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Jonathan Kong

Lufthansa to Terminate Kuala Lumpur on 1 March 2016

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Of course living in Zurich, LH is always one of the options for a flight for me to KUL. However, their prices are not competitive vs the middle east airlines, and if I book early enough, I can also go SQ. So not a very attractive option and not very competitive.

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My friend who work with Siemens always take ME or TK flight to Germany. He said, finance dept always turndown LH ticket quotation due to unreasonable eye-popping price.

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Flew KUL-FRA in October in economy and the service was very good. Also on busy flights, when travelling with my wife, I much prefer the seating arrangement of the A340/A330 over the B777/A380. You can get a window and aisle seat together.

 

I think the LH service is another victim of the ME3.

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Sad news for KUL. Very limited non stop service to Europe... We will definitely lose out with so few connections. Bangkok is low yield but there is a huge volume of travellers from Europe so they still are safe for now

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Malaysia's only direct link to Central Europe is now cutoff. Hoping with A350s coming online in next few years, MH can restart FRA (and the likes of AMS and CDG) again.

MH won't be resuming FRA anytime soon - the A350s are for LHR and if they order more, I think there are higher priority cities for the 350s.

 

Sad news indeed for KUL. Hopefully KL can increase their frequencies?

That depends on the future of the MH/KL JV. But it also seems likely that's going away.

 

Is/was load/yield on KUL-FRA really that seriously pathetic for MH and LH to call it a day on the route so soon after each other ? :huh:

Or could it be BA's return to KUL that has tipped the balance towards non-viable state ?

Here are a few reasons why LH failed at KUL:

- KUL yields are trash (KUL is a low-yield destination for most airlines)

- No onward connections beyond KUL (other than a few handful domestic stations)

- Low O&D demand

- Wrong aircraft (LH has fuel guzzler albeit "luxurious" A343 whilst BA and KL has high density 787/777 respectively)

- MYR sudden depreciation

- ME3 + TK

Edited by Craig

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Surprised about low O&D demand..I'm sure there is business traffic between Malaysia and Germany?

Also I'm surprised that so few European tourists come to Malaysia. You hardly get 130 000 people travelling to KL from France and you get 1.6 million Russians per year travelling to Thailand!!

Such a huge disparity is mind boggling. We must be a s#1t tourist destination and s#1t and promoting ourselves

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Well, at least in a German Airliners forum there´s a rumour that LH will return to KUL with northern winter schedule 2016/2017 or summer schedule 2017 with A 350-900 ...

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KLM ams-kul is currently feasible because KLM channel dps and Australia bound pax via kul.

 

European holiday makers paid thousand of euro to holiday in Asia, doubt many are happy with faked ham and bacon at breakfast. Breakfast may not be a priority to many but it contributed to the overall experience.

Edited by KK Lee

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MH won't be resuming FRA anytime soon - the A350s are for LHR and if they order more, I think there are higher priority cities for the 350s.

AF's and LH's decision to terminate KUL services sort of confirms MAB's view what the EU market has shrunk so much for non ME3 airlines that it is better to focus on other markets.

 

MAB did have options for A330NEOs with ALC - so any return to FRA might only be made in 2018 or later.

 

Too bad for LH - they cannot even sustain a 3X weekly service in winter, so it is best not to continue...

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Surprised about low O&D demand..I'm sure there is business traffic between Malaysia and Germany?

Also I'm surprised that so few European tourists come to Malaysia. You hardly get 130 000 people travelling to KL from France and you get 1.6 million Russians per year travelling to Thailand!!

Such a huge disparity is mind boggling. We must be a s#1t tourist destination and s#1t and promoting ourselves

 

I don't really think that Malaysia is such a very low yielding destination. Perhaps, all these tourists or business travellers prefer to go to Malaysia via Singapore or Hong Kong.

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Given country industrial policy and resources, sgn will eventually have more non stop flight to china, japan and e.u than kul.

Edited by KK Lee

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Given country industrial policy and resources, sgn will eventually have more non stop flight to china, japan and e.u than kul.

 

Vietnam is starting to get attention from more European tourists, it was always popular with French and Russian tourists, but now you are seeing more German, British etc… tourists heading over there. Though LH did axe SGN quite awhile back, with VN keeping AF afloat at SGN, AF axed HAN a couple years back and pretty much handed the route over to VN. VN is still quite a weak carrier, though it is growing and an airline with new shiny planes, so its an airline and a market too look out for. I guess Vietnam overall is more 'relaxed' with less religious restrictions, same as Thailand, though less wild!

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AF's and LH's decision to terminate KUL services sort of confirms MAB's view what the EU market has shrunk so much for non ME3 airlines that it is better to focus on other markets.

 

MAB did have options for A330NEOs with ALC - so any return to FRA might only be made in 2018 or later.

 

Too bad for LH - they cannot even sustain a 3X weekly service in winter, so it is best not to continue...

3x weekly is hard to sustain due to crew cost. But it's not what the EU market has shrunk - AF aren't doing too well financially and they are shrinking globally. Other airlines like CX is growing in EU - new flights to DUS, ZRH and MAN and soon LGW and MAD.

 

 

I don't really think that Malaysia is such a very low yielding destination. Perhaps, all these tourists or business travellers prefer to go to Malaysia via Singapore or Hong Kong.

Malaysia is very low-yield. Just a few examples of MH OW partners:

 

JL - flies more than once daily to CGK (and with 4-class 77W!), SIN, BKK

CX - 7-8 daily flights to SIN (although KUL get most of the long-haul planes whilst SIN is mostly high-density 773/333), even more flights to BKK and about the same amount of flights to CGK

BA - 1 77W and 1 380 to SIN

AY - 1 daily to BKK and SIN (we get LGK as a consolation :p )

QR - 3 daily 380 and 1 77W to BKK

QF - 1 daily to BKK/CGK and multiple daily flights to SIN

 

You would think if MH is in OW, there'd be more OW flights to KUL since it's considered a "hub to hub" route, but the opposite is true.

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Vietnam is starting to get attention from more European tourists, it was always popular with French and Russian tourists, but now you are seeing more German, British etc… tourists heading over there. Though LH did axe SGN quite awhile back, with VN keeping AF afloat at SGN, AF axed HAN a couple years back and pretty much handed the route over to VN. VN is still quite a weak carrier, though it is growing and an airline with new shiny planes, so its an airline and a market too look out for. I guess Vietnam overall is more 'relaxed' with less religious restrictions, same as Thailand, though less wild!

Ditto!

 

3x weekly is hard to sustain due to crew cost. But it's not what the EU market has shrunk - AF aren't doing too well financially and they are shrinking globally. Other airlines like CX is growing in EU - new flights to DUS, ZRH and MAN and soon LGW and MAD.

 

Malaysia is very low-yield. Just a few examples of MH OW partners:

 

JL - flies more than once daily to CGK (and with 4-class 77W!), SIN, BKK

CX - 7-8 daily flights to SIN (although KUL get most of the long-haul planes whilst SIN is mostly high-density 773/333), even more flights to BKK and about the same amount of flights to CGK

BA - 1 77W and 1 380 to SIN

AY - 1 daily to BKK and SIN (we get LGK as a consolation :p )

QR - 3 daily 380 and 1 77W to BKK

QF - 1 daily to BKK/CGK and multiple daily flights to SIN

 

You would think if MH is in OW, there'd be more OW flights to KUL since it's considered a "hub to hub" route, but the opposite is true.

Agree! KUL yield is low and heavily reliant on O/D passengers. It can't never catch up with BKK or SIN for either business or leisure market with the current economic and socio-political climate. Vietnam is just behind and catching up soon.

 

Bangkok has shown they are very resilient even with the Bangkok bombing earlier this year, the booking to many parts of Thailand remains very solid. Russia charter airlines like Transaero could pack 500+ pax in their B744 with no issue. Others close to 400+ on their B777. Each time AirAsia runs promotion, BKK (DMK in this case) will be the first destination to be sold out.

 

As for SIN, it is a given. Strong fiscal rating, robust economy policies, 'perceived' good holiday destination and booming medical tourism.

 

KUL is now back to 1998 era when every other EU based airlines + Qantas left in drove.

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KUL has always had great potential, and this is reflected in the decision of many multi nationals to have operating bases in KLIA, not to mention the likes of BMW, Siemens, Allianz etc.. But when these offices don't grow because of perceived poor economic management and progress, further hampered by inefficiencies and political scandals - what else can you expect? LH leaving again was a long time on the wall.. Their return years ago was coupled with the Brahims-LSG Skychefs deal that has since ended..that proved to be a cash-cow I'm sure (given the talk about corrupt contractual processes that are so widely spread). With SIA, they can plant big metal (the A380 or B748) in SIN and codeshare with SQ/MI.. The same JV applies to Swiss as well, so Switzerland is covered.. BKK remains popular because the Germans absolutely love the place.. Perhaps if Malaysia had the same offerings, it too would be popular and yield wouldn't be so much of a problem. Then again, that in itself is a catch22.. Malaysians are migrating out and some even don't plan or bother to return. If we had a population that broadened it's horizons through overseas travel/eduction and brought those experiences home - we would be a yielding place. But we can't afford that even because the Ringgit is being wrung dry! The picture is constantly being painted that all is rosy, yet we have increasingly polarised communities, increasing levels of religious radicalisation (and not just the always accused-Islam), increasing cost of living, increased security worries, increased competitiveness from

Fast rising ASEAN neighbours like Vietnam and Myanmar... While still thinking our standard of English and tertiary education is the best in wherever we feel without spending more money AND time on education and national unity... How like that? And then we need to sew up cabin crew uniforms so they are less revealing, depend on middle-eastern donors and think about armor playing our cars and homes to beef up against petty theft and crime that ain't so petty, and often murderous at the hands of drugged up addicts because the solution to that problem still puts a bunch of self-proclaimed big shots out of pocket for their own vices and wants..

A once great country sits to the north of our Borneo shores, once the epitome of modernity and forward thinking. Visit the place today and you will see the effects of what an exported or emigrant workforce (professional and skilled) does on the local economy and way of life. Learn from history, adapt our thinking, live and work together and enjoy the fruits of our labor - one which with a simple change in mind, may actually be quite effortless.

 

Then maybe we can enjoy shooting more and more colourful Tails at our airport, and silently be proud when all those foreigners see and photograph our Wau Bulan on their shores.

 

LH for now, via BKK or SIN. Until perhaps the A350... Even then a big maybe..

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Very sad to see the state of affairs in Malaysia... one step forward, two steps back. The socioeconomic and political development takes a backseat to these buggers trying to stay in power

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Vietnam is starting to get attention from more European tourists, it was always popular with French and Russian tourists, but now you are seeing more German, British etc… tourists heading over there. Though LH did axe SGN quite awhile back, with VN keeping AF afloat at SGN, AF axed HAN a couple years back and pretty much handed the route over to VN. VN is still quite a weak carrier, though it is growing and an airline with new shiny planes, so its an airline and a market too look out for. I guess Vietnam overall is more 'relaxed' with less religious restrictions, same as Thailand, though less wild!

I do not see religion being the main issue here as millions of people travel to Turkey, Egypt, UAE and other Muslim countries every year. From my understanding, most travellers who have visited Malaysia (or KL at least) found out that it is being too modern, too multiracial and it doesnt has a strong single identity such as Japan or Thailand. At least, this is what I read from some Trip Reports about KL on A.net and FlyerTalk.

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I do not see religion being the main issue here as millions of people travel to Turkey, Egypt, UAE and other Muslim countries every year. From my understanding, most travellers who have visited Malaysia (or KL at least) found out that it is being too modern, too multiracial and it doesnt has a strong single identity such as Japan or Thailand. At least, this is what I read from some Trip Reports about KL on A.net and FlyerTalk.

 

Good point. This is why outside Malaysia, Malaysian restaurants do not do as well as Thai restaurants for example. The food is too varied. You can crave Thai food in general and go look for a Thai restaurant, but there is no such thing as craving "malaysian food", you would instead crave for single items like nasi lemak, chicken rice, satay, etc., but even this you only do if you know Malaysian food very well. There is a lack of a single identity.

 

And because we modernise too much, there is a distinct lack of "culture" to see.

Edited by Azman MN

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I do not see religion being the main issue here as millions of people travel to Turkey, Egypt, UAE and other Muslim countries every year. From my understanding, most travellers who have visited Malaysia (or KL at least) found out that it is being too modern, too multiracial and it doesnt has a strong single identity such as Japan or Thailand. At least, this is what I read from some Trip Reports about KL on A.net and FlyerTalk.

Actually it does. Recently there was a bad brawl between two ethnicity happened right in the smack of KL most famous shopping belt. Plenty of my friends around the region cancelled their trips and divert to Singapore or Thailand. Some just let their cheap fare burnt. To add salt to the wound, several countries/ embassies and MNCs issued travel warning to Malaysia.

 

Actually Malaysia's multi-cultural identity is our major selling point. Every corner and states in Malaysia has something mysterious to be discovered. Unfortunately even though we are blessed with beautiful beaches, lush green rain forest and relatively affordable delicacies, other factors become major bane for the country to progress.

 

LH has a history of cancelling and bringing KUL back online. Hopefully they will return soon enough...with shiny new A350!!

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Actually it does. Recently there was a bad brawl between two ethnicity happened right in the smack of KL most famous shopping belt. Plenty of my friends around the region cancelled their trips and divert to Singapore or Thailand. Some just let their cheap fare burnt. To add salt to the wound, several countries/ embassies and MNCs issued travel warning to Malaysia.

 

Actually Malaysia's multi-cultural identity is our major selling point. Every corner and states in Malaysia has something mysterious to be discovered. Unfortunately even though we are blessed with beautiful beaches, lush green rain forest and relatively affordable delicacies, other factors become major bane for the country to progress.

 

LH has a history of cancelling and bringing KUL back online. Hopefully they will return soon enough...with shiny new A350!!

 

Thailand went through various protests, sit-ins, bomb blasts, blocking the highway to the airport in the past, and these were widely reported in Europe. It hasn't affected their tourism industry at all in the long term.

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Good point. This is why outside Malaysia, Malaysian restaurants do not do as well as Thai restaurants for example. The food is too varied. You can crave Thai food in general and go look for a Thai restaurant, but there is no such thing as craving "malaysian food", you would instead crave for single items like nasi lemak, chicken rice, satay, etc., but even this you only do if you know Malaysian food very well. There is a lack of a single identity.

 

And because we modernise too much, there is a distinct lack of "culture" to see.

 

Agree, lack of a single identity. Taking the food is a good example.

 

However, that only applies to those who do not know Malaysia very well and have not 'tried' it. Many foreigners have negative perception towards Malaysia until they have actually step on Malaysia soil, and they will like to return once they have been there. Without knowing much about Malaysia, they rather don't risk their time and money and instead spend it on other places like Singapore, Thailand or Indonesia (Bali to be precise) which they think they know better.

 

Likewise for Malaysian food, it is far less popular than say Thai food in foreign countries. Take Malaysian food in Sydney, for example, many of my non-Malaysian friends are reluctant to try it. However, once they have tried it, they like it very much.

 

Rich multi-cultural identity indeed is a gift to Malaysia and I think Malaysia should preserve it. The challenge for Malaysia is how to promote it. The negative news and 'incidents' happening in Malaysia definitely wouldn't help foreigner's perception towards Malaysia.

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