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Cathay Pacific Quits Kuala Lumpur; Cathay Dragon (Dragonair) to Take Over from March 2017


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#41 JuliusWong

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 03:19 PM

Insider info, sidetrack: Thai Airways will shift all short and regional route to Thai Smile. Thai Airways will focus on medium to long haul routes. In plan now, more details to come...



#42 Isaac

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 04:02 PM

If that's the case then BKK would be handed over to KA as well, since HKT and CNX are already served by them.

  
CX has a far larger operation at BKK compared to KUL. It is unlikely they will hand over the route to KA anytime soon.


Japanese airlines should jump on this and steal all transpacific pax ex-KUL from the CX group

 
Lol why ? What is so wrong with Dragonair ? Why is almost everyone here views KA as the inferior carrier in Cathay Pacific Group ?


Therefore, from a lower cost base of KA, and retaining the same pax, they will make money.

  
zeke, the CX senior pilot who is a regular at A.net pointed out many times already that KA having a lower cost base is a myth. Depending on the operating route, KA cost of operation at PEK and PVG is higher than CX.
 

Personally, from outside looking in, this is still an incredibly bad decision and I wouldn't discount them reversing it in the near future.

  
Doubt so. Very likely it will be business as usual at the Cathay Pacific Group. Some predicted CX will takeover most flights to PEK and PVG from HKG after the KA takeover in 2006 because these two markets are viewed as premium market. But that never happened.


For Y class, the food quality n quantity for KA is way better than CX.

 
Exactly. Not to mention more patience and polite cabin crews on KA compared to CX too.


and let's just ignore that from the standpoint of CX, this move means lower cost and higher revenue for them since they don't have a direct competitor on the KUL-HKG sector...

No. Contrary to popular belief, KA operating cost isn't really lower than CX.

#43 jani

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 04:14 PM

Well if inferior product to CX, one must automatically assume lower cost than CX I guess but of course I (we all?) stand corrected.

 

Perhaps it is also a "rebranding" of KA to be more in line with CX in terms of service/product. The A330's will be the same anyway.



#44 Isaac

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 04:22 PM

Well if inferior product to CX, one must automatically assume lower cost than CX I guess but of course I (we all?) stand corrected.
 
Perhaps it is also a "rebranding" of KA to be more in line with CX in terms of service/product. The A330's will be the same anyway.

All of KA 19x A330-300 have the exact same seats you see on CX 2-class Regional A330-300. Everything is AVOD and the Business Class is the latest Recaro Business Class CX introduced about two years ago. KA A321-200 have the exact same Business and Economy Class seats too. Only the A320-200 seats in Y are different. Initially they were going to install the same Long-haul Y seats on the A320-200 with PTV and all but in the end they went for WiFi entertainment system.

By the way, zeke has pointed it again that payroll at KA isn't any lower than that of CX.

#45 Adam Lawrence

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 04:40 PM

 

I like how one poster summarises the whole issue on airliners.net:

 

"I fly HKG KUL twice a month and fares are usually cheaper than other routes. I'm usually in a ticket class that earns 10% mileage or something stupid like that, with tickets booked less than a week in advance typically. When fares rise, the agent switches to the excellent MH, who continue to fly empty flights to and from HK, typically filled with ultra low yield mainland tour groups. Inbound business typically uses Air Asia who have an excellent northbound schedule. 
 
The Malaysian economy is in the dumps thanks to an increasingly corrupt government who implemented GST at the same time as the fuel prices took a tumble. Unemployment is up, and underemployment, thanks to subsidies to a large part of the population, keeps rising too. I love Malaysia, but God it's so fustrating to work in these days."
 
:)

 

I really didnt get this. So if airlines reducing/terminating their flights to Malaysia, it is because of the corrupted govt. But then if airlines increasing/expanding their operations on this land, what would be the reason?? We got a clean govt?



#46 jani

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 04:52 PM

Insider info, sidetrack: Thai Airways will shift all short and regional route to Thai Smile. Thai Airways will focus on medium to long haul routes. In plan now, more details to come...

MH themselves might replicate this if they decide with Firefly Jet at klia2.

 

So in the end, short haul travel all over will drop in quality :)



#47 Suzanne Goh

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 04:58 PM

All of KA 19x A330-300 have the exact same seats you see on CX 2-class Regional A330-300. Everything is AVOD and the Business Class is the latest Recaro Business Class CX introduced about two years ago

 

Yes, you are right...  but the point some are trying to make with regards to inferior hard product is that on some flights, with careful selection, it is possible to get a 33E or 33K config with CX. That won't be possible with KA, unless as a matter of rotation they're planning to send the 3 class 33R with cirrus which they sell as F, and opening up those seats for pax as J. 



#48 Kee Hooi Yen

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 05:00 PM

I really didnt get this. So if airlines reducing/terminating their flights to Malaysia, it is because of the corrupted govt. But then if airlines increasing/expanding their operations on this land, what would be the reason?? We got a clean govt?

 

I think he only says it is frustrating to work in Malaysia these days because of the corrupted govt...... nothing to do with the airlines operations.



#49 Mohd Suhaimi Fariz

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 05:33 PM

I really didnt get this. So if airlines reducing/terminating their flights to Malaysia, it is because of the corrupted govt. But then if airlines increasing/expanding their operations on this land, what would be the reason?? We got a clean govt?


It's the drastic drop in oil prices that's weighing down on the economy. All the malarkey about corruption is just a sideshow.

In fact if it wasn't for GST we'd be worse off.

#50 flee

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 05:51 PM

Cathay Pacific to transfer Kuala Lumpur flights to Dragonair

 

https://www.business...ghts-dragonair/



#51 jani

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 07:02 PM


In fact if it wasn't for GST we'd be worse off.


Spot on

#52 Chris Tan

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 07:04 PM

 
Yes, you are right...  but the point some are trying to make with regards to inferior hard product is that on some flights, with careful selection, it is possible to get a 33E or 33K config with CX. That won't be possible with KA, unless as a matter of rotation they're planning to send the 3 class 33R with cirrus which they sell as F, and opening up those seats for pax as J. 

I don't see what's the fuss over the Cirrus J. The regional seat has everything you can possibly ask for, such as tray tables that fold out from the seat ahead, 30 degree recline, middle seats on the 777s jumbos, tiny magazine storage, and zero privacy between seats!

#53 KK Lee

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 07:13 PM

It's the drastic drop in oil prices that's weighing down on the economy. All the malarkey about corruption is just a sideshow.

In fact if it wasn't for GST we'd be worse off.


Without gst, at current petronas dividend payment, the gomen is almost certain need to borrow to pay for opex. The question is whether the gomen or taxpayers could spend these $ more efficiently and benefit the aggregate economy more.

#54 Walter Sim

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 07:20 PM

I don't see what's the fuss over the Cirrus J. The regional seat has everything you can possibly ask for, such as tray tables that fold out from the seat ahead, 30 degree recline, middle seats on the 777s jumbos, tiny magazine storage, and zero privacy between seats!


2-3-2 for J 😑😑

Edited by Walter Sim, 12 August 2016 - 07:22 PM.


#55 flee

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 08:11 PM

OT:

 

It's the drastic drop in oil prices that's weighing down on the economy. All the malarkey about corruption is just a sideshow.

In fact if it wasn't for GST we'd be worse off.

A country's economy can only tolerate a certain level of inefficiency (corruption). If that level goes too high, the economy will choke.

 

Our wonderful government asked the people to tighten their belts and eat kangkung instead of imported food. However, it did not practice what it preached - government spending kept getting inflated instead of being cut.

 

Also, the government did not manage oil revenues wisely the past few decades. Instead of investing in the future, it spent it on frivolous things. Now that oil prices have collapsed, it has nothing in reserve for the rainy days.

 

GST should be used for development, not just increased opex of the government. If the government is not going to exercise financial discipline, GST rates will need to increase. The people/taxpayers will suffer once more. Also do note that GST is a kind of double taxation - people spend their taxed income on taxed goods and services.


MH themselves might replicate this if they decide with Firefly Jet at klia2.

 

So in the end, short haul travel all over will drop in quality :)

Yes, MAG does need more tools to compete and an improved version of Firefly jet operating out of klia2/LCCT2 will be definitely something that will help it to compete better.

 

I don't think short haul travel has dropped in quality - we have some fantastic airlines serving our short haul routes at fares that are much lower than in the 1980s. Safety has not been compromised. More people can afford to fly. More people can travel between Peninsular Malaysia and East Malaysia. So, all in all, the travel industry has become bigger and better.



#56 Suzanne Goh

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 08:38 PM

I don't see what's the fuss over the Cirrus J. The regional seat has everything you can possibly ask for, such as tray tables that fold out from the seat ahead, 30 degree recline, middle seats on the 777s jumbos, tiny magazine storage, and zero privacy between seats!


My dream seat then. I take it back. Viva regional premium economy !

#57 Najib Ramli

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 09:50 PM

 

GST should be used for development, not just increased opex of the government. If the government is not going to exercise financial discipline, GST rates will need to increase. The people/taxpayers will suffer once more. Also do note that GST is a kind of double taxation - people spend their taxed income on taxed goods and services.


Yes, MAG does need more tools to compete and an improved version of Firefly jet operating out of klia2/LCCT2 will be definitely something that will help it to compete better.

 

I don't think short haul travel has dropped in quality - we have some fantastic airlines serving our short haul routes at fares that are much lower than in the 1980s. Safety has not been compromised. More people can afford to fly. More people can travel between Peninsular Malaysia and East Malaysia. So, all in all, the travel industry has become bigger and better.

 

OT:

 

agree that GST is kind of double taxation but it is a consumption based tax, thus in theory a fair kind of tax considering that there's so many "creative" way to understate your income to avoid/pay less income tax..

 

then again, considering the kind of fiscal regime where I am now where max tax rate =52%, VAT = 6%/21% (essential/non essential) and the fact that the money you saved for pension only buys you an annuity pension plan which is taxed and only get after 67, current tax regime in Malaysia is not too bad :)

 

 

My dream seat then. I take it back. Viva regional premium economy !

 

at least still flying first/business class :) ... i've to swap flying with train completely even for a 4hr+ journey these days :(



#58 JuliusWong

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 10:34 PM

Actually, we are yet to know which configuration KA will deploy to KUL, and which five A330 CX will transfer to KA. They are currently five different A330 configuration according to respective website:

 

CX:

33K: 0F, 39J, 21W, 191Y= 251

33E: 0F, 39J, 0W, 223Y= 262

33P: 0F, 24J, 0W, 293Y= 317 (With new regional J)

 

KA: 

33R: 8F, 42J, , 230Y= 280

33C: 0F, 42J, , 265Y= 307



#59 Waiping

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 10:58 PM

Is CX shifting their aircraft to other destination more lucrative than KUL?



#60 Mohd Azizul Ramli

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 11:15 PM

Per my spies in HKG, just a selection of excerp from the long chat:

 

KUL may be the first of several cities moving from CX to KA.

 

KUL's selection is due to all of CX's competitors on the route are essentially LCC or LCC-like (i.e. MH).

 

CX is very bottom line driven. Especially if KUL is bleeding. The lack of Chinese visitors for a while hasn't helped.

 

It is easier to use one carrier especially on staffing.

 

KA is in oneworld, whereas MI isn't in Star.

 

The yields are not that great and the traffic volume isn't anywhere as attractive as BKK or SIN. Compare the fares ex BKK and KUL and almost certainly ex BKK will be more expensive, which speaks volumes of the ex KUL yields.

 

To cut it very short: bottom line has been the focus of the management.






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