All Things FireFly

[JuliusWong 0]

11 hours ago, flee said:

It will be interesting to see what MASWings will become after FY has taken over in Borneo. Will it only operate RAS flights?

MASWings will still continue to operate their specialty: ATR 72 routes among the important town/cities around Sabah and Sarawak and the short and sweet Twin Otter routes for remote areas. This was the last updated route map published in April 2019 before COVID 19 hits in 2020. Since then, TWU-TRK route has been cancelled and there are some other adjustments.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/MASwings/photos/a.132980121140/10156706005521141/?type=3

Would the FY handling intra-Sabah and Sarawak route means Sarawak government has given up plan to set up their own airline?

[jahur 0]

MASWings is tasked for Borneo sectors that are usually not profitable but needed due to local needs. One sector which has been always profitable may be heading to an issue namely Tawau Tarakan.

As for Firefly, it is basically a no frills and required to operate as a profiting business taking over most of MH's lower yield routes especially domestic with potential to try out new waters from secondary stations outside of KUL.

Sarawak has always been planning to setup its own airline problem arises from the actual cost needed to run its own RAS support. The ATR72-500 is already an issue with MOT and state gov as they expect MAG to use the 500 series for decades is already one sign of potential issue in regards to funding.

[JuliusWong 0]

45 minutes ago, jahur said:

MASWings is tasked for Borneo sectors that are usually not profitable but needed due to local needs. One sector which has been always profitable may be heading to an issue namely Tawau Tarakan.

As for Firefly, it is basically a no frills and required to operate as a profiting business taking over most of MH's lower yield routes especially domestic with potential to try out new waters from secondary stations outside of KUL.

Sarawak has always been planning to setup its own airline problem arises from the actual cost needed to run its own RAS support. The ATR72-500 is already an issue with MOT and state gov as they expect MAG to use the 500 series for decades is already one sign of potential issue in regards to funding.

Thank you for your input Jahur. I just read up on their Tarakan route, apparently the load has been modest while it was in operation for past ten years before it was suspended in 2022. The impact of COVID19 accelerated its "death". https://masgstrss1mawgap.blob.core.windows.net/website/Web/MASwings to cease operations into East Kalimantan - 30 OCT 2022.pdf They used to fly BKI-PPS but was quickly suspended. 

All in all, MASWings is never meant to make profit since it is a community airline, much like those in the UK. Don't know much about those in UK, are they making profit or at least at break even point? I know airlines will submit bids to operate certain routes, some will be offered subsidies, but even with the subsidies there are/were a lot such airlines went out of business recently as well in the UK.

May we know what is the issue with ATR 72-500 with MOT and state government? MAG should be planning its replacement now, the fleet is not getting any younger. 

EDIT: Saw this new schedule on its webpage:

Edited April 14, 2023 by JuliusWong

[jahur 0]

22 minutes ago, JuliusWong said:

Thank you for your input Jahur. I just read up on their Tarakan route, apparently the load has been modest while it was in operation for past ten years before it was suspended in 2022. The impact of COVID19 accelerated its "death". https://masgstrss1mawgap.blob.core.windows.net/website/Web/MASwings to cease operations into East Kalimantan - 30 OCT 2022.pdf They used to fly BKI-PPS but was quickly suspended. 

All in all, MASWings is never meant to make profit since it is a community airline, much like those in the UK. Don't know much about those in UK, are they making profit or at least at break even point? I know airlines will submit bids to operate certain routes, some will be offered subsidies, but even with the subsidies there are/were a lot such airlines went out of business recently as well in the UK.

May we know what is the issue with ATR 72-500 with MOT and state government? MAG should be planning its replacement now, the fleet is not getting any younger. 

Last heard as of nov 2022 people in Tarakan were pissed maswing has yet to establish any flights even the ferry services was limited. This route is a heavy cargo depended loaded sector. Usually loads of Milo, Rice, nestle products are packed and flown over as those stuff in Indonesia are pricey. You even have occasional live goats and seafood. Believe it is now in deadlock awaiting for FY(again limited by the cargo it can carry so may be a useless transfer as well). Ak was once interested but to route it via BKI. This was deemed not profitable by demand it has to be from TWU.

Uk community airlines main aim is to at least break even and its the same for most around the world including MASWings.

As for the ATR. Heard MAG will have to fork out on its own as it has unfilled orders for the 600 series from ATR. When will they sign it is believe to be within this 3 years. But they need to know ATR is not designed for 20 years so if they get this new ATR and expect them to last until 2040 they're pretty much repeating the same stupid mistakes. The ATR Evo is even thought to last less than the 600 series as well.

[flee 5]

Is it so difficult for MoT to understand that the ATRs operate a lot of cycles, being short haul aircraft? The airframe cannot last very long as the cycles run out.

[jahur 0]

22 minutes ago, flee said:

Is it so difficult for MoT to understand that the ATRs operate a lot of cycles, being short haul aircraft? The airframe cannot last very long as the cycles run out.

Problem also comes from manufacturer ATR they advertise the ATR's to be as sturdy aircraft capable of handling many robust scenarios and high cycles of the old turboprop days coupled with superb low fuel burn which entices many. There are a few operators still operating near 40year old atrs as of today. Problem the moment you open the manual and see the amount of MEL items listed and repeated replacement oft broken parts repeatedly you know the planes are flying on thin thread. These operators hoard parts for their atrs from the second hand market like how Indonesia houses parts for the antique GAF NOMAD N22 it still operates. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by jahur

[Alif A. F. 0]

On 4/14/2023 at 9:55 AM, jahur said:

MASWings is tasked for Borneo sectors that are usually not profitable but needed due to local needs. One sector which has been always profitable may be heading to an issue namely Tawau Tarakan.

As for Firefly, it is basically a no frills and required to operate as a profiting business taking over most of MH's lower yield routes especially domestic with potential to try out new waters from secondary stations outside of KUL.

Sarawak has always been planning to setup its own airline problem arises from the actual cost needed to run its own RAS support. The ATR72-500 is already an issue with MOT and state gov as they expect MAG to use the 500 series for decades is already one sign of potential issue in regards to funding.

Lahad Datu seems like a good candidate for flights beyond dependence on MASWings in the near future.  Plan of new airport capable of handling narrow body jets has been surfacing now and then further east at Silabukan (an area between Lahad Datu and Tungku).

 

On 4/14/2023 at 10:45 AM, jahur said:

Last heard as of nov 2022 people in Tarakan were pissed maswing has yet to establish any flights even the ferry services was limited. This route is a heavy cargo depended loaded sector. Usually loads of Milo, Rice, nestle products are packed and flown over as those stuff in Indonesia are pricey. You even have occasional live goats and seafood. Believe it is now in deadlock awaiting for FY(again limited by the cargo it can carry so may be a useless transfer as well). Ak was once interested but to route it via BKI. This was deemed not profitable by demand it has to be from TWU.

Uk community airlines main aim is to at least break even and its the same for most around the world including MASWings.

As for the ATR. Heard MAG will have to fork out on its own as it has unfilled orders for the 600 series from ATR. When will they sign it is believe to be within this 3 years. But they need to know ATR is not designed for 20 years so if they get this new ATR and expect them to last until 2040 they're pretty much repeating the same stupid mistakes. The ATR Evo is even thought to last less than the 600 series as well.

Why not BKI-TWU-TRK vv? Oh, wait is it because TWU-TRK distance is too short for A320s?

[jahur 0]

2 hours ago, Alif A. F. said:

Lahad Datu seems like a good candidate for flights beyond dependence on MASWings in the near future.  Plan of new airport capable of handling narrow body jets has been surfacing now and then further east at Silabukan (an area between Lahad Datu and Tungku).

 

Why not BKI-TWU-TRK vv? Oh, wait is it because TWU-TRK distance is too short for A320s?

Most of the passengers and goods are from TWU. 188 seater is also too big. Tarakan is a 90 seater or less sector. 

[Timothy 1]

I'm hoping for BTU - KCH. Used to have 1 daily by MH, gone for almost 5 years.

Yet AK can have 4 to 5 daily on the same route since MH pulled out. Hmmmm ....

[Zamir 0]

FIREFLY TENTATIVELY RESUMES PENANG – KUANTAN IN NS24

Firefly in preliminary schedule listing for Northern summer 2024 season tentatively files service resumption on Penang – Kuantan route, operated by ATR72 aircraft. Last served until December 2020, the airline would operate 4 weekly flights from 31MAR24.
 
FY2462 PEN1310 – 1440KUA AT7 x246
FY2463 KUA1505 – 1635PEN AT7 x246

[Adam Lawrence 0]

Firefly to start Penang-Bangkok flights from Nov 3

 

https://theedgemalaysia.com/node/685385

[Pall 0]

On 10/9/2023 at 9:03 PM, Adam Lawrence said:

Firefly to start Penang-Bangkok flights from Nov 3

 

https://theedgemalaysia.com/node/685385

Glad to see this finally happening.

A lot of their plans got derailed this year due to MH's delayed 737-8.

Hence transfer of the older 738's cannot take place between MH and FY.

[JuliusWong 0]

6 hours ago, Pall said:

Glad to see this finally happening.

A lot of their plans got derailed this year due to MH's delayed 737-8.

Hence transfer of the older 738's cannot take place between MH and FY.

9M-FFF will leave MH fleet for FY towards end of this month. It is the last MH B738 in the old cheatline livery. 9M-FFF phase out has been delayed a few times. Subject to final changes.

9M-MLK end of Q2 next year, 9M-MLL will be follow soon after. Subject to final changes.

[Pall 0]

21 hours ago, JuliusWong said:

9M-FFF will leave MH fleet for FY towards end of this month. It is the last MH B738 in the old cheatline livery. 9M-FFF phase out has been delayed a few times. Subject to final changes.

This is after 9M-MVA arrives around the 3rd week of October. 

[Craig 0]

Is there a typo on MAVCOM's October ATR bulletin? FY applied for 3 weekly TWU-NKG services? Not BKI, not PVG/CAN/HKG but from a tertiary city to another? Unless there's a spike in ocean delicacy demand in NKG that I am unaware of.

[jahur 0]

45 minutes ago, Craig said:

Is there a typo on MAVCOM's October ATR bulletin? FY applied for 3 weekly TWU-NKG services? Not BKI, not PVG/CAN/HKG but from a tertiary city to another? Unless there's a spike in ocean delicacy demand in NKG that I am unaware of.

Seasonal scheduling that was suppose to start early next year if not for the delays due to lack of aircraft. SDK direct china is also being thought of. FY's focus market for Sabah will be oriental while PEN will be ASEAN.

Meanwhile the Domestic takeover of 1 to 1 from MAB's non domestic trunk routes which was hinted at during MCO will now rather be lackluster takeover as the market has been diluted by ak's dominance that duopoly operations is also not sustainable. You might expect to see some routes let go by MAG with no replacement or rather a replacement but severe capacity drop.  

Edited November 24, 2023 by jahur

[BC Tam 2]

https://www.mavcom.my/en/2023/11/10/air-traffic-rights-bulletin-october-2023/

Oooh, BKI-KIX 😀

We have not seen that in anyone's plans for a very long while

[Craig 0]

14 hours ago, jahur said:

Seasonal scheduling that was suppose to start early next year if not for the delays due to lack of aircraft. SDK direct china is also being thought of. FY's focus market for Sabah will be oriental while PEN will be ASEAN.

Meanwhile the Domestic takeover of 1 to 1 from MAB's non domestic trunk routes which was hinted at during MCO will now rather be lackluster takeover as the market has been diluted by ak's dominance that duopoly operations is also not sustainable. You might expect to see some routes let go by MAG with no replacement or rather a replacement but severe capacity drop.  

I'd have thought something like SDK/TWU-PVG/CAN or BKI-NKG/HGH, a tertiary city to a primary city but a tertiary city to another tertiary city is wow. Guess Chinese must love the seafood in Tawau/Sandakan. There aren't really major resorts in either. Most island resorts fit about 20-40 rooms max, if they even have such big resorts. I saw a lot of tourists staying in Semporna too but that place is rancid. 

Are we expecting to see KUL-TGG/KUA/AOR completely dropped? Or maybe the new narrobody order taking over?

[jahur 0]

1 hour ago, Craig said:

I'd have thought something like SDK/TWU-PVG/CAN or BKI-NKG/HGH, a tertiary city to a primary city but a tertiary city to another tertiary city is wow. Guess Chinese must love the seafood in Tawau/Sandakan. There aren't really major resorts in either. Most island resorts fit about 20-40 rooms max, if they even have such big resorts. I saw a lot of tourists staying in Semporna too but that place is rancid. 

Are we expecting to see KUL-TGG/KUA/AOR completely dropped? Or maybe the new narrobody order taking over?

Yes accommodation facilities at east coast Sabah is poor. So not sure how is the plan viable for airlines in the long run. For SDK there's only Four points reopening and Semporna its either overpriced tiny resorts at the sea or low budget homestays. No big chains 4-5 stars anywhere. 

The thing is FY only plans to operate bases from BKI and PEN. No mention of KUL nor SZB for the 737s. So sectors like KUL-KBR, KUL-TGG, KUL-JHB etc will either be maintained by MH or dropped with no replacement this one is up to MAG to see.

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by jahur
removed sensitive info

[flee 5]

1 hour ago, jahur said:

Yes accommodation facilities at east coast Sabah is poor. So not sure how is the plan viable for airlines in the long run. For SDK there's only Four points reopening and Semporna its either overpriced tiny resorts at the sea or low budget homestays. No big chains 4-5 stars anywhere. 

The thing is FY only plans to operate bases from BKI and PEN. No mention of KUL nor SZB for the 737s. So sectors like KUL-KBR, KUL-TGG, KUL-JHB etc will either be maintained by MH or dropped with no replacement this one is up to MAG to see.

I think MAG needs to re-strategise their Firefly operations. Right now, it is like the stepchild of MAG.

For this they need to look at how SQ group splits the businesses between SQ and TR and perhaps emulate their business model. FY should have bold plans of its own as its competitor is Capital A airlines. They should complement MH instead of getting hand me down routes to operate. They should pioneer innovative LCC routes and they should order their own aircraft and not just take MH hand me downs.

[BC Tam 2]

4 hours ago, Craig said:

I'd have thought something like SDK/TWU-PVG/CAN or BKI-NKG/HGH, a tertiary city to a primary city but a tertiary city to another tertiary city is wow

I'm guessing their very impressive rail and road networks would allow PVG, HGH and NKG to serve the whole population base in that corner of China

Plus, you would expect the traffic to be purely O&D, so interlining not needed. So might as well operate from the less busy airport, where fees should be lower 😃

[jahur 0]

2 hours ago, flee said:

I think MAG needs to re-strategise their Firefly operations. Right now, it is like the stepchild of MAG.

For this they need to look at how SQ group splits the businesses between SQ and TR and perhaps emulate their business model. FY should have bold plans of its own as its competitor is Capital A airlines. They should complement MH instead of getting hand me down routes to operate. They should pioneer innovative LCC routes and they should order their own aircraft and not just take MH hand me downs.

People have been asking MAG to go head to head with the LCC market using its subsidiaries but the problem is the market in Malaysia especially for domestic has been very cut throat. Going for basement fares for multiple months and then hiking up to crazy 200-500% when seats a scarce during peak season to make up for the poor seasons. Airlines are not flexible enough to redact seats and increase seats out of the blue based on demands nobody is also operating spare aircrafts nowadays.

It still goes back to how this country is promoting itself and improving the economy. At the current pace its heading even duopoly operations is not sustainable for both groups.

[flee 5]

2 hours ago, jahur said:

People have been asking MAG to go head to head with the LCC market using its subsidiaries but the problem is the market in Malaysia especially for domestic has been very cut throat. Going for basement fares for multiple months and then hiking up to crazy 200-500% when seats a scarce during peak season to make up for the poor seasons. Airlines are not flexible enough to redact seats and increase seats out of the blue based on demands nobody is also operating spare aircrafts nowadays.

It still goes back to how this country is promoting itself and improving the economy. At the current pace its heading even duopoly operations is not sustainable for both groups.

Well I think competing with LCCs does not only mean competing on price only. There are so many other aspects of competition that can be addressed. We see Scoot and Singapore Airlines as well as Jetstar and Qantas managing to secure their own businesses without hurting each other. As I said before, FY and MH should be complementing one another and competing in the market together in a coordinated manner. Right now FY just get thrown some crumbs from MH and does not seem to have its own development plans. This is not sustainable!

[jahur 0]

1 minute ago, flee said:

Well I think competing with LCCs does not only mean competing on price only. There are so many other aspects of competition that can be addressed. We see Scoot and Singapore Airlines as well as Jetstar and Qantas managing to secure their own businesses without hurting each other. As I said before, FY and MH should be complementing one another and competing in the market together in a coordinated manner. Right now FY just get thrown some crumbs from MH and does not seem to have its own development plans. This is not sustainable!

Well Singapore already has the upperhand when it comes to forex and currency not to mention Passenger yield as well.

If MH and FY were to do coordination yields must be there. You cant ask MH to let go half of its flights to FY on the same destination you dont even see SQ deploying flights with scoot on quite a few routes. Those were offloaded in its entirety to scoot something firefly does not even have enough aircraft to do so.

Mag currently does not have enough finances to procure proper amount of aircrafts to facilitate FY's expansion unlike our neighbors. Thai smiles was also reabsorbed back into thai airways.

Then on the transfer of flights currently even FY does not allow multi sector check in, many present pending stuff have yet to be addressed.

[flee 5]

15 hours ago, jahur said:

Well Singapore already has the upperhand when it comes to forex and currency not to mention Passenger yield as well.

If MH and FY were to do coordination yields must be there. You cant ask MH to let go half of its flights to FY on the same destination you dont even see SQ deploying flights with scoot on quite a few routes. Those were offloaded in its entirety to scoot something firefly does not even have enough aircraft to do so.

Mag currently does not have enough finances to procure proper amount of aircrafts to facilitate FY's expansion unlike our neighbors. Thai smiles was also reabsorbed back into thai airways.

Then on the transfer of flights currently even FY does not allow multi sector check in, many present pending stuff have yet to be addressed.

Therein lies the dilemma, MAG just does not have the resources to sustain a purposeful FY. If that is the case, why have it?