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Edwin P K

MAS Enrich Frequent Flyer Program

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Thanks. Haha! Yup, don't read enough papers.

 

call enrich or if you're based in putrajaya, you can go to MAS office and update your card to enrich gom.

 

btw, the card has been here for quite sometimes, it has been launched by the chief secretary to the government, and was published on media....do you read newspapers?

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Just a question to those who had utilised MH Upgrade. Do you get FFP points and sectors credited?

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Oh that good to know. I thought if you upgrade you get none whatsoever.

The problem arises if the miles don't credit and you have to make a claim. The staff may insist that miles aren't supposed to be awarded.

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The problem arises if the miles don't credit and you have to make a claim. The staff may insist that miles aren't supposed to be awarded.

They will give u a new eticket number upon successful upgrade. So quote your old eticket number when you make the claim.

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They will give u a new eticket number upon successful upgrade. So quote your old eticket number when you make the claim.

Yes if I read the conditions of MH Upgrade, you are not entitled to accrual of Enrich Miles and sectors.

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1. To reach silver tier, one may need to fly 5 sectors less or 5000 miles less than normal silver. To reach gold, fly 45 sectors instead of 50 or 45000 points, and for e-plat, fly 130 sectors or 130000 points.

 

2. Gov of Malaysia crest on the card. Nothing special....

 

3. Fly with full Y or B class and access to lounge for free.

 

i've fly with full Y but never get access to GL <_>

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Has anybody ever experienced doing a Oneworld multicarrier redemption on Enrich?

 

- How are the taxes and surcharges like? Hefty? Fair? Competitive?

 

- How many sectors are acceptable for a redemption to get from A to B (no stopovers)? (e.g. from KUL to LHR, can I route KUL-HKG-DOH-DXB-LHR on MH/CX/QR/QF?) or (from PEN to AKL, can I route PEN-KUL-SIN-SYD-AKL on MH/MH/BA/QF?)

 

- How much "backtracking" is acceptable? (e.g. SIN-BNE-SYD , where heading to BNE to connect to SYD does look like backtracking but may be acceptable to the reservation system)

 

- Are the Enrich call centre staff competent in doing the redemption reservation?

 

- Would the Enrich staff have access to the seat map and be able to make specific seat requests?

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Has anybody ever experienced doing a Oneworld multicarrier redemption on Enrich?

 

- How are the taxes and surcharges like? Hefty? Fair? Competitive?

 

- How many sectors are acceptable for a redemption to get from A to B (no stopovers)? (e.g. from KUL to LHR, can I route KUL-HKG-DOH-DXB-LHR on MH/CX/QR/QF?) or (from PEN to AKL, can I route PEN-KUL-SIN-SYD-AKL on MH/MH/BA/QF?)

 

- How much "backtracking" is acceptable? (e.g. SIN-BNE-SYD , where heading to BNE to connect to SYD does look like backtracking but may be acceptable to the reservation system)

 

- Are the Enrich call centre staff competent in doing the redemption reservation?

 

- Would the Enrich staff have access to the seat map and be able to make specific seat requests?

YQ is determined by the operating carrier. It's generally only worth paying if you're redeeming F/J.

 

I doubt backtracking would be an issue in your case, but you never know. The call center staff have absolutely no idea how to book a partner award and come up with their own rules. Some say you can have up to 4 segments, others say otherwise. They'll place you on hold for 30-60 minutes and come back with an unsatisfactory answer (couldn't find a supervisor, award space doesn't show up, taxes couldn't be calculated etc)

 

If possible try going to the KL sentral office. It makes your life a lot easier especially for multi-segment bookings. Even then, they might take quite a bit of time but they have a handbook that helps so they won't come up with their own rules or excuses.

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Enrich's redemption on OW carrier based are flown miles, zone based. Therefore the backtracking rule doesn't apply. This system is similar to All Nippon Mileage Club. You just work out the distance on all the sectors and it is charged one lump sump plus applicable taxes. I am however, not sure if there is a segment limit.

 

 

Other methods across other zone to zone (but not flown miles based FFP): For a redemption route to be considered acceptable it usually must be within 125% of the MPM (Maximum permitted mileage) of the city pair.

 

To go with your example above: KUL-LHR MPM is 8343

 

So with the aforementioned 8343 miles in mind = 1.25 x 4005 = 10429. An award however routed, less than 10429 miles, would be acceptable.

 

KUL-HKG-DOH-DXB-LHR comes in at 9146 miles and barring any other restrictions - would be acceptable. AA Advantage is one example of an airline that employs this system.

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KUL-HKG-DOH-DXB-LHR comes in at 9146 miles and barring any other restrictions - would be acceptable. AA Advantage is one example of an airline that employs this system.

 

I don't believe you can do KUL-HKG-DOH-DXB-LHR on AA. You can do KUL-HKG-DOH-LHR though. India/Middle East is not a valid transit point for Asia 2 - Europe award with the exception of DOH and both inbound and outbound flight must be on QR (can't fly CX HKG-DOH)

Edited by Craig

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I don't believe you can do KUL-HKG-DOH-DXB-LHR on AA. You can do KUL-HKG-DOH-LHR though. India/Middle East is not a valid transit point for Asia 2 - Europe award with the exception of DOH and both inbound and outbound flight must be on QR (can't fly CX HKG-DOH)

I should have split up that route example and AAdvantage

 

Am aware (as we discussed some weeks ago) ME is not a valid transit point for AAdvantage.

 

The sentence was not meant to say the routing is acceptable on AAdvantage.

Edited by Suzanne Goh

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So frequent flyer programs are an opportunity for airlines to differentiate themselves and compete. For year in the US the legacy carriers offered rather poor service and products especially when compared to their foreign competition. However they kept the punters coming and loyal with rather rewarding FFP benefits and miles. Upgrades and miles were reasonably easy to come by. Now some could argue these programs were to generous and many have indeed scaled back on these benefits when compared to what they offered a decade ago however in general the benefits are still leagues ahead of whats offered in Asia all while the onboard product that the US carriers offer has improved (not that is world beating but they are all flat in business on international flights or will be soon)

 

Anyway so here is my point MAS is in a dreadful state and flying empty planes around the world and even their regular fares are very low indeed. So the opportunity cost of them offering a reward seat or an upgrade is practically zero! However instead of trying to fill these seats and in the process draw in some customers via the loyalty program they instead raised the redemption rates recently. Does anyone at this airline have a brain? (CM excluded) In addition MAS could open more of its seats for partner redemption this would be a way to a least bring in some money vs nothing for flying the seat empty. TG is in a similar position but at least they are sensible and let partners mileage holders fill their empty seats.

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ok... you've got a point, but I find getting redemption is difficult no matter what airline. I fly BCN-GRU return regularly. The number of times I tried to upgrade from C to F is like... at least 10 times. And everytime they tell me it is full. When I board the plane, at most I see 4 people in F. Usually there is only 1 or 2. So what do they mean it is full?? I try on the internet, no chance. Then I try on the phone, no chance, and then they told me to try at check-in. But then the check in people tell me that it is not possible, and it has to be done in advance. I finally managed one upgrade last year from GRU-BCN. It wasn't available for my Miles and More (LH) programme, but on Krisflyer. But not the saver fare, but standard fare. But.... the BCN-SIN sector was not available, so I went back to C after the stopover. And guess what, there was only one person in F. Well, that is SQ...

 

Try getting redemption on Swiss. It is almost impossible, and almost all the time it will propose a flight via Frankfurt on Lufthansa.

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The complaint is about MH partners not getting seats - i.e inventory released in P, U and X class.

 

Am not sure why Enrich is "unrewarding" - Enrich members get PLENTY of MH inventory (in fact industry leading, simply because it draws from revenue classes and not P,U and X as released to partners)

 

That partners don't get the "stock" is something else altogether so let's call a spade a spade.

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There should be a thread asking "Why is D Singh having a such a hard-on about MH?"

 

Anyways, to answer your question based on my knowledge:

 

1) The devaluation is nothing new. The FFP model as we know it is in need of a dire revamp & what MH is doing is simply to align Enrich to industry standards. To quote a Forbes article on the matter:

 

But to airlines, miles flown is a fairly stupid indicator of who their best customers are. This may in part explain why airlines chronically lose money and most have historically gone out of business. Instead of miles they should care about money. Many hotel loyalty programs, the most similar to airline programs in concept, are based on dollars spent not nights stayed, which makes total sense. Imagine a bank credit card that rewarded you based on how often you charged things rather than how much you spent. Its a ridiculous concept bankers would never go for but airlines almost all think this way.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larryolmsted/2013/01/23/why-frequent-flyer-programs-dont-work-and-what-delta-is-doing-about-it/

2) There is the MHupgrade program whereby you can set an amount that you're comfortable with and if you won the bid, you will pay that amount & enjoy the upgrade. Earlier today one of my vendors was gushing over the fact that he had recently used MHupgrade to fly in J to TPE for an additional RM 100. If the flight's popular enough the fee can easily be in the thousands that it's almost the cost of the J seat if bought outright. That's an additional revenue stream. Whereas upgrade redemptions are not considered to be revenue - it's costs to an airline which is why many are reluctant to be generous with FFP redemptions. Oh they're more than happy to provide you hassle free travel on ground because the additional costs are negligible, but when it comes to flights, there are no negligible costs.

 

As for partners - same thing. Some airlines are overtly generous with mileage accrual that it's unrewarding for their other partners to open up as many as seats for the generous airline.

Edited by Mohd Suhaimi Fariz

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In my years with Krisflyer, I never got any redemption seats, save for one or two one-way upgrades.

 

But in my current years with Enrich, all my Enrich miles are spent with redemption booking, and easily so. As a matter of fact, will be on one with MH and then on BA in next few days.

 

So perhaps you can give some examples.

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ok... you've got a point, but I find getting redemption is difficult no matter what airline. I fly BCN-GRU return regularly. The number of times I tried to upgrade from C to F is like... at least 10 times. And everytime they tell me it is full. When I board the plane, at most I see 4 people in F. Usually there is only 1 or 2. So what do they mean it is full?? I try on the internet, no chance. Then I try on the phone, no chance, and then they told me to try at check-in. But then the check in people tell me that it is not possible, and it has to be done in advance. I finally managed one upgrade last year from GRU-BCN. It wasn't available for my Miles and More (LH) programme, but on Krisflyer. But not the saver fare, but standard fare. But.... the BCN-SIN sector was not available, so I went back to C after the stopover. And guess what, there was only one person in F. Well, that is SQ...

 

Try getting redemption on Swiss. It is almost impossible, and almost all the time it will propose a flight via Frankfurt on Lufthansa.

 

In SQ's case they are stingy i concede, but even at the standard level the price of a redemption seat can be reasonable, the upgrade generally less so. SQ protects the exclusivity of its F cabin because its a product that some actually do pay for. In C they are more reasonable.

 

As far as LH are you looking for an F or a C seat?

The complaint is about MH partners not getting seats - i.e inventory released in P, U and X class.

 

Am not sure why Enrich is "unrewarding" - Enrich members get PLENTY of MH inventory (in fact industry leading, simply because it draws from revenue classes and not P,U and X as released to partners)

 

That partners don't get the "stock" is something else altogether so let's call a spade a spade.

 

Actually my complaint is 2 fold.

 

1 i think its foolish MH does not release more seats for partner redemption.

 

2 while i concede for its own members MAS does have seats for redemption the complaint there is the cost in points is unreasonable, and recently moved in the wrong direction when the airline isnt flying with anything close to decent loads so why piss of customers who have been loyal to you when the opportunity cost of the redemption seat effectively when down.

There should be a thread asking "Why is D Singh having a such a hard-on about MH?"

 

Anyways, to answer your question based on my knowledge:

 

1) The devaluation is nothing new. The FFP model as we know it is in need of a dire revamp & what MH is doing is simply to align Enrich to industry standards. To quote a Forbes article on the matter:

 

 

2) There is the MHupgrade program whereby you can set an amount that you're comfortable with and if you won the bid, you will pay that amount & enjoy the upgrade. Earlier today one of my vendors was gushing over the fact that he had recently used MHupgrade to fly in J to TPE for an additional RM 100. If the flight's popular enough the fee can easily be in the thousands that it's almost the cost of the J seat if bought outright. That's an additional revenue stream. Whereas upgrade redemptions are not considered to be revenue - it's costs to an airline which is why many are reluctant to be generous with FFP redemptions. Oh they're more than happy to provide you hassle free travel on ground because the additional costs are negligible, but when it comes to flights, there are no negligible costs.

 

As for partners - same thing. Some airlines are overtly generous with mileage accrual that it's unrewarding for their other partners to open up as many as seats for the generous airline.

 

Why am i interested in this... because i see lots of wasted potential here and also as a Malaysian we are all paying to subsidize this POS nationalized company. As they insist on keeping this horse with 4 broken legs alive instead of just putting it down or letting it die its in every Malaysians best interest for MAS to stop bleeding so more of our money isnt wasted on this!

 

now to your other points.

 

1. Mas redemption prices are now higher than industry standard while the airline itself offers a product that is below industry standard there for to compensate for this could offer a more generous FFP in order to actually compete.

 

2 You are incorrect here mile represent a liability on a company balance sheet when they are redeemed that liability is released and has a positive effect on the bottom line. However in this case im not even talking about mileage upgrades, im talking about the US style system where domestic upgrades are free for the most frequent flyers. MAS is offers 737's on most of its regional network these planes are flying shorter routes and for the most part people are not willing to pay to fly these routes on MAS in business. To draw in some more pax why not offer upgrades for loyal members on these flights. The only cost of this upgrade is the catering which would likely be loaded anyway.

 

3 Mas does not have a shortage of empty seats they should try and monetize them by whatever means.

In my years with Krisflyer, I never got any redemption seats, save for one or two one-way upgrades.

 

But in my current years with Enrich, all my Enrich miles are spent with redemption booking, and easily so. As a matter of fact, will be on one with MH and then on BA in next few days.

 

So perhaps you can give some examples.

 

 

can you please detail your redemption route and what it cost you in miles and RM?

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In SQ's case they are stingy i concede, but even at the standard level the price of a redemption seat can be reasonable, the upgrade generally less so. SQ protects the exclusivity of its F cabin because its a product that some actually do pay for. In C they are more reasonable.

 

As far as LH are you looking for an F or a C seat?

 

Actually my complaint is 2 fold.

 

1 i think its foolish MH does not release more seats for partner redemption.

 

2 while i concede for its own members MAS does have seats for redemption the complaint there is the cost in points is unreasonable, and recently moved in the wrong direction when the airline isnt flying with anything close to decent loads so why piss of customers who have been loyal to you when the opportunity cost of the redemption seat effectively when down.

As has been said earlier, the recent devaluation was to keep MH in line with the industry's standards. Previously, one could redeem KUL-LHR one way in J for only 46750 miles, which is obviously insanely low! Enrich miles in itself is also probably seen as a liability to MH when it's in the hands of you and I.

 

As for partner redemptions, I haven't had any problems finding MH award availability through BA in either J or F.

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As has been said earlier, the recent devaluation was to keep MH in line with the industry's standards. Previously, one could redeem KUL-LHR one way in J for only 46750 miles, which is obviously insanely low! Enrich miles in itself is also probably seen as a liability to MH when it's in the hands of you and I.

 

As for partner redemptions, I haven't had any problems finding MH award availability through BA in either J or F.

 

I would disagree with both of your points. MAS does not make miles super easy to earn when flying so to push the price up especially when seats are going out empty and the airline needs its (few) loyal customers more than ever is foolish. Today I could redeem 51K SQ miles for a one way flight to Europe, or 52.5K AA miles on CX, QR or even MAS its self with no fuel charge to boot! So the current Enrich levels are usurious.

 

 

Im not sure what routes you are looking for but. Ive never seen more than 1 MH F seat open on BA and often see no J seats on empty flights to NRT among other destinations.

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can you please detail your redemption route and what it cost you in miles and RM?

 

KUL-LHR-CPH return, Enrich Miles 61050, tax RM700. And Enrich Miles required is higher because can redemption can be done only via phone. Unrewarding? For me it's rewarding, especially you get seats for the dates that you want to travel!

 

Enrich also has seasonal offers which gives you 20-30% discounts, for instance London is now 20% off .

 

http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/etc/designs/default/canvas/content/campaigns/enrichWorld/english/2015-dwor-feb-apr/jcr%3Acontent/importer/home.html#!/enrich-offers?p=europe-uk&t=text

Edited by Edwin P K

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KUL-LHR-CPH return, Enrich Miles 61050, tax RM700. And Enrich Miles required is higher because can redemption can be done only via phone. Unrewarding? For me it's rewarding, especially you get seats for the dates that you want to travel!

 

Enrich also has seasonal offers which gives you 20-30% discounts, for instance London is now 20% off .

 

http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/etc/designs/default/canvas/content/campaigns/enrichWorld/english/2015-dwor-feb-apr/jcr%3Acontent/importer/home.html#!/enrich-offers?p=europe-uk&t=text

So this is an economy class redemption. I must say I'm surprised the taxes were only RM 700 I would have expected the YQ to have been more than that.

 

I am glad that you feel you received value for this redemption however I think MAS could do alot better especially in premium cabins.

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In 2012, United sold $5.1 billion in frequent flier miles compared to $25.8 billion in actual airfare revenue, and there has been talk of airlines spinning off their mileage arms as separate companies. Better yet, airlines get a lot of that money for nothing! For instance, United expects that 25% of the miles that it is selling will never be redeemed.

http://fortune.com/2014/10/01/airline-loyalty-programs/

 

If MH management was half as smart as some claimed; MH need not bankrupt and resurrected a few times in the last 20 years.

 

Although ticket redemption and upgrade is more easily available on MH but surcharge on ticket redemption could cost more than promo fare by other airline and redemption for upgrade need higher fare class. Personally find it cheaper to upgrade by MHupgrade.

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1. Mas redemption prices are now higher than industry standard while the airline itself offers a product that is below industry standard there for to compensate for this could offer a more generous FFP in order to actually compete.

 

2 You are incorrect here mile represent a liability on a company balance sheet when they are redeemed that liability is released and has a positive effect on the bottom line. However in this case im not even talking about mileage upgrades, im talking about the US style system where domestic upgrades are free for the most frequent flyers. MAS is offers 737's on most of its regional network these planes are flying shorter routes and for the most part people are not willing to pay to fly these routes on MAS in business. To draw in some more pax why not offer upgrades for loyal members on these flights. The only cost of this upgrade is the catering which would likely be loaded anyway.

 

3 Mas does not have a shortage of empty seats they should try and monetize them by whatever means.

 

1) Like others have mentioned, Enrich redemption is pretty competitive. It's only 63,750 miles oneway in J to Europe. It's a slightly higher than SQ/AA but none of them allows you to book into a revenue bucket, so you are at the mercy of the IM. I would say MH is extremely generous.

 

2) Miles are a liability to an airline. MH will have to pay partners for their seats when they redeem an award seat, hence it's a liability. When they devalue their miles, it reduces the liability of the airline because more miles is required to redeem a seat.

 

You might be alone that most people are not willing to pay for MH J short haul. When you start giving it away for free ala US carriers, then no one would want to pay for it. For now, people still want to pay for it because there are values added to it.

 

3) Well let's see if Christoph Mueller will introduce HBO (hand-baggage only) fares, pay for seat assignments even in Business Class like BA, monetize entertainment, power outlets, removing lounge access for OWS/OWE, buy-on-board, peddling their credit cards on board, advertisement on the tray table etc.

 

 

 

I would disagree with both of your points. MAS does not make miles super easy to earn when flying so to push the price up especially when seats are going out empty and the airline needs its (few) loyal customers more than ever is foolish. Today I could redeem 51K SQ miles for a one way flight to Europe, or 52.5K AA miles on CX, QR or even MAS its self with no fuel charge to boot! So the current Enrich levels are usurious.

 

 

Im not sure what routes you are looking for but. Ive never seen more than 1 MH F seat open on BA and often see no J seats on empty flights to NRT among other destinations.

 

I am confused. If you are redeeming Enrich miles on MH, it doesn't come out from the P, U, X bucket, but rather as Suzanne said, a revenue bucket. So there is *a lot* of award redemptions available for Enrich members on MH metal.

 

Whilst MH doesn't make it super easy to earn whilst flying in discounted Economy, it is competitive in premium cabins. It's pretty much the industry standard now. And if you are using partner miles for redemption, you have a choice of other airlines, since as you say "MH is a POS".

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