F22 production line in Marietta closing down?

[Andrew Lim 1]

The Pentagon is once again trying to shut down the Marietta production line of the F-22A Raptor and Georgia’s congressional delegation has once again launched a preemptive strike to save the plane. And this time they’re wielding the sword of truth.

 

 

14-12-2007 - Washington -- Top Pentagon officials may say they don’t need the Raptor to win wars, but Georgia lawmakers wrote to Defense Secretary Robert Gates to assure him that dumping the Raptor would endanger national security, encourage America’s enemies and cost 25,000 Americans, 3,000 in Marietta, their jobs.

 

Congressmen aren’t usually that up-front about their true concerns - jobs back in their districts - when it comes to saving weapons programs the military says it doesn’t need. Many weapons programs, in fact, are often designed to include contractors and sub-contractors from as many congressional districts as possible to ensure the program’s longevity.

 

In their letter to the defense secretary, the Georgians mostly talked weapon-system talk about “fifth-generation” fighter lines, “supercruise” and “rigorous campaign-based analysis.”

 

But the bottom line, they said, is they want the Pentagon to build 60 more Raptors after the current three-year contract for F-22As - won by the Georgians against Pentagon resistance - runs out in 2010 to keep local voters working.

 

The $5 billion price tag of those planes, the Georgians said, would keep 25,000 Americans working, provide business for about 1,000 contractors in 44 states and help about 75,000 other people who would benefit “indirectly.”

 

How many of the 75,000 work and vote in Georgia is not known.

 

Source: Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Photo: USAF

 

[Ignatius 4]

Shut it down, F22 sucks anyway... it's better to own Su-27, Su 30, Su bla bla bla... it performs better way better, who needs those stealth

[Andrew Lim 1]

Shut it down, F22 sucks anyway... it's better to own Su-27, Su 30, Su bla bla bla... it performs better way better, who needs those stealth

 

Emmm.. how you know Sukhois are better than Raptors? Any evidence?

[Azmir I. 1]

probably they will extend the production line now that the ACC (Air Combat Cmnd) F15A/B/C/D are no more airworthy,plus the USAF CAS/Chief of Air Staff (Gen Max Moseley) and the Air Force Secretary are asking Congress for aircraft to replace the grounded F15s

[iwan 3]

we will never know which planes are the better ones until they are combat proven..the russians will claim that their flankers can beat the american raptors anytime and vice versa..so we will all just have to wait and see..

 

the raptors were never meant to replace the F-15s as a primary fighter right??since day 1,the price was too expensive to effectively replaced the F-15s so they proposed that it be built to 'complement' the F-15s instead..so no real surprise if they are planning to hold production in the nearest future..

[Ignatius 4]

we will never know which planes are the better ones until they are combat proven..the russians will claim that their flankers can beat the american raptors anytime and vice versa..so we will all just have to wait and see..

 

the raptors were never meant to replace the F-15s as a primary fighter right??since day 1,the price was too expensive to effectively replaced the F-15s so they proposed that it be built to 'complement' the F-15s instead..so no real surprise if they are planning to hold production in the nearest future..

 

Yup, you'll only know which is the better ones until they both went head to head in an aerial dogfight.... But given the circumstances of who'll shoot who first, with stealth and advance targeting software and hardware, sure enough the raptor are on the advantage side of the view, but then if the sukhois manage to elude all those missiles shot at it from afar, and gotten to dogfight range.... RAPTOR is in deep ass trouble... Just my 2 1/2 cents worth of thought.. but hey Iwan... I like your SUKHOI avatar hehehe

[Denny Yen 0]

I suppose its the costs of the F-22. It seems that it is cheaper for USAF or USN's naval wing to modernize by upgrading existing models rather than spend on new non-battle tested planes.

 

The modernization programs are all based on battle-proven models such as Super Hornet for F-18s - more powerful engines, updated avionics and re-designed/re-worked airframe. Same thing with Super Tomcat F-14D in the 1990s for F-14s (albeit they're now being replaced by Super Hornets). Maybe there will be a Super Eagle program for F-15s.

 

Also, with the UCAVs such as Predator - it may be more cost-effective to deploy in battle-field - a sky warrior that never tires, expendable, small, difficult to detect.

 

Off-topic - I don't think they will ever scrap carried-based fighters - a carrier armada in your backyard can either be comforting, if you're a friend of US or tell you they mean business, if you're an enemy of the US.

[Andrew Lim 1]

Yup, you'll only know which is the better ones until they both went head to head in an aerial dogfight.... But given the circumstances of who'll shoot who first, with stealth and advance targeting software and hardware, sure enough the raptor are on the advantage side of the view, but then if the sukhois manage to elude all those missiles shot at it from afar, and gotten to dogfight range.... RAPTOR is in deep ass trouble... Just my 2 1/2 cents worth of thought.. but hey Iwan... I like your SUKHOI avatar hehehe

 

The F-22 Raptor has been given a baptism by fire last year at Red Flag.

 

It achieved total superiority over the Aggressors’ F-15s and F-16s in both BVR and visual engagements. Apparently, no tactics worked against the Raptors. Six Aggressor jets, on their way to the target, tried to elude a lone Raptor by flying nap of the earth. All six were ‘killed’ outside visual range.

 

Even by overloading them with numbers in a close in dogfight, only one Raptor was ‘killed’ in a 1 vs 4 engagement when the last F-16 managed to shoot the lone Raptor down in a head to head snap shot.

 

The F-16 pilot was quoted saying that the biggest frustration was not being able to put his gunsights on the F-22 in a dogfight “You have to sacrifice three of your own guys just to get you into a firing position. Even then, I only had time to fire a single missile before the F-22 disappeared from my HUD. That was a very lucky kill”

 

Obviously, all these have not come cheap as it seems the F-22’s production may be limited.

 

[Denny Yen 0]

F-22 vs F-15 in minimum turn radius demo

 

F-15

 

F-22

 

[Andrew Lim 1]

Nice vids Denny, but i cant really tell what the turn radius were or each fighter.

 

Personally, I believe the Raptor and Su-30 will be evenly matched in a dogfight. However, as Iwan pointed out, that is not the Raptor's strength. Neither will the USAF deploy the Raptors this way.

 

The doctrine will see a flight of two Raptors mixed with four Eagles. They will be expected to take on about the same amount of hostile fourth generation fighters (F-16C, F/A-18E, SU-30)from BVR range without a single loss.

 

F-22s might have proven that they can take on up to six adversary at a time in a Red Flag scenario but i doubt this can be replicated in a real air war.

 

Raptor pilots will also be limited to fighting from a stand-off position. The unit price is just simply too high to have these birds shot down in a dogfight.

Edited March 6, 2008 by Andrew Lim

[Ignatius 4]

Either that or the Raptor just can't face it if they loose to the Su-30's in a close dogfight. The Raptor just can't pull tight turns like the Su-30's did.. Raptor is lucky to have good stealthy technology and weaponary system, without that.. even a SKYHAWK can shoot it out of the sky

[Andrew Lim 1]

Either that or the Raptor just can't face it if they loose to the Su-30's in a close dogfight. The Raptor just can't pull tight turns like the Su-30's did.. Raptor is lucky to have good stealthy technology and weaponary system, without that.. even a SKYHAWK can shoot it out of the sky

 

 

If an F-16 cannot get into a firing position on the Raptor, are you sure a Skyhawk can?

 

Like I say, I believe both the Raptor and SU-30 are equally manouverable. In a dogfight, both would have smilar odds of winning.

But there is no point in risking a billion dollar jet in a dogfight when you can smack the Sukhois from 50nm away with AIM-120s.

[Ignatius 4]

Technically speaking yeah, that is the most feasible action to be taken by a raptor.. despite being named Raptor that is. If one day Sukhois are evenly capable of shooting raptors from 50nm in return... don't you think the US would just sent in the B2's and whack their Sukhoi bases before they can even go airborne??? hehehe.. doesn't that sound better than risking lifes in dogfights???

Air maneuverability wise... sukhois have the extra kick alil better than the Raptor.. but as an overall performance as an air tactical combat fighting machine... the raptor wins big time... I've seen countless video's on su-30's maneuverability and also the raptor... a few conclussions are made instantly.. raptor's are sluggish and they cant even perform a good cobra, they could but sluggish... where as the su-30 are jaw opening when they do it.. Su-30 tight turns are so tight, yet F22 like i've said before.. sluggish and struggling. The only thing i see good in the raptor in comparison is their raw power to climb like DAP rockets hehehe.. Other than that.. I can yawn in sleepiness watching them maneuver.. I'm not saying F22's are lousy... like i've said earlier.. they are lucky to have good weaponary system and stealth... just that alone ditches Su-30 drop dead... how pity

[Andrew Lim 1]

Technically speaking yeah, that is the most feasible action to be taken by a raptor.. despite being named Raptor that is. If one day Sukhois are evenly capable of shooting raptors from 50nm in return... don't you think the US would just sent in the B2's and whack their Sukhoi bases before they can even go airborne??? hehehe.. doesn't that sound better than risking lifes in dogfights???

 

Nope. Even if the Suhkois' weaponry can reach that sort of distance, it would be useless against the Raptor still. Simply because you can't see the F-22 on radar. Therefore no radar lock and no shot can be taken.

 

Experts do suggest that the Raptor's stealth features do get compromised when they open their bay doors to launch missiles. This is easily overcome by changing location after each missile launch.

 

[Andrew Ong 1]

Shut it down, F22 sucks anyway... it's better to own Su-27, Su 30, Su bla bla bla... it performs better way better, who needs those stealth

 

How do you know?

 

F22 has advanced stealth technology that protects it from SAMs (Surface-To-Air Missiles) and has cool Sidewinder missiles