flee
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Posts posted by flee
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Frankly I do not see what benefits LCCs can derive out of a FFP unless they change the FFP model into something that is a win-win situation. If the current FFP model is used, then all it means is more cost to the airline. For the FF, I doubt if there is any excitement of being in the FFP programme if it is to be based on the present model.
I think AK/D7 already has some sort of marketing tool other than FFP, e.g. their Facebook fan page, the AA Citibank card, etc. So a FFP should not really be a priority for them.
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Yes, LAN is already a 767 operator and it makes sense to buy more 767's while waiting for the delayed 787. They might have gotten a good price for these aircraft too. They also managed to get earlier delivery slots for some 787s due to cancellations by others. So Boeing is giving priority to existing orders when delivery slots become vacant so as to minimise their compensation payments.
The MH scenario is somewhat similar - it is already operating A330s and it might have gotten a good price for the new and improved A333s that it has ordered due to the compensation that Airbus is giving for the delayed A380s. The new A333s will be able to fill in while MH is waiting for B787/A350 delivery dates to become more definitive.
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Thank you guys for the info as I just came across this thread after a month.
Sent them a mail see how professional they are to handle case like this
Sorry for OT.
Maybe we can start a sticky "copyright infringement" thread...
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None needed maybe if MH purchase JL 787 slots or goes with JAL to buy 787 as JL has purchase power which effect MH could get in skyteam.
I think that Boeing will probably offer any vacant B787 delivery slots to its existing customers first so that they can reduce the compensation settlements to them. New orders will just go to the back of the queue.
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Airbus will begin a short flight-test programme of the A350's Rolls-Royce Trent XWB on the A380 development aircraft early next year, ahead of engine certification at the end of 2011.
The new Trent engine, which is the only powerplant option offered on the A350, will be installed in one of the inboard positions on Airbus's Trent 900-powered A380 development aircraft (MSN001) later this year and begin flight-testing early in 2011. "We will fly a short flight-test programme of around 100h," says Airbus's flight-test chief Fernando Alonso. The tests will be focused on engine, nacelle and powerplant system integration.
R-R says that ahead of the A380 flights, a Trent XWB will begin ground-testing in June.
Full report here: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/01/19/337301/airbus-to-test-fly-a350s-trent-on-a380-next-year.html
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but i have a question, i do know about chevron shape result in lower noise but still have no idea about slight fuel penalty...hhmmm...i need explainations...
This is OT. Perhaps you can check out the patent: Chevron exhaust nozzle for a gas turbine engine
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That;s why i've also stressed out somewhere that the 5th Generation keyboard warriors are here, based on B787 technology somemore.. fuyoh...
, all highly equiped with the latest I know Boeing/Airbus technology 
. Let's see some more guys.. "Ting Ting!" Round xx
Hehehehe, there is no real need for that lah! Whatever we say here is not going to affect what MH does. However, airlines will listen to their fare paying customers. A case in point is D7. Many pax conplained about their narrow and non reclining A333 seats and initially they said that this is the only way to make the economics work. But soon, you will see that most of the discussion about D7 centred around their seats. It has become such a liability that D7 has begun to retrofit new seats, starting with 9M-XXE. Now that is being responsive to customers' feedback.
I am sure MH will take note of customer feedback. I think that the A333 replacement is really urgent as customers don't like the current product. MH might also follow SQ's example and make their A333 cabin and seats similar to that of the A380. So most pax will think that the A333 is just the same as the A380's.
So lets see if MH's decision is right come 2011.
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I agree with you Kenneth. But the thing is, there's not much that MAS can do atm. Things don't seem to be going their way atm, as far as wide-body a/c is concerned
Unfortunately these guys don't really want to hear this - they want MH to order the B787 now and nothing else. I have been telling them throughout this thread that the A333 is MH's best option under current circumstances but they refuse to accept the rationale. They refuse to accept that the A333 that MH ordered is different and much improved from those that are currently in the fleet. They refuse to accept to leasing is not an option as MH will have difficulty finding newish A333's or B767s to lease in such numbers. They refuse to accept that there are other factors that MH has to consider, e.g. maintenance and training costs of a new type of aircraft such as the B787. They refused to look at the big picture and that MH could be ordering those new tech aircraft later on, after some real life operational experience has been gained. They refuse to accept that the B787/A350 has the possibility of further lengthy delays as the aircraft has a lot of new and unproven technonolgy. They refuse to accept that MH's priorities are different from their own!
That is why I gave up trying to explain... running an airline is more than just choosing aircraft types based on fuel burn and new technology.
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Does KLIA really need a 3rd runway now ?
I think that currently there are queues for planes taking off in the mornings and evenings. So it is slightly congested (maybe 10-20 mins waiting time for takeoffs) during those times. For an LCC like AirAsia, that is precious fuel burnt up sitting in the queue. So this extra runway will save some taxi and waiting time for aircraft operating from the LCCT.
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I wonder what the situation would be like once the new LCCT construction is complete? Will we be able to find somewhere strategic to get our shots? With two parallel runways the prospect of interesting shots (like those that come out of some other similar airports around the world) is quite exciting, isn't it? That is provided the bulis don't spoil the party!
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FLEE WHY CAN CHINA EASTERN GET THERES BY 2014?
There is no need to shout!
As you should know, aircraft purchasing contracts are seldom (if ever) disclosed to the public. So only China Eastern can tell us why they can get their planes in 2014 and why MH or D7 can't. Many factors are involved, so your guess is as good as mine!
I know you anti A333 guys are itching for MH to get onboard new tech aircraft. However, you should really be looking at how MH is run. History has shown us that MH is seldom on the leading edge. When Malaysia-Singapore Airlines split up MH took over the F-27, Twin Otters, B737s etc. while SQ took the B707s. So you can see that MH is operating to the Malaysian govt. agenda and is run like a civil service.
As someone has said, we cannot live in denial all the time. Like it or not, MH is not in the Top 10 world airlines list unless a fully professional management is in charge, free from govt. interference. Currently it is not capable of making decisions that have long lead times for results. They are doing crisis management, not long term strategic management!
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Exactly, that's the point but MH is moving back in time. Let's not be surprise since this is Malaysia, everything seems slow. Let's start with our national car, one model last for than 10 years. Sad to say that, some Malaysian are now willing to accept suggestion from other parties, they view such thing as criticism and not willing to listen.
Unfortunately, MH is paying for the mistakes of the past. The present management has to make decisions based on current facts and the current business environment. Even well run airlines like SQ faced severe challenges last year and their financial position is not as good as before.
Most taxpayers would not like to see MH in the red again as they (via the govt.) will have to bail them out again. In terms of risk, the tried and tested A333 will do for now. This aircraft will definitely be superior to the old fleet. When the B787/A350 has some real world operational numbers and more definite delivery slots, it would be easier for MH to evaluate the aircraft. By then the MH management will also be able to see what they need for their future plans.
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Looks like the AK's 9M-AFx series of planes (being the oldest A322s) are progressively getting a new coat of paint.
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THIS DOES NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION! So woudn't MH get discount if they order 350-800 which is close to the 787-9 It's better to move foward than to fly back in time.
But if its like QF that cancelled their 15 787's they can jump in
And when will MH get these paper aeroplanes if they ordered them now? D7 ordered the A350 last year and first deliveries will only commence in 2016, assuming that there are no delays to the project schedule. Similarly, the B787 may also experience further delivery delays. These new tech aircraft are the first of their kind - so we are threading in the dark here and there may still be unforeseen problems coming up. Lets see what the B787 certification testing show up...
As for leasing A333s from the market, it is not as easy as you guys think. There is a shortage of aircraft and lease rates are high. Besides, leasing is now no longer part of the MH policy. That is why many of us here are of the opinion that based on the current info and MH's requirements, the A333 order is the correct decision. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush.
No doubt, MH will need to order more new wide bodies in the near future - their fleet renewal plans are by no means complete at the moment.
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Than why can CHina Eastern is able to get there's by 2014? The 330 is a tempoary situation MH needs the 787 soon as a airline cancels MH take it, because this could me early slots and better brand, I am suprised the did not take the QF bunch that were canceled.
I believe that some compensation from Airbus for the A380 delays is involved - so this A333 deal could have saved MH a ton of money. That will be good for the bottom line!
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I agree, MH is only looking at stuff that have reached "emergency" status! They cannot possible postpone the A330 fleet renewal order any more. It is fortunate that Airbus had some delivery slots for 2011 available for them! I think that for the B772 renewal they have already started by buying the newest aircraft from PNB. They now have to decide on what mix of A380/B772/B787/A350 they need. Lets hope that they will make more orders this year and not wait till those old planes fall apart!
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Comparing A330 with 787 is inappropriate as both in different class like comparing 757/767 with 777. Believe A330 should be compare with A350/777.
If that is what you say, then why are you and some others blasting MH for not ordering the B787 to replace their A330's?
i don't see why they are giving away the early delivery slots on the A380s, though the aircraft has been delayed for more than 2 years when it's finally delivered to MH.
MH did not give away any delivery slots. All the delays are from Airbus' side. Last year, they only delivered 10 A380s - that should explain why Airbus requested another 6 month delay for the MH A380 deliveries. They are having tremendous problems ramping up production. As far as I know, only SQ and Emirates have requested for delivery delays.
I'm pretty confident that people at MAS know what they're doing. That's the reason they're hired in the first place.
If buying 50 A350s and B787s is such an easy task, and no proper planning is involved, any Tom, Dick and Harry from MWings can be CEO of MAS, don't you agree? What are we gonna do with 50 brand new birds if we order them for the sake of catching up with regional competitors? Fly them to Siem Reap and Yangon 10 times daily?
Well summarised! Some of us think running an airline is a piece of cake and they can make better decisions!
The MH management have the all the numbers about their business while we here are merely speculating only about fuel burn! So how come we know much more about fleet renewal than the MH management?
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Quotes from A.Net thread above:
The A333 has a CASM that matches the 77W. With the increased weight, the only 787 that will beat the A333 in CASM will be late build 789's. Even then, the margin will not be much. This will not be like the 727 where the new aircraft were opperating with far lower costs. Instead, we see long missions that will go to the 787, but for many other missions the A330, in particular the A333, will have a cost advantage.The A332 will fade with time once the 789 is optimized. But the 788 is not a direct competitor and we're talking circa 2015+ delivery times.
The other nice thing about the A333 range (c. 4000 miles, 8-9 hours) is that also co-incides with the time that you DON'T need full-flat separate crew rest. To have a 12 hour aircraft (A340-300, B787-800/900, you lose a few seats and add weight if you want to make use of that range, making them less competitive on the sub 4000 mile routes. Unless you remove the crew rest, in which case the aircraft can't use the range it has got...Primarily because airlines, in my opinion, make a purchasing decision based on the net present value of that purchase. With the wait for 787's being SO long, it may well be that the NPV of acquiring and operating an A330 which is obtainable in 2 years time beats the NPV of commiting to an aircraft that is not obtainable for 7 years.An airline can make a LOT of money with an A330 in 5 years.
Might even be enough to have paid for the aircraft, if they're lucky.
An airline opting for an A333 now is a safe choice. If the range is enough, like all Europe - East Coast routes, there is no other relatively small aircraft that is as efficient, the 77W is about the same and only 748 and A380 are more efficient, but much bigger. The 789 will have difficulties to match the A333 in this role. If you need larger range, no doubt...And it remains to be seen if the 787, compared to the A332, will be able to produce better profits given its lower pay load.
So the decision for the A330 vs. 787 may be the safer option - you risk less and maybe profit less. Ordering 787s still is more of a gamble than A330s.
If you have A330 slots really far down the decade, it is also obvious that neither the type is
fixed by now, nor can we expect it to be not improved, nor should the replacement of the second digit "3" by a "5" be too difficult and cost more than a few phone calls and a few million.
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I don't think the A330s is a more superior aircraft than the B787s. By looking at the new features like larger window, better humidity and etc, A330s is far lacked behind. What I can say is B787s will not be an old junk in 10 years time but A330s is likely the case. Let's not forget that, there are currently 3 variants on the B787s of which only one variant if which we had seen.
Permit me quote from the thread again!
IMHO this is unlikely to happen to A330s any time soon because:1. Some leading airlines (SQ, VS, MH, etc.) are still receiving or about to receive new-build A330s.
2. Good potential for P2F conversion and re-sale as many airlines are currently flying less efficient/capable aircrafts.
3. A330 can hold its own against the 787 in some mission profile, plus all the infrastructure/crew considerations.
A330 is the "safe" choice at the moment, and will remain so until more is known about the 787 and confidence can be built up on its production. It is not coincidental that it was the best-selling widebody in 2009 by a long shot.
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When MH introduce A380 in 2012, MH would have lost market shares for over 3 years. Unless MH is very innovative and competitive, it will be an uphill battle for MH to recapture market share.
I would question that. Even enthusiasts want to try different airlines. Sometimes you just can't book a seat on the day of your choice, so you have to go on alternative airlines. Even Tony Fernandes has to fly SQ to London because he cannot get a ticket on his own airline! Asian airlines tend to have quite full flights these days.
As I have said earlier, people tend to choose based of cost and frequency first and foremost. By the time MH receives its first A380 in August 2011, A380s will be more commonplace and the competition levels out. As the saying goes, "its not what you have but what you do with it that is more important".
Do read that a.net thread about A330 economics. The B787 is not as superior as some people think they are...
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The aviation industry is a high risk, long leadtime industry. Decisions made today may be totally wrong or a highly inspired one in 3 or 4 years. Airbus was preparing for the A330/A340's death a few years ago. But the B787 was so complex that it was delayed by more than 2 years. The Airbus A380 and A400M were similarly delayed. Those who had ordered this "leading edge" technologies now have to spend more money scrambling to buy "stop gap" aircraft. So MH's decision looks "well planned" since it does not need to have stop gap aircraft while waiting for their B787s.
So far, the last 3 "new technology" aircraft are all delayed as manufacturers grapple with the new technology. Will the A350 be similarly delayed? It is going to bigger than the B787, so the challenges will be slightly different. Whether Airbus has learnt its lessons from the past, we shall see. Whether Boeing has learnt lessons from the A380's painful production ramp up problems, we shall see!
Here is what the EADS chief had to say on the A380...
EADS chief Louis Gallois has listed cost control of the Airbus A380 programme as a priority in 2010.Speaking during a joint EADS and Airbus event in Seville today, he said: "Actual production costs are significantly above expectations."
He adds that the production ramp-up remains "difficult to manage".
"Clearly we are not out of the woods," he says.
Airbus chief Tom Enders admits that the manufacturer has "not come to grips with this complex aircraft".
He says it will remain a "financial liability" for "years to come", but flagged up airline customers' appreciation of the jet.
Airbus is aiming to deliver at least 20 A380s this year. There are currently 23 in service worldwide.
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Extensive marketing efforts by Emirates, SQ and etc, nowadays passengers are more well educated and aware of the new product and aircraft that they are flying in. In addition to that, new features and comfort that are available on today's most technologically advanced aircraft often left good memory behind. Having said that, if an airline operator is using for the example an aircraft which burn more fuel, they are not able to lower the price of the ticket due to cost factor which makes lots sense.
As I have said, MH is buying instead of leasing - so capital costs are lower. And as I have said before, fuel burn is only one of the operating costs of an airline. There are other costs too. At the end of the day, only MH knows their numbers and bottom line. We don't even know what kind of deal that is being struck for the A333's (by MH) or B787's (by other airlines). At this point, the advantages and disadvantages that we have been debating on are merely our own speculative thoughts. So lets wait and see when the time comes...
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The vast majority of pax who fly don't really know or care what planes they go on. All they care about is the cost, the comfort, the lounges, the loyalty programmes and the convenience of the timetable. Only enthusiasts like us worry and bitch about aircraft details!
MAS New 15 A330-300X + 4 A330-200 Freighter
in General Aviation
Posted · Report reply
After reading yesterday's piece on The Star, it would appear that the immediate strategy is to deploy the A333s on Asian and Middle East destinations, 772/744 on other long haul destinations and the A380 on the kangaroo runs. It should be interesting to see what MH orders to replace the 744/772 - this should be done in the next 2 or 3 years.