RMAF wants more deadly Hornets

[adrianqcs 0]

KUALA LUMPUR: The Royal Malaysian Air Force aims to remain a deterrent force by having fifth generation fighters like the F/A-18E/F Super Hornets.

This will strengthen its capability in protecting the country’s maritime assets within the exclusive economic zone, including the vital oil and gas assets in the Spratly Islands and the Ambalat oil block off Borneo.

 

RMAF chief Gen Datuk Seri Azizan Ariffin said, budget willing, the procurement of such multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA) could be done under the 10th Malaysia Plan (2010-2015).

 

"Failing which, we may increase the acquistion of MRCA like the Sukhoi Su-30MKM, 18 of which have already been procured," he said.

 

"The first two of the 18 Su-30MKM were handed over to the RMAF last week, while the remaining 16 will be delivered by the year’s end, in time for the Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace exhibition."

Azizan said the Sukhois, ordered in 2003 at a cost of RM3.42 billion, would be based with the 11th squadron in Gong Kedak, Kelantan.

 

"To date, four pilots, two weapons sensor specialists, four engineers and 53 technical crew have completed training for three months in Russia.

 

"A second batch of crew will be sent to either Russia or India soon," he said at Wisma Pertahanan in Jalan Padang Tembak, in conjunction with the RMAF’s 49th anniversary today.

 

Azizan said the RMAF was also looking at stealth technology in the near future, to enhance its electronic and non-conventional warfare capability, especially in combating terrorism.

 

The acquisition of more Sukhois or Hornets will, however, not affect the operations of the existing 18 MiG-29N fighters, he added.

 

"Although a decade old, the MiG-29Ns are still very useful and can serve up to 30 years with proper maintenance and refurbishment.

 

"Our ultimate aim is to refurbish and upgrade our combat aircraft every 10 years to remain as a deterrent force, and enhance our surveillance and reconnaissance capabilities."

 

He said the decision to acquire a mixture of western and eastern bloc fighters was not only to satisfy political aspirations, but took into consideration factors like versatility, transfer of technology, cost, operational effectiveness, availability of spares, logistics support, crew training, the environment and weather.

 

As part of the RMAF’s modernisation programme, it would procure four Airbus A400M, 18 Pilatus PC-7 Mk II, ten Aermacchi MB-339CM and five unmanned aerial vehicles.

 

"We are refurbishing five F-5E and two RF-5 for air tactical reconnaissance, while there is a need for airborne early-warning-and-control aeroplanes and combat search-and-rescue helicopters

 

"We are also looking at replacing nine of the BAE Systems Hawks that crashed so that we can continue operating with 28 jets," Azizan said.

 

Two of the A400M transport aeroplanes will be delivered in 2013 and another two a year later, while the MB-339s will be delivered from February 2009, and the UAVs from next year.

 

"The A400M will also double up as an air tanker, taking over the air-to-air refuelling of the long-range fighter jets from the KC-130 Hercules," he said.

 

On another note, Azizan said the RMAF spent nearly RM6 million last year to carry out humanitarian and relief missions in Solo and Yogyakarta in Indonesia, and Timor Leste.

 

"A large part of the defence budget is also spent annually on bilateral and multilateral exercises. This is in addition to the ‘Eyes in the Sky’ combined maritime air patrols over the Straits of Malacca."

 

Among the exercises involving the RMAF are the Cope Taufan and CARAT with the United States, Air Thamal with Thailand, Latgabma Elang Malindo with Indonesia, and the Bersama Shield, Bersama Lima, Bersama Padu and Suman Protector with Britain, Australia, New Zealand and Singapore under the Five-Power Defence Arrangement.

 

[Christopher Teoh 0]

Adrianqcs, thanks for the post.

 

It is incredible how adamant RMAF is in wanting a disparate fleet of aircraft. I agree in the Super Hornets and I will also agree in a second batch of MKM. Everything else should go. RMAF seems to want different aircrafts for every different itsy-bitsy mission. RMAF, the jack of all trade and a master of none.

[Pieter C. 5]

"We are also looking at replacing nine of the BAE Systems Hawks that crashed so that we can continue operating with 28 jets,"

 

[iwan 3]

looks like RMAF is suddenly getting serious in expanding our fleets..but 2010 is still a long way..hope they replace the hawks with a better plane..they mentioned aermacchi right?when they say 'replacing' it means replace or repair?

Edited June 3, 2007 by iwan

[Denny Yen 0]

I hope that RMAF's negotiating skills have improved since the F-18D arming codes fiasco as per Dr. Mahathir quote:

I want to tell you, we had wanted to buy Russian MiGs. You know Russians, they are very inferior. Somehow or other, it was wangled without my knowledge, that part of the money only to be used to purchase MiGs was also used to buy American made F-18 planes.

 

The very good American aircraft costs twice as much as the MiGs. And then, we acquired eight F-18s and 18 MiGs. MiGs are sold to us without any condition. If we feel like bombing Singapore, for example, the Russians are not going to object. Any Singaporeans here? Or ex-Singaporeans?

 

But this great aircraft called F-18 which we bought from America, after buying it, after several months, I got to know that these aircraft cannot be used for any attacks against any country even if it is not Singapore, because the Americans sold the aircraft, but the source code is kept by them.

 

So you cannot plan anything, you cannot fly them to carry out any bombing attacks against anybody but you have this wonderful aircraft, which you can see at Lima. So, we spent this huge sum of money and they actually negotiated and agreed to these terms.

 

So that's why I say we are not very good at negotiating.

http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/50965

Edited June 3, 2007 by Denny Yen

[KK Lee 5]

 

Doubt either American or Russian will release their source code to any foreign buyer.

 

What the oldman means is the operating parameter. Believe RMAF F-18 is programmed for anti-ship and air defence mission but ground attack function is limited. RMAF F-18 can carry general purpose bomb (unguided, dumb) but the weapon system software is not loaded for laser guided bomb (smart).

 

As Malaysia is no longer in tier-2 allies of the USA; whether US will upload additional code to RMAF F-18 is depending who is the enemy that RMAF is fighting.

 

[iwan 3]

Doubt either American or Russian will release their source code to any foreign buyer.

 

What the oldman means is the operating parameter. Believe RMAF F-18 is programmed for anti-ship and air defence mission but ground attack function is limited. RMAF F-18 can carry general purpose bomb (unguided, dumb) but the weapon system software is not loaded for laser guided bomb (smart).

 

As Malaysia is no longer in tier-2 allies of the USA; whether US will upload additional code to RMAF F-18 is depending who is the enemy that RMAF is fighting.

 

 

but that means we paid for sumthing we couldnt actually use to its maximum potential right?it amazes me how they managed to 'wangle' without Dr Ms' knowledge..

[KK Lee 5]

but that means we paid for sumthing we couldnt actually use to its maximum potential right?it amazes me how they managed to 'wangle' without Dr Ms' knowledge..

 

It is common that; when telco purchase a system (eg GSM exchange) from company like Ericsson, Alcatel, Nokia or Siemen, not all the features in the system is available for use by the telco. To use ‘additional’ feature, telco will need to pay extra to turn on the feature.

 

Likewise, don’t think we can blame Lockheed/Boeing but the negotiation team from MinDef and RMAF. Because, MinDef/RMAF agreed to the operation envelope.

 

[Denny Yen 0]

Doubt either American or Russian will release their source code to any foreign buyer.

Negative, we just need the arming codes, which allow the pilot to fire a live weapon. Taiwanese (ROCAF) F-16s carry the full compliment of weapons just like ROKAF or Greek AF. Taiwanese F-16s carry AGM-45 Shrike, AGM-84 Harpoon, AGM-65B Maverick, AGM-88 HARM, and were spotted with LANTIRN pod.

 

At the annual Hang Kuang military exercise, you can see these F-16s perform live firing on flying drones, marine targets and de-commissioned navy ships. These were broadcasted on local cable news TV.

Edited June 3, 2007 by Denny Yen

[KK Lee 5]

Negative, we just need the arming codes, which allow the pilot to fire a live weapon. Taiwanese (ROCAF) F-16s carry the full compliment of weapons just like ROKAF or Greek AF. Taiwanese F-16s carry AGM-45 Shrike, AGM-84 Harpoon, AGM-65B Maverick, AGM-88 HARM, and were spotted with LANTIRN pod.

 

Software source code and arming code is two different things.

 

That’s no doubt RMAF F-18 can fire a variety of live weapons. Otherwise, they are only good for air display.

 

USAF/USN F-18 is nuclear capable and we can’t expect US to permit RMAF F-18 can be nuclear armed. Neither RMAF Su-30 or Mig-29 can carry nuclear armed AoA missile, although Russian version can.

 

Despite what the politician complained about restricted capability. F-18 is still the RMAF preferred fighter.

 

Mig-29 and Su-30 was forced upon RMAF by the minister of defence.

 

 

Edited June 3, 2007 by KK Lee

[Denny Yen 0]

Software source code and arming code is two different things.

 

That’s no doubt RMAF F-18 can fire a variety of live weapons.

 

Precisely what I was saying about arming vs source codes.

 

I'm not confident enough to say if RMAF F-18D ever made any "live" missile firing. Based on the photos taken by spotters, you can see that they're carrying "dud" missiles...for e.g., when you enlarge their AIM-7E Sparrows, you will see the words "Airborne Inert Missile Simulator" appears on it and they is no exhaust outlet.

 

However, I'm confident to say that ROCAF's F-16s did exactly that each year during the Hang Kuang exercise which they show on TV. This pic was taken during the '01 exercise when 6630 from 22nd TFS/455th TFW fired the AGM-65B Maverick.

 

 

 

[iwan 3]

Software source code and arming code is two different things.

 

That’s no doubt RMAF F-18 can fire a variety of live weapons. Otherwise, they are only good for air display.

 

USAF/USN F-18 is nuclear capable and we can’t expect US to permit RMAF F-18 can be nuclear armed. Neither RMAF Su-30 or Mig-29 can carry nuclear armed AoA missile, although Russian version can.

 

Despite what the politician complained about restricted capability. F-18 is still the RMAF preferred fighter.

 

Mig-29 and Su-30 was forced upon RMAF by the minister of defence.

 

forced upon?sounds interesting..can elaborate?

btw...how often do we see RMAF firing live missiles?have they done that with the migs?i studied in kulim for a year which is quite near to the butterworth airbase..and all i saw was migs flying around ronda ronda every one or two days...can anyone enlighten me if they have been such exercises(live missiles) conducted by RMAF?

 

about the f18 being the preffered fighter...i cant help but feel that the MKMs will slowly take over...

[Christopher Teoh 0]

Not the arming code but the Threat warning Code.

 

RMAF, if I'm not mistaken, did a Harpoon, Maverick firing exercise. The Hornets are fully capable of combat operations 24/7. Malaysia do not need uncle sams head nod everytime we want to fire something.

 

Someone posted a link a year back or so on another forum that included a video of RMAF Hornets firing AGM-65s and CRV-7. I am going to look for that link again or try to find the wherebouts of it.

 

 

iwan,

 

Let both the MKM and Super Bug take over...rid of everything else.

Edited June 3, 2007 by Christopher Teoh

[Fitri Shukri 0]

"Failing which, we may increase the acquistion of MRCA like the Sukhoi Su-30MKM, 18 of which have already been procured," he said.

 

Wow, this RMAF General is delivering his message to the US.

 

US Congress have already agreed in principled allowed the FA18E/F sale to Malaysia, but this time Malaysia won't buy unless the package comes with full weapons and software suite including the AMRAAM and newest Sidewinder-X missiles with helmet mounted targetting and AESA radars. Interestingly, Singapore will get the F15SG with AMRAAM and although no AESA radars yet, they can easily convert to AESA when the need arises.

 

I've been following the RMAF's arms purchase statements, and everytime they say something related, they never fail to mention their interests in the FA18E/F, despite being armed with the MiG29Ns and recently the Su30MKM. Its gives us a hint as to who really decided on the MiGs and Sukhois purchases, Ministry/Minister of Defence or RMAF themselves.

 

Another thing the RMAF have mentioned but never purchased by the government, is the need for AEWC aircrafts.

 

As for the F5E/F, yes, they have been flying again over the skies of Butterworth.

[Denny Yen 0]

For a missile to work, you need at least 3 sets of software codes...you need all three for a missile to be considered as "armed."

 

For e.g., in AIM-120 AMRAAM you need a set of code each to:

Detect - this code will tell the missile which type of radar signature to look for.

Track & guidance - based on what has been detected, this code will guide the missile towards the target by giving commands to its rocket motor.

Arming - this code will activate its arming fuse, i.e., making the warhead live.

[Denny Yen 0]

Another thing the RMAF have mentioned but never purchased by the government, is the need for AEWC aircrafts.

In an age when other nation's armed forces are creating an integrated air defense system, I doubt RMAF's acquisition of a handful squadrons of SU-30, MIG-29 or F-18 would be enough.

 

As shown below, MINDEF/RMAF's shopping list should have been longer....what about AEW, AWACs, air-to-air refueling, ground intercept radars, anti-aircraft missiles, etc?

[Fitri Shukri 0]

In an age when other nation's armed forces are creating an integrated air defense system, I doubt RMAF's acquisition of a handful squadrons of SU-30, MIG-29 or F-18 would be enough.

 

As shown below, MINDEF/RMAF's shopping list should have been longer....what about AEW, AWACs, air-to-air refueling, ground intercept radars, anti-aircraft missiles, etc?

 

I think the RMAF do know what they really need to have to be the most modern and effective air force in th eregion. They have highly trained officers who are knowledgeable and exposed to the latest requirements of modern day air force. But the RMAF can only inform to the government of their needs, it is the government that really sign the paychecks.

 

The question is, is the Ministry/Minister of Defence really listening to the RMAF for that matter? Who actually dictate arms and weapons purchase in Malaysia, the Armed Forces (Army, RMAF & RMN) or the civilian advisors/consultants of the Ministry/Minister of Defence (whom one is at least is in jail now due to a certain Mongolian model murder case)

[KK Lee 5]

Search and track is basically aircraft’s radar functions. There are many versions and options for the radar software e.g. sensitivity, basic counter-measure, power output, etc.

 

The weapon system is the interface between weapons and aircraft. Data is uploaded for each weapon carried, the weapon system will then draw data from navigation system, radar, etc, compute and give ‘green light’ when the selected weapon is within operation parameters or envelop.

 

Normally, weapon system software update/option comes with the hardware e.g. laser guided bomb, AIM-120, etc so that the aircraft can armed these weapons. Unless RMAF is permitted to purchase new weapons, it is ignorant to expect USAF to give RMAF the latest and full range of weapons data; especially, the current government’s foreign policy is inclining toward Cuba, Iran, Venezuela and Sudan.

 

Malaysian armed forces is modelled after British, uniform don’t have control of finance. Hence, RMAF have to take whatever is given by the MinDef.

 

Edited June 4, 2007 by KK Lee

[iwan 3]

air-to-air refuelling has been done using the 'hercules' right?

 

erm..off topic for awhile..im confused by the mig 31 operated by russia..it does have a powerful radar which some people say can detect stealth,but why isnt it installed in other planes such as the mig29,su30 etc.?and is the su 31 capable of doing what the AWACS are for the US(AEW)?

[Fitri Shukri 0]

air-to-air refuelling has been done using the 'hercules' right?

 

erm..off topic for awhile..im confused by the mig 31 operated by russia..it does have a powerful radar which some people say can detect stealth,but why isnt it installed in other planes such as the mig29,su30 etc.?and is the su 31 capable of doing what the AWACS are for the US(AEW)?

 

Currently RMAF have 2 C130 for inflight refueling. The 4 Airbus400M that Malaysia ordered will automatically have in-flight refueling capabilities, not to mention a higher and faster flight performance.

 

The MiG31 radar is BIG, cannot put into MiG29 or Su30. Not sure about its capabilities though.

[Denny Yen 0]

Later versions of AIM variants have active radar.

 

For e.g., AIM-120 (which is carried in F-18Ds for e.g.) is an active radar inertial reference missile, i.e., “fire-and-forget” type. Its tracking & guidance systems are comprised of active X-band radar seeker/transmitter, antenna, autopilot/navigator and active data-linking.

 

Once a target is selected and the missile is fired, it is capable of tracking the target with its own radar.

 

Although the launch aircraft’s will illuminate the target initially, or active data-linking allows the missile to receive updated information. In most cases, the active radar does not require the launch aircraft to continue illuminating the target or tracking the target. Thus allowing the pilot to concentrate on other tasks of the mission.