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Mohd Azizul Ramli

MAS A380 - Fleet to be Retained

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Been hearing this rumour since 2013 & it has not come to fruition as of yet.

 

I wonder if Airbus is willing to accept trade-ins?

 

Singapore Airlines had done it before.

 

"As part of the deal, Airbus has agreed to acquire SIA’s five A340-500 airliners, which will be removed from service in the fourth quarter of 2013, in line with the Airline’s policy to maintain a young fleet. This will result in the end of non-stop flights between Singapore and Los Angeles and between Singapore and Newark until replacement aircraft are available."

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SQ was able to get (sic arm twist) Airbus into accepting their A345 fleet because SQ has every single reasons to do so: great brand reputation, sound business strategy, reputable MRO, better fleet planning and etc. These reasons are good enough to give SQ (very) strong leverage to get Airbus into agreeing the sale deal.

 

With MH, erm.........totally another story.

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SQ was able to get (sic arm twist) Airbus into accepting their A345 fleet because SQ has every single reasons to do so: great brand reputation, sound business strategy, reputable MRO, better fleet planning and etc. These reasons are good enough to give SQ (very) strong leverage to get Airbus into agreeing the sale deal.

 

With MH, erm.........totally another story.

MH does have a cordial relationship with Airbus, especially when the A380 had its technical niggles which caused umpteen delays and thousands of ringgits in passenger compensation costs that MH had to borne. I don't see why they can't negotiate something.

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MH does have a cordial relationship with Airbus, especially when the A380 had its technical niggles which caused umpteen delays and thousands of ringgits in passenger compensation costs that MH had to borne. I don't see why they can't negotiate something.

 

 

One just have to take a look at the number of Airbus aircraft ordered by MH and compared that with SQ... it is not difficult to imagine why MH does not have the leverage. A bit out of the range to compare MH with SQ in my opinion.

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One just have to take a look at the number of Airbus aircraft ordered by MH and compared that with SQ... it is not difficult to imagine why MH does not have the leverage. A bit out of the range to compare MH with SQ in my opinion.

A customer is a customer is a customer. Treat them as less than valued & you'll liable to lose them. Boeing learnt that lesson the hard way with jetBlue - basically opened the doors for Airbus in America.

 

Like I said, no reason why MH can't negotiate with Airbus.

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I think that if MH is ordering, say 30-40 A350s, Airbus would have to seriously consider any buy back deals for only 6 A380s.

 

The A350s can be used to replace the entire B772 and A333 fleet.


If, and it's a big if, MH considers an A350 order.. I think they will be looking at D7's slots. Tony said recently that they will concentrate fully on the new A330's.

D7 slots are still a long time coming - the last I heard was their first delivery will be in 2018 or 2019. Apparently, D7 is not prepared to be an early adopter and wanted the aircraft to be fully tested and proven before they take their first aircraft.


A more likely scenario is for MH to take some of the remaining EK slots - these would be in 2017 and/or 2018.

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A customer is a customer is a customer. Treat them as less than valued & you'll liable to lose them. Boeing learnt that lesson the hard way with jetBlue - basically opened the doors for Airbus in America.

 

Like I said, no reason why MH can't negotiate with Airbus.

Let's just face it, MH does not have the leverage that SQ has when it comes to buying new aircraft. Unless MH is talking about going all Airbus or buying 30 to 40 A350 then Airbus will take MH seriously.

 

The current batch of A330 was one for one replacement of previous generation of A330. Hardly gives MH any leverage at all.

 

A customer is indeed a customer. It depends on how you 'arm twist' either manufacturers for better deal.

Axe falling on MAS A380s

 

The fate of the six A380 jumbo planes operated by Malaysia Airlines (MAS) seems to be getting bleaker as the national carrier is taking these aircraft off the KL-Paris route next month.

 

Aviation International News (AIN) reported: “MAS plans to offer the aircraft for lease on the open market and downgrade the equipment used on the Paris flight to Boeing 777-200ERs.”
The other four jumbos are still being used on its twice-daily KL-London route as AIN reported that “Turkish Airlines had earlier turned down MAS’s offer to wet-lease two A380s to the carrier”.
Responding to rumours that MAS is selling off all its six A380s, newly appointed chief executive officer Christoph Mueller said in a statement yesterday the carrier is still exploring fleet options to enhance viability of long haul sectors.

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AIN reported: “MAS operated an A380 on one of its three-times-daily Hong Kong flights for several months last year but discontinued the service on the superjumbo due to insufficient passenger loads.

 

“The Australian authorities rejected MAS’ application in 2013 to operate the aircraft on the KL-Sydney route as Malaysian low cost carrier Air Asia X won the rights to operate 10 Airbus A330-300 flights a week, for a total of 3,500 seats.”

 

---

 

MH72/73 if i'm not mistaken recorded a positive number of passengers. since a lot of Malaysian can't afford to fly A380 to LHR and CDG, HKG was their preferences to try MAS A380 during that period.

it was changed back to 77E because of the wings repair work, right?

 

for Australian cities, though there was an adjustment to the air bilateral agreement, i guess MAS will decide to keep the frequencies rather than to deploy A380 down there.

but it would be nice if MAS can deploy A380 to either SYD or MEL.

Edited by Yang Zulhilmi

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If MH jumps on the A350 bandwagon, would that push D7 to take their planes earlier?

Edited by Waiping

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A customer is a customer is a customer. Treat them as less than valued & you'll liable to lose them. Boeing learnt that lesson the hard way with jetBlue - basically opened the doors for Airbus in America.

 

Like I said, no reason why MH can't negotiate with Airbus.

 

Not if they are not ordering more aircraft and in financial shambles. There is no value in any negotiation. A customer is one who orders and buy planes off you. In this case, they really have no teeth in a negotiation. I might be wrong, but refer to Flee's reply below. Business is business......... when you buy in bulk, you can negotiate your discount. If you buy very little, they are less likely to open to any negotiation.

 

Jetblue is different, their financial statement and goodwill is a lot better than you know which airline, plus they order in bulk!

 

Someone pointed out earlier, if Airbus is having a hardtime finding new owners for the two Skymark A380 frames, what chance does MAS have to ask Airbus (or Boeing) to buy back? It is a trouble which Airbus prefer not to have. If MH can negotiate, then surely TG would ask Airbus to take back their A345 and A346, they would not even have to let their aircraft sat on the tarmac sunbathing till now.

 

How many airlines can ask the manufacturer to take back old aircraft? So far, I have only heard of SQ. They do it by ordering more newer aircraft in bulk (A343 for the B772s / A345 for the A359). Seriously if MH is getting rid of the 6 A380s... please take a guess at how many A359s or A333-neo they would have to order in exchange for such a deal. Is MH in a position to buy that much and do they have the appetite to do so, seriously?

 

 

I think that if MH is ordering, say 30-40 A350s, Airbus would have to seriously consider any buy back deals for only 6 A380s.

 

The A350s can be used to replace the entire B772 and A333 fleet.

D7 slots are still a long time coming - the last I heard was their first delivery will be in 2018 or 2019. Apparently, D7 is not prepared to be an early adopter and wanted the aircraft to be fully tested and proven before they take their first aircraft.

A more likely scenario is for MH to take some of the remaining EK slots - these would be in 2017 and/or 2018.

Edited by S V Choong

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Got the info from Subang..

 

no one interested to buy the dugong. Now they send to auction house. :-(..

can see MAS desperate to sell A380 as soon as possible.

 

Reason they give, unprofitable because there is no space for cargo ??

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Got the info from Subang..

 

no one interested to buy the dugong. Now they send to auction house. :-(..

can see MAS desperate to sell A380 as soon as possible.

 

Reason they give, unprofitable because there is no space for cargo ??

Funny isn't it - they are also selling their B744Fand A332F fleet.

 

One would have thought that if the A380 is not able to carry enough cargo, MH would be operating dedicated cargo flights to CDG and LHR. Somehow, the excuse that the A380 cannot carry cargo is a weak one.

 

EK cargo also use dedicated freighters - and they can make the A380 work. SQ does the same too. So why is MH an exception?

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Media Statement by Malaysia Airlines

 

 

Christoph Mueller assumed leadership of the Malaysia Airlines Group on 1 May 2015 following a decision by its sole shareholder, Khazanah Nasional Berhad to accelerate the leadership transition to enable Mueller to be in the executive capacity to lead the overall restructuring of MAS.

Most important on Mueller’s plate is to drive the design and implementation of the business plan for the new Malaysia Airlines, to turn the national carrier to sustainable profitability.
According to Mueller, exploring fleet options to enhance viability of long haul sectors is one area being looked into, “as such, recent speculations on the airline offering some of its fleet for sale or lease is too premature when nothing concrete has been achieved.”
“MAS needs to operate and utilize its fleet at an optimum level besides maximizing revenue on the route it flies. The market needs to give Malaysia Airlines room to explore various options in determining the most viable strategy,” Mueller added.

 


http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/nl/en/corporate-info/press-room/2015/media-statement-by-malaysian-airlines.html

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MH is now suffering from the lack of fleet planning - with leases of their B777s running out in the next year or two, they have not ordered a replacement for these aircraft. If MH withdraws the A380 from service, they will be effectively withdrawing from Europe.

 

The new or used A380 market is virtually non existent - there were no new orders for it in 2014 and Amadeus have problems placing their 20 frame order with customers. Unless MH offers firesale prices for them, no one is likely to take up any of their sale or lease offers.

 

Ironically, it would appear that the very aircraft earmarked for sale might be the ones MH needed most:

 

1 6 x A380s and 4 x B777s for long range routes

2 4 x A330 freighters for dedicated freight services on routes where the A380 cannot carry enough cargo

 

It could be that the B744 freighters are too big but they are good for carrying bulky cargo - perhaps the ME3 are eating into MASkargo's business too aggressively.

 

Whatever it is they are considering, the decision will not be an easy one. But one thing needs to be seen through - the cuts in manpower and crony supplier contracts at inflated prices are crucial to MH's survival.

 

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Turn two of them to 9M-NAA and 9M-NAB :)

Any bets that they will be used for the next Haj season?

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TF gave a hint at the recent CAPA event that AK Group may not take A350 delivery at all as they have place an order for 55 A330neos.

 

Perhaps TF-CM can work something out.

 

http://bloga350.blogspot.fr/2015/05/10-ordered-a350s-by-air-asia-x-could-be.html

 

If MH can wor out something with D7 for slot swapping; the issue now would be D7 slots are for 2018-2019 delivery. I don't think MH's current B777 interior can battle for 2-3 more years.....

Edited by JuliusWong

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Please don't copy and paste an entire article like you have done - in this case I wrote the article for AusBT and don't appreciate my material being copied wholesale in a forum - I'd appreciate if you could edit your post to include only the first two paragraphs of my story, then a link to the entire story on AusBT.

To djsflyn, my sincere apologies for my action. It was done in haste at my surprise at the news. Again, I do apologise.

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TF gave a hint at the recent CAPA event that AK Group may not take A350 delivery at all as they have place an order for 55 A330neos.

 

Perhaps TF-CM can work something out.

 

http://bloga350.blogspot.fr/2015/05/10-ordered-a350s-by-air-asia-x-could-be.html

 

If MH can wor out something with D7 for slot swapping; the issue now would be D7 slots are for 2018-2019 delivery. I don't think MH's current B777 interior can battle for 2-3 more years.....

It would be quite a simple transaction - D7 will just assign the order to MH for a fee. However, MH might need more than 10 A350s and will need to issue an additional order.

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