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Proposed merger of two airlines: Can everyone fly now?

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The rumoured merger between our national flag carrier, Malaysia Airlines Berhad (MAS), and our largest low-cost airline carrier, AirAsia Group (AirAsia), has been the talk of the town for a few weeks amid the Covid-19 pandemic.

With many airlines across the globe slumping into voluntary administration, including Virgin Australia Group (Virgin), Australia's first big corporate casualty of the pandemic, the aviation industry faces a threat of significant decline of market competition.


For instance, the falling of Virgin may prompt Qantas Airways Limited (Qantas) to arise as the only significant airline player in Australia, leading to plummeting competitive levels in Australia. The aviation market there had been previously duopolised by both Virgin and Qantas.

According to Australian authorities, swift action in enforcing competition laws will be taken by its antitrust watchdog against anti-competitive behaviour such as attempts to swamp airline routes, artificially push down prices or lock in exclusive deals with airports and suppliers in a bid to ensure that airlines are able to compete effectively as the industry rebuilds.

It is therefore clear that although the primary goal of an airline merger is to enable parties to eliminate duplicative operating costs, thereby reducing their total costs on labour, service and operations whilst maximising revenue, the after-effects of a merger involving two major competing airline titans raises far-reaching concerns.

Anti-competitive practices may tend to arise including an increase in airfares, reduction of flight frequencies and deteriorating service quality due to a lower degree of competition. This article is aimed at discussing some competition law issues which may ensue from a merger between MAS and AirAsia.

Full article here: https://www.malaymail.com/news/what-you-think/2020/05/05/proposed-merger-of-two-airlines-can-everyone-fly-now-ooi-bee-hong-and-annab/1863136

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Should enable ffp collection and interconnecting plus codeshare for domestic and international. But if it ends up like ak's no frills selection plus space flex seat no thanks. 

Edited by jahur

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From a competition point of view, if there is a merger the two airlines cannot remain as they are. Some sort of restructuring has to take place, especially in the management structure of MAG. However, the result may not be good for consumers, especially for domestic flights.

I still can't see a merger happening - it will kill both airlines!

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7 hours ago, JuliusWong said:

Too much bad blood between both......next story please.

Khazanah is still not letting go the idea... 

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11 minutes ago, flee said:

Khazanah is still not letting go the idea... 

What alternative available to MAG? For certain, none of airlines or foreign sovereign wealth fund is interested.

Khazanah should take the opportunity to close this zombie company else would just draining the resources. After the economy is recovered, could used money saved to incubate a new airlines.

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1 hour ago, KK Lee said:

What alternative available to MAG? For certain, none of airlines or foreign sovereign wealth fund is interested.

Khazanah should take the opportunity to close this zombie company else would just draining the resources. After the economy is recovered, could used money saved to incubate a new airlines.

Close it down no problem. Be sure to maintain flights and sectors and avoid killing off 50k worth of employment in the ecosystem. At the moment you cant it will involve network cut of at least 5-10 years if it were to be passed to a new airline. That's why there were thoughts on merging AAGB and MAG as it would minimise this issue.

Meanwhile Thai, Philippines and Garuda will be receiving aid from their respective govs. 

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Do the same as South Africa? 

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On 5/6/2020 at 7:52 PM, jahur said:

Close it down no problem. Be sure to maintain flights and sectors and avoid killing off 50k worth of employment in the ecosystem. At the moment you cant it will involve network cut of at least 5-10 years if it were to be passed to a new airline. That's why there were thoughts on merging AAGB and MAG as it would minimise this issue.

Meanwhile Thai, Philippines and Garuda will be receiving aid from their respective govs. 

Merger of AAGB and MAG will have a crash of corporate culture. unemployed MAG staffs could seek employment elsewhere. besides many are already on unpaid leave.

 

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On 5/7/2020 at 4:06 PM, Kenny Sing said:

important thing is the RAS has to be maintain as it is essential.

they need to approach RAS with a different mind-set. Equipment type is all wrong, (ATR72 and DHC)  .. it should be floatplanes and single engine types to really serve it's purpose. Example people in Kapit need to travel 5 hours by BOAT to reach their nearest airport in Sibu.
 

If taking Bintulu - Sibu flight, the journey to the airport (half hour) is longer than the actual flight time !

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1 hour ago, Timothy said:

they need to approach RAS with a different mind-set. Equipment type is all wrong, (ATR72 and DHC)  .. it should be floatplanes and single engine types to really serve it's purpose. 

Single engine does not work. Really buzz my mind why would anyone think of using single engine turboprop for ras with commercial pax onboard, insurance comes in mind cuz the rates of this type of planes going down is higher. Its okay if it was just flying doctors or mail goods delivery service. Even GA operators like Hornbil, Sabah Air and Layang-layang in Sabah Sarawak operates small twin engines turboprops.

Nowadays You have turbo commander, viking otters, dornier serving well in ras pax sectors and some can be converted to floaters.

Edited by jahur

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On 5/27/2020 at 1:15 PM, jahur said:

Single engine does not work. Really buzz my mind why would anyone think of using single engine turboprop for ras with commercial pax onboard, insurance comes in mind cuz the rates of this type of planes going down is higher. Its okay if it was just flying doctors or mail goods delivery service. Even GA operators like Hornbil, Sabah Air and Layang-layang in Sabah Sarawak operates small twin engines turboprops.

Nowadays You have turbo commander, viking otters, dornier serving well in ras pax sectors and some can be converted to floaters.

First and foremost, cost. Twins are more expensive up front, and more expensive to operate compared to single engine. Simply put, double the engine, double the complexity, double the fuel etc of a single engine. Anything that is subsidized will never last, so may as well get it over with and use cost effective options to get the job done. Don't "plan for the next 30 years" and build faraway airports just to cater less than 10 flights a day with planes that are too big for their purpose !

In terms of safety, have you experienced an engine failure in flight ? If not, then the chances of it happening on a single engine is the same. There's no guarantee either that the crew will know how to manage a engine failure situation in multi-engine aircraft ie: TransAsia Airways Flight 235
 

RAS should be plain and simple, like a bus ride. Pay RM100 and fly for an hour ... not the current way of compulsory pre-booking, loyalty program, moving prices ... wrong model for it's purpose.

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43 minutes ago, Timothy said:

First and foremost, cost. Twins are more expensive up front, and more expensive to operate compared to single engine. Simply put, double the engine, double the complexity, double the fuel etc of a single engine. Anything that is subsidized will never last, so may as well get it over with and use cost effective options to get the job done. Don't "plan for the next 30 years" and build faraway airports just to cater less than 10 flights a day with planes that are too big for their purpose !

In terms of safety, have you experienced an engine failure in flight ? If not, then the chances of it happening on a single engine is the same. There's no guarantee either that the crew will know how to manage a engine failure situation in multi-engine aircraft ie: TransAsia Airways Flight 235
 

RAS should be plain and simple, like a bus ride. Pay RM100 and fly for an hour ... not the current way of compulsory pre-booking, loyalty program, moving prices ... wrong model for it's purpose.

Take a look at susi air how many of their pilatus porter went down. Mas fokker, atr and otters had few cases of engine failure and they all circled back with one engine without needing to write off any frame or grand insurance payout to dead folks. If you had one engine n it fails you have to ditch. 

Ask around the crew working in GA over here nobody is keen on single engine turborprop and helicopters. So many bell 206 crew had vacated for augsta westland aw139 and aw109 even if the payrate is lower.

Even Maswings had issues recruiting crew for the viking fleet last year and had to make salaries competitive to near widebody fleet levels to keep them cause people just leave. People are scared to fly in the topography and weather in Borneo. Heck i rode on a twin engine airbus helicopter for medicine resupply and census recording in rundum and experience 2 rtbs on 2 consequtive days just because of weather. Doctors and nurses are not keen on riding it again as well. Try getting a fleet cesna grand caravan single crew rated(CAAM DOES NOT ALLOW THIS)and keep low salary. 

You want a better plan build road highways that dun screw up the flora and fauna. 

Edited by jahur

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On 5/29/2020 at 3:40 PM, jahur said:

Take a look at susi air how many of their pilatus porter went down. Mas fokker, atr and otters had few cases of engine failure and they all circled back with one engine without needing to write off any frame or grand insurance payout to dead folks. If you had one engine n it fails you have to ditch. 

Ask around the crew working in GA over here nobody is keen on single engine turborprop and helicopters. So many bell 206 crew had vacated for augsta westland aw139 and aw109 even if the payrate is lower.

Even Maswings had issues recruiting crew for the viking fleet last year and had to make salaries competitive to near widebody fleet levels to keep them cause people just leave. People are scared to fly in the topography and weather in Borneo. Heck i rode on a twin engine airbus helicopter for medicine resupply and census recording in rundum and experience 2 rtbs on 2 consequtive days just because of weather. Doctors and nurses are not keen on riding it again as well. Try getting a fleet cesna grand caravan single crew rated(CAAM DOES NOT ALLOW THIS)and keep low salary. 

You want a better plan build road highways that dun screw up the flora and fauna. 

I took your cue, and from Wiki seems Susi lost 1 PC6 during an aerial survey ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susi_Air#Incidents_and_accidents  . Susi is also operating in very remote areas with no easy access to maintenance for their equipment unlike existing RAS in Sarawak or Sabah.

I'll just circle back to my post some way up, that RAS in it's current form is too bloated and not fit for purpose. Example If I want to go from Bintulu to Kapit, it's 20 minutes RAS Bintulu - Sibu on a ATR (!!) then half hour taxi to town hoping to catch a 6 hour boat ride (without accounting for waiting time at the airport or boat, it's already 8 hours journey) ... when it should really be 40 minutes all-in from Bintulu Town (Kemena River) to Kapit Town (Rajang River) on an amphibian.

From your example, the Airbus Heli was Military yes ? I'm bringing this up because DESPITE us having subsidy for RAS we STILL use other resources to get the job done. This is an obvious case of money gone to waste. In the meantime, while Susi Air is being used as a "bad" example now, in 10 years I'm confident Indonesia will be way more connected than us because of government encouragement of the private sector.

The only way roads can be "green" is if there are built underground 😁

 

Edited by Timothy

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6 hours ago, Timothy said:

I took your cue, and from Wiki seems Susi lost 1 PC6 during an aerial survey ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susi_Air#Incidents_and_accidents  . Susi is also operating in very remote areas with no easy access to maintenance for their equipment unlike existing RAS in Sarawak or Sabah.

From your example, the Airbus Heli was Military yes ? I'm bringing this up because DESPITE us having subsidy for RAS we STILL use other resources to get the job done. This is an obvious case of money gone to waste. In the meantime, while Susi Air is being used as a "bad" example now, in 10 years I'm confident Indonesia will be way more connected than us because of government encouragement of the private sector.

The only way roads can be "green" is if there are built underground 😁

 

Nope it was an EC-145 and one filipino registered EC-135. And note the rtb rate was very bad the rural folks were complaining. There was talk to relocate them more towards Keningau where there is medical and logistic access and less wastefull for state funds.  Many of them refused. All preferring to stay in Pensiangan. It is also noted majority of them refused to open up and take some entrepreneur based job. Kids also refusing to take up education. Rm200 book voucher given, instead they buy loads of cigarettes packs. Teachers sent in all giving up. Yet if we abandon them they wont vote for state and start complaining on human rights issue. This is the issue were having with majority of the rural community.

More towards east, Kinabatangan highway was one projects being halted because of green group complaining. People residing there are pissed and guess how many elephants were poisoned and orang utans beaten up in east Sabah annually by oil palm workers and farmers.

I would also prefer a balanced synergy with minimum wastage but as of now both operation requirement and financial sustainability is just isn't there. Indonesia itself susi air is unable to recruit locals most of them are expats all the horror stories we hear from the crew working over there. You'd be shock how Directorate General of Civil Aviation indonesia functions even with all the ample improvements they made post 2014 and note now our very own CAM is also being downgraded for an abundunce of issue relating to lack of manpower and oversight.

Edited by jahur

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22 hours ago, Timothy said:

I took your cue, and from Wiki seems Susi lost 1 PC6 during an aerial survey ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susi_Air#Incidents_and_accidents  . Susi is also operating in very remote areas with no easy access to maintenance for their equipment unlike existing RAS in Sarawak or Sabah.

I'll just circle back to my post some way up, that RAS in it's current form is too bloated and not fit for purpose. Example If I want to go from Bintulu to Kapit, it's 20 minutes RAS Bintulu - Sibu on a ATR (!!) then half hour taxi to town hoping to catch a 6 hour boat ride (without accounting for waiting time at the airport or boat, it's already 8 hours journey) ... when it should really be 40 minutes all-in from Bintulu Town (Kemena River) to Kapit Town (Rajang River) on an amphibian.

From your example, the Airbus Heli was Military yes ? I'm bringing this up because DESPITE us having subsidy for RAS we STILL use other resources to get the job done. This is an obvious case of money gone to waste. In the meantime, while Susi Air is being used as a "bad" example now, in 10 years I'm confident Indonesia will be way more connected than us because of government encouragement of the private sector.

The only way roads can be "green" is if there are built underground 😁

 

Hi Timoty,

I had been in the GA for quite sometime, and I would have to disagree for MW to operate Single Engines (SE) aircraft. Example of local SE crashes due to engine failures: 

1.  Transmile Air Cessna 208 9M-PMN: crashed at the end of runway due engine failure. 1995 tawau,  just before the F50 case...

2. Our Air Force Lost 22 trainers all SEs ranging from PC7, mb339am/cm, hawk108/208s. And at least 30% to 40% to them were lost due to engine failures. Fair example will be 1992,1993, 2001 & 2006 (PC7 turboprops) crashes, most of them made emergency landings on paddy fields/football fields.

Mb339 trainers (SE Jet): 1996, 2002 & 2016 as far as i know all 3 crashed due engine failures. Even our mig29 female pilot, ( when she was flying the MB339 ) declared mayday once due to an engine failure. But manage to restart the engine just before going under.

HAWK108/208: 9 jets lost. I believe around 3/4 due to engine failures. 1996 in particular. The rest most probably due g-loc or other problems.

3. HMA flying school: 2008 swamp area. 2007 sea near pulau aman. Another one @ runway treshold... all 3 due to engine failures.

4. MFA flying school: 2 crashes in 2013 alone 1 beside a condo another one strait of melaka.

5. Royal selangor flying club: batu caves 2014 and many many many more. Its a common thing and LARGLY acceptable in the GA or airforce world. It is also a common understanding that if you are operating a fleet of SE aircraft you WILL. And i am stressing this, you WILL lose at least 10% to 40% of your aircraft due to engine failures alone. Thats a calculated risk GA will take. BUT NOT FOR AN AIRLINE. 

And in MW case flying deep into the sarawak jungle with SE is a no no. No civilian pilot will take that risk. Maybe in america or south america or indon, maybe some daredevils will. Even flybe and that British Airways subsidary operate Twin Otters for RAS... many indonesian GA companies opt to fly Twin otters too especially in kalimantan, one of them is airfast 😊 and i know a few more.

Just my 2 cents..

 

Edited by Guest

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Guest

Its a common understanding that if you are operating a fleet of SE aircraft you WILL. And i am stressing this, you WILL lose at least 10% to 40% of your aircraft. Thats a calculated risk GA will take. BUT NOT FOR AN AIRLINE. 

I believe i will have to stress this out

Edited by Guest

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10 minutes ago, Silverfly07 said:

Its a common understanding that if you are operating a fleet of SE aircraft you WILL. And i am stressing this, you WILL lose at least 10% to 40% of your aircraft. Thats a calculated risk GA will take. BUT NOT FOR AN AIRLINE. 

I believe i will have to stress this out

I think TImothy was also checking on the viability of float aircrafts. As some rural airfield stations are too far from the nearest village in Sarawak. Believe Otters fitted with floats have been studied years ago but kind of forgotten the outcome provided by DCA and state gov. And yes the floaters will have to be 2 engined. 

Edited by jahur

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20 minutes ago, jahur said:

I think TImothy was also checking on the viability of float aircrafts. As some rural airfield stations are too far from the nearest village in Sarawak. Believe Otters fitted with floats have been studied years ago but kind of forgotten the outcome provided by DCA and state gov. And yes the floaters will have to be 2 engined. 

Float planes are great. But the maintenance cost will sky rocket. Unless we charge expensive tickets like maldivian air taxi or highly subsidised by gov. And the number of "water airfields" or "water ports" mw need to serve is only how many? How to explain bario ops etc... then we need to open miri harbour ops and airport ops? Float planes, too expensive. I dont think so. Since you mentioned u flew in the ec145...  I believe you were with sabah air before?

What happened to their bell206 with floats aka amphibian bell206? Still alive? I remember they used it for sipadan & island transfer ops?

Edited by Guest

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1 minute ago, Silverfly07 said:

Float planes are great. But the maintenance cost will sky rocket. Unless we charge expensive tickets like maldivian air taxi or highly subsidised by gov. And the number of "water airfields" or "water ports" mw need to serve is only how many? How to explain bario ops etc... then we need to open miri harbour ops and airport ops? Float planes, too expensive. I dont think so. Since you mentioned u flew in the ec145...  I believe you were with sabah air before?

What happened to their bell206 with floats aka amphibian bell206? Still alive?

Those float 206 were only used once in 2014 and 2015 😆. Both used for Natgeo filming. Infact even the non amphibious bell 206s have also been sitting idling along with one broken wreckage 206 from a previous crash incident. Sat on b206 once i don't want to sit on it again AS355 still okay with 20knot wind. 

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I once planned a cessna 172 flight from KK to tawau for a GA co. Not flying it but just doing the flight planning. The general advice was don't plan to fly direct. Fly via coastal to kudat, sandakan, lahad datu then tawau. Reason being, in case of an engine failure you have somewhere to ditch. I was like erm, we do have kampongs to ditch on the way right? According to the pilot its still risky. Just a Slight weather deviation will bring you into the deep unfamiliar forest or rivers. Different ball game in west malaysia, where you have plenty of paddy fields or highways to aim for..

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8 minutes ago, jahur said:

Those float 206 were only used once in 2014 and 2015 😆. Both used for Natgeo filming. Infact even the non amphibious bell 206s have also been sitting idling along with one broken wreckage 206 from a previous crash incident. Sat on b206 once i don't want to sit on it again AS355 still okay with 20knot wind. 

Haha thats just sad. I dont think they have the capability to use it really. Back here in subang for around a year or two... and as far as i can remember, Maritim malaysia dont have the cash to maintain their x2 bombardier cl415 float planes. Hence they were stored for quite a while. It was in the news, now ok la. Nah, float planes wont cut it. Operating cost too high.

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4 minutes ago, Silverfly07 said:

Haha thats just sad. I dont think they have the capability to use it really. Back here in subang for around a year or two... and as far as i can remember, Maritim malaysia dont have the cash to maintain their x2 bombardier cl415 float planes. Hence they were stored for quite a while. It was in the news, now ok la. Nah, float planes wont cut it. Operating cost too high.

Discovery Channel Asia actually went scouting years back. They requested for the AS355 but the 2 AS355 were fully utilised for the Medevec and consensus tracking. The Bell 206 on the other hand could not mount the heavy 75mm and 35mm digital 3d cams for aerial filming. Asked for fix wing aircraft we only have antique Nomad available while the Kingair is already fully booked in Semenanjung aerial survey. Believe it is also the same issue with next door Layang-Layang.

Sometimes you wonder our own local GAs are quite inept to provide to foreign charters. Prc tycoons coming in to office with a bag filled with nearly Rm30k cash requesting immediate ferry flight from kk to Sepilok and then towards maliau basin reserve for some holiday. But when you look at the hangar there's no suitable equipment available. Quite incontrast with hornbill skyways in Sarawak where they have a lot of proper equipment up and ready for deployment.

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Ahh Bell 206. Cant do much with it, 3 pax on board with very restricted payload. And again being single engined. I believe Sabah air and hornbill lost quite a number of them easily more than x6 bell 206 lost in east malaysia. Including the deadly hornbill 206 long ranger. Ohhh, that one was particularly gruesome... with bodies mutilated. I will never forget that accident. I believe right after that, hornbill opted & invested for more twin engined eurocopters 135s and 155 and reduced bell206 dependency. A quick check I can see they are now flying x5 twin engine Airbus 135 x1 Airbus 155... with a few remaining bell206s. Damn hornbill must be loaded.

Edited by Guest

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