Jump to content


Icon Important Announcement!


New registrations require administration validation. This may delay registration approvals.
Reach out to us on our Facebook Page for faster approvals


Photo

Firefly freezes capacity growth as demand slows


  • Please log in to reply
50 replies to this topic

#21 BC Tam

BC Tam
  • Platinum Member
  • 7,410 posts

Posted 01 November 2016 - 06:42 PM

So with hindsight now, why the unholy haste to order the -600s as replacements so soon after the -500s entered service ?

Lack of foresight ?  At the very least of due diligence ?

Considering how long the F27s soldiered on before being relieved by the F50s, and that in turn was worked to exhaustion prior to arrival of the ATR72-500s, a few eyebrows would have been raised I suspect



#22 JuliusWong

JuliusWong
  • Platinum Member
  • 2,883 posts

Posted 01 November 2016 - 07:53 PM

So with hindsight now, why the unholy haste to order the -600s as replacements so soon after the -500s entered service ?

Lack of foresight ?  At the very least of due diligence ?

Considering how long the F27s soldiered on before being relieved by the F50s, and that in turn was worked to exhaustion prior to arrival of the ATR72-500s, a few eyebrows would have been raised I suspect

True, they did't evaluate the metrics thoroughly to say at least. It has larger overhead bins, glass cockpit and more comfortable seating that's all. But the performance metric isn't very much different with -500. The ATR 72-600 order was placed during Ahmad Jauhari's tenure and was used to replace the "ageing" ATR 72-500 and for further expansion in both FY and MASwings. Finance through special purpose vehicles...whatever that means.

 

Read more here: http://www.thestar.c...y-and-maswings/



#23 jahur

jahur
  • Gold Member
  • 937 posts

Posted 02 November 2016 - 04:49 PM

So with hindsight now, why the unholy haste to order the -600s as replacements so soon after the -500s entered service ?

Lack of foresight ?  At the very least of due diligence ?

Considering how long the F27s soldiered on before being relieved by the F50s, and that in turn was worked to exhaustion prior to arrival of the ATR72-500s, a few eyebrows would have been raised I suspect

Firefly did not expect Malindo to enter aggressively and drop fares sky high. Malindo is also not doing well in its ATR services as there are plans to spinoff part of the operation elsewhere is also in the table. The ATR72-600 also has parts issues which can only be at the moment, sourced from ATR itself which causes significant delay in an event an aircraft has gone tech and in need of parts replacement. Cost for parts are also much higher than the 500 series.

 

Maswings received the 600 series as the glass cockpit and increased capability allows Maswings to fly into Sabah Sarawak terrain+weather infested airports during the night efficiently. Cost and sustainable passenger load factor was not on their side though. Backlash from state gov also as the fleet type was not approved for subsidization as contract was only for the 10 atr72-500.

 

Another note, the atr is not a very good aircraft when compared to fokker 50, While It has the best fuel burn and operating cost, performance wise it sucks over the pricey Q400. The ATR's Non sturdy landing gear that is attached to the fuselage has made it a not so nice aircraft to experience during landing and is common for the aircraft to sink on either left or right throughout the landing roll if either of the gear touches first with some crosswinds. Plane also not good at Bad weather penetration compared to fokker 50 as noted from past pilots who operate the aircraft. The main Landing gear door always detached itself while its slow to get parts to get it fixed, aircrafts with this missing landing gear door have to fly below the usual cruise speed significantly to prevent vibration. Aircraft's engine is also very underpowered to perform a quick go-arounds as it is the same engine from the ATR42.


Edited by jahur, 02 November 2016 - 04:50 PM.


#24 KK Lee

KK Lee
  • Platinum Member
  • 5,201 posts

Posted 02 November 2016 - 05:48 PM

Firefly did not expect Malindo to enter aggressively and drop fares sky high. Malindo is also not doing well in its ATR services as there are plans to spinoff part of the operation elsewhere is also in the table. The ATR72-600 also has parts issues which can only be at the moment, sourced from ATR itself which causes significant delay in an event an aircraft has gone tech and in need of parts replacement. Cost for parts are also much higher than the 500 series.

 

Maswings received the 600 series as the glass cockpit and increased capability allows Maswings to fly into Sabah Sarawak terrain+weather infested airports during the night efficiently. Cost and sustainable passenger load factor was not on their side though. Backlash from state gov also as the fleet type was not approved for subsidization as contract was only for the 10 atr72-500.

 

Another note, the atr is not a very good aircraft when compared to fokker 50, While It has the best fuel burn and operating cost, performance wise it sucks over the pricey Q400. The ATR's Non sturdy landing gear that is attached to the fuselage has made it a not so nice aircraft to experience during landing and is common for the aircraft to sink on either left or right throughout the landing roll if either of the gear touches first with some crosswinds. Plane also not good at Bad weather penetration compared to fokker 50 as noted from past pilots who operate the aircraft. The main Landing gear door always detached itself while its slow to get parts to get it fixed, aircrafts with this missing landing gear door have to fly below the usual cruise speed significantly to prevent vibration. Aircraft's engine is also very underpowered to perform a quick go-arounds as it is the same engine from the ATR42.

 

Did 600 series inherited the above issue from 500 series?



#25 jahur

jahur
  • Gold Member
  • 937 posts

Posted 02 November 2016 - 07:03 PM

 
Did 600 series inherited the above issue from 500 series?

Yes most of it. The missing landing gear door is the most famous just head out to szb and see those with doors missing on both malindo and firefly. Some of the ex defunct maswings atr72-600 had their door transferred to fy

Edited by jahur, 02 November 2016 - 07:07 PM.


#26 Mohd Firdaus Bolong

Mohd Firdaus Bolong
  • Silver Member
  • 389 posts

Posted 02 November 2016 - 07:22 PM

My my... what's next then? I wonder what is the best aircraft type that suits FY and MAswings portfolios.

#27 JuliusWong

JuliusWong
  • Platinum Member
  • 2,883 posts

Posted 02 November 2016 - 10:00 PM

Most of us would agree that back then MAS had not much options for F-50 replacement apart from Bombardier Q400. Q400 is cost prohibitive to acquire and consume more fuel despite being faster. Caught in between a rock and a hard place, MAS needed a replacement fast as F-50 parts were getting difficult to acquire and fuel price was a concern. As to why they placed ATR 72-600 order when most ATR 72-500 are still relatively young is a million dollar question. 



#28 flee

flee
  • Platinum Member
  • 11,537 posts

Posted 13 November 2016 - 10:22 AM

As to why they placed ATR 72-600 order when most ATR 72-500 are still relatively young is a million dollar question. 

The orders were placed at a time when FY was doing well and MASWings had some airy fairy plans to overcome talk by the Sabah and Sarawak state govts. wanting to start their own airlines. It was also before Malindo began their ATR ops in SZB.



#29 flee

flee
  • Platinum Member
  • 11,537 posts

Posted 13 November 2016 - 10:52 AM

I wonder what they are planning to do with the stored fleet - sell them or lease them to third parties?

 

9M-FIA

30911108926_691676e40d_c.jpg

 

9M-FIB

30830541392_680ef77c2b_c.jpg

 

9M-FIC

30645368870_834d5777fd_c.jpg

 

9M-FID

30645359700_12eb4ec8bf_c.jpg

 

9M-FIE

22768356668_78b55c8dda_c.jpg

 

9M-FIF

30830449552_c903b41507_c.jpg

 

9M-FIG

30830443332_2dc0fa1b8b_c.jpg

 

9M-FIH

30830426452_e43f0692fe_c.jpg



#30 KK Lee

KK Lee
  • Platinum Member
  • 5,201 posts

Posted 13 November 2016 - 11:05 AM

I wonder what they are planning to do with the stored fleet - sell them or lease them to third parties?

Some sold, some cannibalized for parts and waiting for buyer.

Fy is supposed to be high yield and low opex. Guess the old disease of leakages has reoccurred. Euthanasia or amputation may be is the realistic solution.

Edited by KK Lee, 13 November 2016 - 11:25 AM.


#31 Mohd Firdaus Bolong

Mohd Firdaus Bolong
  • Silver Member
  • 389 posts

Posted 13 November 2016 - 12:29 PM

Are those the new at72-600s? Guess they overestimated the growth of the airline when they ordered those new fleet. But better store and sell rather then working over underutilised aircrafts. Malindo is a bit aggressive though. Sell to Malindo perhaps? Or to any new startups who dare to dream..

#32 Vicknesh PS

Vicknesh PS
  • Members
  • 216 posts

Posted 13 November 2016 - 05:11 PM

Wow, Flee has the whole collection of -600s. Great shots!

#33 Cire

Cire
  • Platinum Member
  • 1,003 posts

Posted 15 November 2016 - 10:30 AM

Operational cost have crept up with the airline coupled with fierce competition from Malindo air. 



#34 Lim Kar Yong

Lim Kar Yong
  • Members
  • 245 posts

Posted 09 January 2017 - 10:27 AM

Firefly has reduced their frequencies drastically - I just noticed it as I am making bookings for flights to Singapore and also Kota Bharu. For Singapore sector, there are now 7 flights a day - I remembered there were at least 10 flights a couple of years ago when i used to make day trips there. KBR sector, Firefly has 8 flights a day compared to Malindo's 13. 

 

Interestingly, I noticed that purchasing Firefly's flights to Singapore is cheaper on MAB's website on the codeshared flights. Any reason for this?

 

Are things not looking too good in Firefly?



#35 affendi osman

affendi osman
  • Platinum Member
  • 1,475 posts

Posted 09 January 2017 - 12:14 PM

Firefly has reduced their frequencies drastically - I just noticed it as I am making bookings for flights to Singapore and also Kota Bharu. For Singapore sector, there are now 7 flights a day - I remembered there were at least 10 flights a couple of years ago when i used to make day trips there. KBR sector, Firefly has 8 flights a day compared to Malindo's 13. 

 

Interestingly, I noticed that purchasing Firefly's flights to Singapore is cheaper on MAB's website on the codeshared flights. Any reason for this?

 

Are things not looking too good in Firefly?

 Before Malindo came in, things were just fine for Firefly. Just like Malaysia Airlines, prior to AirAsia debut into Malaysian Aviation business



#36 flee

flee
  • Platinum Member
  • 11,537 posts

Posted 09 January 2017 - 01:23 PM

Well MH is hurting again since Malindo decided to be a FSC and took over many of MH's code share partners. It would appear that MH's alliance with EK has more costs than benefits.



#37 Izanee

Izanee
  • Platinum Member
  • 1,628 posts

Posted 09 January 2017 - 01:47 PM

MH's alliance with EK has not really made much improvement for MH. It effectively took MH out of the competition in many routes - I expected EK to increase flight offerings to Malaysia but it seems like they have gone the other way! It has also soured MH's relationships with other airlines. Seems like a lose-lose situation for MH

#38 V Wong

V Wong
  • Gold Member
  • 841 posts

Posted 09 January 2017 - 02:09 PM

Firefly has reduced their frequencies drastically - I just noticed it as I am making bookings for flights to Singapore and also Kota Bharu. For Singapore sector, there are now 7 flights a day - I remembered there were at least 10 flights a couple of years ago when i used to make day trips there. KBR sector, Firefly has 8 flights a day compared to Malindo's 13. 

 

 

Ditto frequency of FY flights to JHB



#39 Craig

Craig
  • Gold Member
  • 581 posts

Posted 09 January 2017 - 02:20 PM

Well MH is hurting again since Malindo decided to be a FSC and took over many of MH's code share partners. It would appear that MH's alliance with EK has more costs than benefits.

 

AFAIK OD did not take over MH's code-share partner. Other airlines may have signed up with OD for SPA/interline in addition to or replaced MH. 

 

And I don't know why MH-EK partnership exists - literally. Except for ME/Africa, MH routing rules aren't valid on EK (I don't know if it's a regulation hurdle that has yet to be cleared tho). Ex-EU/East Coast US, it's usually BA/AA to LHR and then MH to KUL. West Coast US is usually CX/JL/KE/AA to HKG/TYO/ICN and then MH to KUL. There are a few EY via AUH options on MH fares to/from MENA too.



#40 Lim Kar Yong

Lim Kar Yong
  • Members
  • 245 posts

Posted 10 January 2017 - 12:44 AM

 Before Malindo came in, things were just fine for Firefly. Just like Malaysia Airlines, prior to AirAsia debut into Malaysian Aviation business

 

I understand this would be the case for SZB-KBR route, and also PEN route and others that Malindo flies to. But Firefly still has monopoly for SZB-SIN, and that also we see reduced frequencies. And I have also heard of frequent "retimed" flights from friends and colleagues. So looks like tough days ahead ?

 






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users