Future of the RMAF

[iwan 3]

hello..thought it wud be a good idea to start of a discussion on future acquisition of planes and hellis by the rmaf..

 

but the main reason for me to start this thread is because ive heard from a source that we are sending a number of our pilots for training in the US to operate the superhornets..this might indicate that we are indeed ready to purchase the superbugs from uncle sam..the thing that amazes me most is..after all the problems regarding the weapons of the F/A-18D,why go back to the US??after the deal involving the Sukhois,it seems like dealing with russia is alot easier in terms of sales of weapons,their u-have-the-money-we-sell-to -you policy,etc...god knows if the US could plant sumthing in the planes and make it unoperatable with the touch of a button..you never know...

 

just my 2 cents..

[Mohd Idham 0]

I also heard about this...what ever they offer to us, they just want their F/A-18D Hornet back...our 8 hornet....

[Fitri Shukri 0]

hello..thought it wud be a good idea to start of a discussion on future acquisition of planes and hellis by the rmaf..

 

but the main reason for me to start this thread is because ive heard from a source that we are sending a number of our pilots for training in the US to operate the superhornets..this might indicate that we are indeed ready to purchase the superbugs from uncle sam..the thing that amazes me most is..after all the problems regarding the weapons of the F/A-18D,why go back to the US??after the deal involving the Sukhois,it seems like dealing with russia is alot easier in terms of sales of weapons,their u-have-the-money-we-sell-to -you policy,etc...god knows if the US could plant sumthing in the planes and make it unoperatable with the touch of a button..you never know...

 

just my 2 cents..

 

Training doesn't neccessarily translate to purchasing. And purchasing doesn't neccessarily translate to full operational capability.

 

 

[Izanee 0]

we need about five superhornets.

 

they would be fitted with extra fuel tanks painted to look like AGM-65s and then used to perform merdeka fly past once a year.

 

also to buzz pulau batu puteh should we lose it to the singaporeans.

Edited November 22, 2007 by Izanee

[iwan 3]

I also heard about this...what ever they offer to us, they just want their F/A-18D Hornet back...our 8 hornet....

why is that??dun tell me they regret selling the hornets to us and offer superhornets instead?that wud be weird..but ive got to say we do have a bunch of good looking hornets..

 

Training doesn't neccessarily translate to purchasing. And purchasing doesn't neccessarily translate to full operational capability.

from what ive heard,the training would take 2 years and wouldnt it be a waste to train pilots to operate a plane they will never fly?about the full operational capabilities..u are referring to the BVR capabilities right?

 

and about buzzing pulau batu puteh..can the hornets fire anything in the first place??superhornets during merdeka parades sounds cool thou..would be heaven for spotters..

 

 

[Azmir I. 1]

The project to replace the F/A18D with F/A18F was first offered by the USMC.Since the production line for the F/A18D is closed,they (USMC) wanted our Hornets to replace some of theirs due to high op tempo.Infact the RMAF was planning to buy another 8 F/A18ds but the financial crisis came,and those plans were put in the backburner.Now the subject has came again,maybe it would bear fruit,maybe even linked to a second space adventure for our intrepid angkasawan.All this also is subject to the political will of the country,anyway to be off topic,our neighbour down south has just ordered another 12 F15SG to add to the earlier 12 ordered F15SG.Looks like they are finally phasing out their A4SU.

[Mohd Idham 0]

we need the IKE....

[Imran K. 0]

just pray RMAF dont start looking at the PAF Karakorum...

[iwan 3]

just pray RMAF dont start looking at the PAF Karakorum...

 

well who knows..the suryakiran team did a decent show during LIMA in their kirans..maybe they will get those..

[Sandeep G 1]

They've just ordered another 10 Pilatus PC7-MKII trainers for RM213 Million. (Source: Thestar.com.my)

 

 

[Fitri Shukri 0]

They've just ordered another 10 Pilatus PC7-MKII trainers for RM213 Million. (Source: Thestar.com.my)

 

Replace crashed PC-7

[Azmir I. 1]

Replace crashed PC-7

The PC-7 MkII is planned to replaced the current PC-7 MkI.Have flown both the PC-7 MkI and MkII with about 500 hrs on the MkI alone.The PC-7MkI powerplant is rated at 550 SHP as compared to the PC-7 MkII which is rated at 750 SHP.It bridges the gap between the PC-7 MkI and PC-9,comes with martin Baker lightweight zero-zero ejection seats and has EFIS as well as HUD in the cockpit.The engine is mounted in such a way as to negate the enormous torque effect associated with a single turboprop engine.IMO its an excellant replacement for the PC-7 MkI and a good LIFT for budding fastjet pilots prior to the jet transition phase.Our neighbour down south have purchased the highly capable and better performance PC-21 which can fly at jet like speeds and handling.

"sentiasa diangkasa raya", "per adua ad astra"

[iwan 3]

quoted from the star online

The new model has ejection seats, a glass cockpit and centralised communication display unit unlike the earlier one.

 

Defence Ministry deputy secretary (procurement division) Roslend Mansor said the aircraft had improved features to meet the growing demands in the RMAF’s training programme.

 

“At present, we have 30 units of the Swiss-made PC-7 MKI and eight units of the older version of the PC-7 MKII.

 

“We will soon upgrade our existing aircraft to meet the avionics systems of the new aircraft,” he said yesterday.

 

does this mean they will upgrade the MiGs to a glass cockpit configuration?possible right?id hate to see the MiGs go into storage..

[Fitri Shukri 0]

quoted from the star online

does this mean they will upgrade the MiGs to a glass cockpit configuration?possible right?id hate to see the MiGs go into storage..

 

I thought they're selling the MiGs to Myanmar in 2010?

[Andrew Lim 1]

Definitely no future. I wouldn't even call RMAF an air force.. it's more like a nice collection of modern warplanes.

 

Whoever is in charge of the buying process is obviously just going after whatever is the most popular (SU-30MKM) or just copying someone other country's procurement pattern (RAAF F/A-18D).

 

If you look closely, our immediate neighbours are attempting to strike a balance between quantity and quality. RMAF has only quality (I hope, with the price that we're paying). In the event of an air war, RMAF's expensive jets will easily be outnumbered by our neighbours'.

 

What's the use of being able to pull off impressive braking action in mid-air? Looks nice duing airshows lah, but in real combat, the SU-30MKM will end up as a sweet $50 million sitting duck for someone to shoot at! You force the other plane to overshoot by making him fly too fast, NOT by reducing your own speed to 35 knots!

 

Any fighter pilot knows that speed is life. Lose speed, lose the fight.

 

 

Also, Malaysia has a vast expanse of forested and built up areas. Do the Air Force generals expect these fast moving planes to be able to find and kill enemies hidden under a tree canopy or in a building?

 

The current procurement policy of the RMAF undoubtedly shows that its battle doctrine is either flawed or, more possibly, non-existent.

 

They will not the slightest idea of what to purchase until they can clearly identify what and where the threats are and how to counter them...

Edited December 7, 2007 by Andrew Lim

[Christopher Teoh 0]

RMAF fleet plan may be disjointed, with a bit of everything. However, the choice of aircraft class is fundamentaly sound - long range, twin engine with overwater capability. Thailand or Singapore does not have a vast presence of water to cover unlike Malaysia.

 

There's always debate on single-engine light weight fighter versus twin-engine heavier fighter.

 

For Malaysia, the pros and cons of single-engine versus twin-engines:

 

Single-Engine

Pros

 

1) Quick turn-around during war time

2) Better geared for sustained attrition warfare

3) Cheaper purchasing cost

 

Cons

 

1) Lacks capability for over water operations (war & peace)

2) Generaly lacks 'first-punch' capability during war

3) Higher operating cost during peace time - as Malaysia will require greater force multiplier (tankers etc) to keep the less capable aircraft longer legged or have its effectiveness envelope expanded

 

 

Twin-Engine

Pros

 

1) Generally cheaper peace time direct operating cost

2) Twin engine safety for overwater flight

3) Genuine first-strike capability

 

Cons

 

1) Twin-engines aircraft generally becomes less combat capable in the long run during attrition war. Face it, twin-engine always raises the statistical chance of engine failure. You may have two but all it takes is to have one engine dead to scrub a mission

2) More complex and more labour intensive during war

3) More expensive to buy

 

 

Yours to pick but as for me I think Malaysia is on the right step - in terms of aircraft class. However said, RMAF ought to sell off those MiGs and trade-off those 'Bugs' for 'Super Bugs'. Should concentrate on Super Bugs and Flankers, atleast two FULL squadron for each type.

 

 

Cheers

 

[Izanee 0]

RMAF needs some AEW aircraft....like the Hawkeye used by RSAF

[Kader 0]

RSAF?

[Alan B. 5]

RSAF?

 

Republic of Singapore Air Force

[Andrew Lim 1]

Yes, Izanee.

 

They need both an AEW and maritime patrol aircraft (such as the P-3 Orion).

[KK Lee 5]

 

 

If Asean live to its spirits, the chance for Malaysia to engage in a conflict in the next 10 or 20 years is very slim.

 

Defence procurement cost lot of money to operate and maintain. It is more productive and efficiency to relocate the resources for the people needs i.e. free highway, lower tax, better education, better public transport, cheaper house, cheaper cost of living, etc.

 

From the past records, MinDef tend to brush aside RMAF, RMN and TDDM recommendation on big ticket items and will purchase those that paid out the most ‘consultancy fees’ and the current favourite is Russian.

 

 

[Philip 1]

RMAF fleet plan may be disjointed, with a bit of everything. However, the choice of aircraft class is fundamentaly sound - long range, twin engine with overwater capability. Thailand or Singapore does not have a vast presence of water to cover unlike Malaysia.

 

There's always debate on single-engine light weight fighter versus twin-engine heavier fighter.

 

For Malaysia, the pros and cons of single-engine versus twin-engines:

 

Single-Engine

Pros

 

1) Quick turn-around during war time

2) Better geared for sustained attrition warfare

3) Cheaper purchasing cost

 

Cons

 

1) Lacks capability for over water operations (war & peace)

2) Generaly lacks 'first-punch' capability during war

3) Higher operating cost during peace time - as Malaysia will require greater force multiplier (tankers etc) to keep the less capable aircraft longer legged or have its effectiveness envelope expanded

Twin-Engine

Pros

 

1) Generally cheaper peace time direct operating cost

2) Twin engine safety for overwater flight

3) Genuine first-strike capability

 

Cons

 

1) Twin-engines aircraft generally becomes less combat capable in the long run during attrition war. Face it, twin-engine always raises the statistical chance of engine failure. You may have two but all it takes is to have one engine dead to scrub a mission

2) More complex and more labour intensive during war

3) More expensive to buy

Yours to pick but as for me I think Malaysia is on the right step - in terms of aircraft class. However said, RMAF ought to sell off those MiGs and trade-off those 'Bugs' for 'Super Bugs'. Should concentrate on Super Bugs and Flankers, atleast two FULL squadron for each type.

Cheers

 

A very nice, in-depth discussion and analysis of the situation. However, if you showed this to our esteemed deputy prime minister aka "defense minister" , he wouldn't understand a word of it.

 

I bet the only thoughts that pass through these corrupt crooks' minds when they make procurement decisions such as these are "how much can me and my cronies make from this deal?"

[Hans 0]

hi Guys,

 

interesting discussion. as a foreigner, i see TUDM as a very fragmented force, with lots of different aircraft types and small numbers of each type. This I find a bit strange, as buying and maintaining a small selection of aircraft is of course much cheaper.

I think phasing out the F-18D and MIG29 and replace it with more SU-30's or the F-18F would be a good choice. Two tier fighter selection works fine and is much cheaper to run.

 

Anyway, as a spotter, the variety is fantastic in Malaysia so i'd much rather have it that way

 

take care,

Hans.

[Azmir I. 1]

hi Guys,

 

interesting discussion. as a foreigner, i see TUDM as a very fragmented force, with lots of different aircraft types and small numbers of each type. This I find a bit strange, as buying and maintaining a small selection of aircraft is of course much cheaper.

I think phasing out the F-18D and MIG29 and replace it with more SU-30's or the F-18F would be a good choice. Two tier fighter selection works fine and is much cheaper to run.

 

Anyway, as a spotter, the variety is fantastic in Malaysia so i'd much rather have it that way

 

take care,

Hans.

A very valid point you have there my friend,but the RMAF is not privy as to what it can have and what it wants as opposed to what the political masters have in mind.

[Christopher Teoh 0]

hi Guys,

 

interesting discussion. as a foreigner, i see TUDM as a very fragmented force, with lots of different aircraft types and small numbers of each type. This I find a bit strange, as buying and maintaining a small selection of aircraft is of course much cheaper.

I think phasing out the F-18D and MIG29 and replace it with more SU-30's or the F-18F would be a good choice. Two tier fighter selection works fine and is much cheaper to run.

 

Anyway, as a spotter, the variety is fantastic in Malaysia so i'd much rather have it that way

 

take care,

Hans.

 

Yes indeed the RMAF is a fragmented force. The only thing Malaysian government is consistent about is for NOT placing follow-on orders. I'm crossing my fingers that in the near future Malaysia will get realistic and swap the Hornets for the Super Bug and either go for more Super or Su-30MKM to meet the requirement for a second MRCA squadron.

 

In the mean time I am prepared to jump out of my window just in case Malaysia pulls a 'Malaysian' stunt by ordering something as obscene as the Rafale or Typhoon for the second MRCA squadron.

 

 

Cheers