good condition and that the crew were experienced. The Airbus was manufactured in 1995. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PC Yuen 0 Report post Posted July 26, 2006 Could it be "going back home syndrome"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seth K 3 Report post Posted July 26, 2006 Can't wait for this episode in "Air Crash Investigation" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tony 1 Report post Posted July 26, 2006 Could it be "going back home syndrome"? You mean, push-on-itis? As far as I'm concerned, the outcome of this investigation is not good enough to persuade me why the incident happened. Fair enough, human/pilot error. But everytime something goes wrong, they blame it on human error. What error actually did occur? Not explained. Pfff~ Did not "ensure control". What does that mean anyway? Loss of situational awareness or the pilots forgot how to fly the plane in that time? Not stated. And yet, they closed the story by saying that the crew is experienced. WHAT REALLY DID GO WRONG? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gavin Andrew David 6 Report post Posted July 28, 2006 Autopilot is in command ma .. How to blame human ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
simon T 0 Report post Posted July 28, 2006 althought maybe "Mr. George" was engaged,but the pilots are still flying the airplane."Mr.George" just takes care of the grunt work of maintaining pitch and attitude.. a lack of situational awareness can be fatal.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew Yong 0 Report post Posted July 28, 2006 Hope this inccident not happen again!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Radzi 2 Report post Posted July 28, 2006 Autopilot is in command ma .. How to blame human ? Autopilot controls aircraft Human controls autopilot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tony 1 Report post Posted July 28, 2006 Yeah. No matter how smart computers are, they still need an operator (i.e. pilot in this case) for data input and to monitor that it's doing the right thing. Mode confusion has been identified as one of the main contributory factors to numerous incidents & accidents in the industry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
simon T 0 Report post Posted July 28, 2006 i don know bout u guys..but for me..whenever i am in doubt with the operation of the AFCS(automated flight control system),i ALWAYS disengage the autopilot and hand-fly the aircraft first..reassess the situation..then only reengage the autopilot if safety is not compromised.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Denny Yen 0 Report post Posted July 28, 2006 (edited) That A320 crashed in the Black Sea while trying to land in bad weather, which killed everyone onboard. Investigators recovered both black boxes from the site. Preliminary review of the CVR revealed, as per investigators, spatial disorientation and pitch-up illusion may have contributed to the crash. However, the exact cause will not be known until they complete the entire investigation which may take 1 - 2 years. Since 2003, there are several pilot disorientation-caused crashes. For e.g., spatial disorientation, which was made worst by confusion with auto-pilot, was also believed to be the cause of the Flash Airlines 737 crash in Red Sea. Edited July 28, 2006 by Denny Yen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tony 1 Report post Posted July 28, 2006 Denny, mind explaining spatial disorientation and pitch-up illusion? Thanks! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Denny Yen 0 Report post Posted July 29, 2006 (edited) Denny, mind explaining spatial disorientation and pitch-up illusion? Thanks! Are you asking me to do your homework for you? Spatial disorientation is heavily researched in aviation medicine especially by USAF. It occurs when a pilot's perception of direction does not agree with realityand the only way to prevent it is good training to fly by instruments. In normal condition, we achieve spatial orientation - when our body maintains orientation/posture in relation to the surrounding in a 3D space. We are able to achieve this through our visual, vestibular and proprioceptive senses. In aviation, it usually occurs during low/zero visibility when there are discrepancies between visual, vestibular, and proprioceptive sensory inputs. It causes illusions because the brain receives wrong inputs/interpretation of the perceived reality vs actual reality. The illusions are numerous, pitch-up/head-up illusion - occurs when a sudden change in acceleration whereby the pilot gets wrong sensory input that the aircraft is pitching-up and his wrong response is to push aircraft downwards. Aviation medicine research reading: http://web.mit.edu/16.459/www/AvTrain2.pdf Reading for the lay-man: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatial_disorientation Edited July 29, 2006 by Denny Yen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
simon T 0 Report post Posted July 29, 2006 i'm not sure how could this have happened to professional pilots..from day 1 of my IFR training,we have always been taught to "BELIEVE YOUR INSTRUMENTS"..but spatial disorientation is something very real and can happen to rookies who don't follow their instuments.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Denny Yen 0 Report post Posted July 29, 2006 Spatial disorientation had been recorded amongst US Navy pilots - the best trained fighter pilots in the world. It can occurs as soon as when they were catapulted into the black sky. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tony 1 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 Are you asking me to do your homework for you? Relax, Denny. Just thought you could elaborate the issue whilst we're on it - not everyone knows about it. I've read about spatial disorientation last year and I summarised it as: "you think you're there, but you're really not". Happens when pilots get anxious under certain circumstance, e.g. too much uncertainties & when facing immense workload. Pitch up illusion, well, my first time hearing it - but heard of quite similar incidents happening to A340s and the flight computer onboard. The thing with Airbuses is that they react first, THEN tell you what went wrong. Boeing tells you what's wrong and expects you to react. I don't know which one is better, but it sounds like the Boeing idealogy has less risks of mode confusion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
simon T 0 Report post Posted July 30, 2006 flying a figher jet and an airliner is totally different..you don't reckon you'll pull 6.5 Gs and doing inverted loops in an airliner do you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Denny Yen 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2006 ... I summarised it as: "you think you're there, but you're really not". Sounds like trying to find the G-spot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tony 1 Report post Posted July 31, 2006 Sounds like trying to find the G-spot Aha~ I..err...never thought of that... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
