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flee

Covid-19: Airlines seek emergency aid as coronavirus brings industry to near-halt

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Mexico's Interjet which has been financially limping before COVID-19 has halted its international flight since 24th March 2020. They are sending their fleet over to US for storage. 

Airbus A320     -251N     7523          XA-JRM     Interjet     ferried 24mar20 CUN-TUS-GYR on return to lessor (+ 7576 XA-APO MEX-TUS-GYR)     ex F-WWBC
Airbus A320     -251N     7581          XA-APA     Interjet     ferried 26mar20 MEX-TUS-GYR on return to lessor     ex F-WWIC
Airbus A320     -251N     8970          XA-WJS     Interjet     ferried 19mar20 MEX-TLC-SJO on return to lessor (+ 9056 XA-ARG TLC-SJO)     ex F-WWBM
Airbus A320     -214     1162          XA-INJ     Interjet     ferried 24mar20 GDL-TUS-GYR on return to lessor (+ 3690 XA-ABC CUN-TUS-GYR)     ex F-WQUV
Airbus A321     -211     7879          XA-TEA     Interjet     ferried 26mar20 MEX-TUS-GYR on return to lessor     ex D-AVZR
Airbus A321     -251N     7986          XA-MAP     Interjet     ferried 25mar20 MEX-TUS-GYR on return to lessor (+ 8023 XA-VMM, + 8575 XA-PGA)     ex D-AVYM
Source: https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb.main?LC=nav4&page=1

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On 3/24/2020 at 12:38 AM, flee said:

With financially sound airlines like SIA needing govt. aid, what about financial basket cases like MAG? 

Should the Malaysian govt. save it or let it go? Several months ago, MAVCOM concluded that we have overcapacity in the Malaysian market. Surely, it would be foolish for the govt. to help all the airlines without some very strict and painful terms and conditions. There is no point helping them if all they do is burn the money competing against one another. How can the govt. solve this conundrum?

Interesting to see what MoT/MoF/MITI intends to recommend and what the cabinet decides...

And who gets the last laugh when there's no competition? The Malaysian public?

On 3/25/2020 at 3:44 AM, flee said:

I think that the UK chancellor is operating on sound business principles.

Can't always be profit kept by owners and cronies, losses borne by taxpayers (via government bailouts).

If they have not got enough finance, they should downsize or close shop!

Where do you think all that money would end up if it weren't used for saving the airlines? A new hospital that's built by the most competent contractor through a clean and transparent tender process?

Let's get real. This is Malaysia.

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3 hours ago, Chris Tan said:

And who gets the last laugh when there's no competition? The Malaysian public?

Surely, it would be foolish for the govt. to help all the airlines without some very strict and painful terms and conditions. 

3 hours ago, Chris Tan said:

Where do you think all that money would end up if it weren't used for saving the airlines? A new hospital that's built by the most competent contractor through a clean and transparent tender process?

Let's get real. This is Malaysia.

My comment was in relation to the BBC report and the UK (i.e. BA/IAG, Virgin) airlines. The British public are not very happy with them, especially Virgin.

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15 hours ago, flee said:

I was just talking about the industry and using some companies as illustrations/examples. Aviation is both a capital and labour intensive industry. It is highly regulated. It is not something that private enterprise alone can handle. Companies like Boeing cannot just tell the govt. to piss off in good times and come begging for bailouts in bad times.

As for employees, they will know that they are working in a world that is cyclical and there will be good times and bad times. So good personal financial management should be practiced. Most of us know that the cycle of boom and bust takes place approximately every 10-15 years. So it would be good financial planning to spend according to your means, not over borrow, and set aside something for a rainy day.

China is different because their business models are different and have different objectives to fulfill - so they will make decisions based on their agenda.

Would the bad times include repossession of property and assets by the banks? The poor will Gulung tikar towards the coffin would be the best move as many Developed country in the west have been doing it for every economic downturn. Not everyone can have savings for rainy days in this kind of competitive environment. There's no middle ground.

Edited by jahur

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2 minutes ago, jahur said:

Would the bad times include repossession of property and assets by the banks? The poor will Gulung tikar towards the coffin would be the best move as many Developed in the west have been doing it for every economic downturn. Not everyone can have savings for rainy days in this kind of competitive environment.

My original comments were in relation to the BBC report and the UK chancellor not favouring bailing out British airlines. However, the UK chancellor has since announced many measures to help people in need.

Singapore also announced more aid packages yesterday.

As for Malaysia, various measures have been announced the past week and more will be announced by the PM today.

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Malaysia’s Passenger Traffic Forecasted to Contract Between 36.2 and 38.1 Per Cent in 2020 due to COVID-19

Clarity of policy objectives and exercise of good governance crucial for Government in determining any financial assistance for airlines

https://www.mavcom.my/en/2020/03/27/malaysias-passenger-traffic-forecasted-to-contract-between-36-2-and-38-1-per-cent-in-2020-due-to-covid-19/

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Coronavirus: European, US travellers scramble for flights as Asia’s key transit hubs close

  • The two major transit hubs have joined Taiwan and Malaysia in banning short-term visitors as governments seek to curb the spread of Covid-19
  • Passenger numbers have dramatically fallen across the region as the likes of Cathay Pacific and Singapore Airlines cut services to just 4 per cent

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/economics/article/3077252/coronavirus-european-us-travellers-scramble-flights-asias-key

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Royal Brunei Airlines B787 V8-DLC is currently on Cairo ground to bring back Bruneians, and Malaysians stuck at Egypt. This marks BI's one-off return to CAI where they used to fly their B76ER in 1993, until termination in 1995.

Meanwhile 162 Malaysians were brought back from Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam on 26th March 2020 using special chartered flight using MH A330-323X 9M-MTK did the honor.

https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia/2020/03/27/govt-to-bring-home-51-malaysians-stranded-in-cairo-with-help-from-brunei/1850766

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/9m-mtk

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/v8-dlc

9M-MTK.PNG

V8-DLC.PNG

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MAB/MH is a zoombie company by any definition, gomen should take the opportunity to wind it up, so resources could be relocated for better use, not that OD or AK couldn't substitute MH's role. 

 

Edited by KK Lee

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2 hours ago, KK Lee said:

MAB/MH is a zoombie company by any definition, gomen should take the opportunity to wind it up, so resources could be relocated for better use, not that OD or AK couldn't substitute MH's role. 

The government will not let MH wound up because it is the only local airlines that is certified to carry stretcher and host of other special missions which Malindo and AirAsia are not certified or could not be bothered to attain such certifications. And no, I think many of us won't want AK to dominate the local and international routes. AirAsia will need to get their house in order first prior to dabbling with MH. Malindo maybe register their first profit?? 

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8 hours ago, JuliusWong said:

Royal Brunei Airlines B787 V8-DLC is currently on Cairo ground to bring back Bruneians, and Malaysians stuck at Egypt. This marks BI's one-off return to CAI where they used to fly their B76ER in 1993, until termination in 1995.

Meanwhile 162 Malaysians were brought back from Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam on 26th March 2020 using special chartered flight using MH A330-323X 9M-MTK did the honor.

https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia/2020/03/27/govt-to-bring-home-51-malaysians-stranded-in-cairo-with-help-from-brunei/1850766

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/9m-mtk

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/v8-dlc

9M-MTK.PNG

V8-DLC.PNG

Two flights in total. V8-DLC and V8-DLD. Was told Malaysians was on the second flight.

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3 hours ago, JuliusWong said:

The government will not let MH wound up because it is the only local airlines that is certified to carry stretcher and host of other special missions which Malindo and AirAsia are not certified or could not be bothered to attain such certifications. And no, I think many of us won't want AK to dominate the local and international routes. AirAsia will need to get their house in order first prior to dabbling with MH. Malindo maybe register their first profit?? 

How often stretcher and special missions are needed? If gomen want, could make this a condition for AOC renewal. OD is a private enterprise, couldn't sustain without operation profit. It is likely, OD is paying high lease to parents company. To encourage competition, gomen could encourage and approve another aoc. If there is money to be made, for certain some will apply for AOC.

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13 hours ago, KK Lee said:

MAB/MH is a zoombie company by any definition, gomen should take the opportunity to wind it up, so resources could be relocated for better use, not that OD or AK couldn't substitute MH's role. 

 

I didn't know AK interline with other carriers or OD flies nonstop to AU (except PER)/NZ/JP/KR. FFS, they don't even fly to Shanghai, Beijing with a miserable daily to HKG. Sure they have a lot of flights to the Indian subcontinent, but don't forget that OD is partially owned by an Indonesian company. 

You want foreign airlines to resume flying to KUL? You need MH. Who else is going to transfer pax from KUL to other cities in Malaysia and beyond? OD can't fulfill that role. AK obviously can't. 

And who is going to fly cargo between East and West Malaysia (and also regionally)? Why do you think MH is flying a daily A333 to HKG now even though both countries has sealed off borders to non-residents?

7 hours ago, KK Lee said:

OD is a private enterprise, couldn't sustain without operation profit. It is likely, OD is paying high lease to parents company. To encourage competition, gomen could encourage and approve another aoc. If there is money to be made, for certain some will apply for AOC.

Could never think of a better time to start an airline tbh :) I'd like you to show me OD's profit too :)

Edited by Craig

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9 hours ago, KK Lee said:

How often stretcher and special missions are needed? If gomen want, could make this a condition for AOC renewal. OD is a private enterprise, couldn't sustain without operation profit. It is likely, OD is paying high lease to parents company. To encourage competition, gomen could encourage and approve another aoc. If there is money to be made, for certain some will apply for AOC.

They did that. No one came forward. They even port it towards GA operators like Sabah Air and Hornbil. Problem? We dont have big aircrafts with proper range and no one wants to cash in for asset procurement and training. Airasia knew the problem and chose not to dig itself in deep red for it. AirAsia will only do it if its commercially viable.

During my days in Sabah Air state cant even do a proper Medevec contract with us and the weather around here(Boarded thrice and had 2 rtb because of the weather) makes u think twice about going deep into the rural area. Is the same for Nepal helicopter operators in Himalaya using very underpowered AS350 which is very unsuitable for rescue operations at like 15000feet above. There are more powerful helicopters better equipped but nobody wants to invest in them in lukla. 

OD was built just to disrupt Ak to Lion to operate without haste in Indonesia with an additional market tap into europe using widebody(Failed thanks to better market opportunity in Thailand). In the early days Lion approached MAB to to open a side venture but it failed Lion was not a proper FSC and even Malindo today. Lion ceo then met with few msian gov official some say ol Najib gave the go ahead as well and came out Malindo with the idea of more competition equal better options for consumers while bleeding Lions cash balance just to keep Airasia pressured in Indonesia from overexpanding on all fronts.

Edited by jahur

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12 hours ago, KK Lee said:

How often stretcher and special missions are needed? If gomen want, could make this a condition for AOC renewal. OD is a private enterprise, couldn't sustain without operation profit. It is likely, OD is paying high lease to parents company. To encourage competition, gomen could encourage and approve another aoc. If there is money to be made, for certain some will apply for AOC.

I can't believe what I just read. The three airlines in Malaysia now are bleeding money, and you are suggesting the government to throw out another AOC?? 

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I believe that Covid-19 will change Malaysian aviation - it is simply unsustainable to have all this competition that is slowly killing all airlines in the industry. It is a big waste of money, especially since money for MAG is public money. The govt. clearly cannot afford to throw money at MAG anymore. Khazanah has more viable investments for its funds and after 20+ years of turnaround plans for the national airline, a new strategy is sorely needed.

Edited by flee

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21 hours ago, Al Khaymi said:

Two flights in total. V8-DLC and V8-DLD. Was told Malaysians was on the second flight.

Missed this one out. V8-DLD landed on 27th March 2020, ahead of V8-DLC landed on 28th March 2020.

Malaysians should be one the second flight on board V8-DLC which landed yesterday 28th March 2020 at 9:05pm Brunei time.

Malaysia Government also dispatched Weststar B767-238ER (BBJ) to bring back 18 Malaysians trapped at Maldives, arriving earlier this morning. These folks are so lucky! 18 pax in a widebody! Ex-Google VIP jet.

https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2020/03/29/18-malaysians-stranded-in-maldives-return-home/

v8-dld.PNG

7622.PNG

762.PNG

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2 hours ago, JuliusWong said:

Malaysia Government also dispatched Weststar B767-238ER (BBJ) to bring back 18 Malaysians trapped at Maldives, arriving earlier this morning. These folks are so lucky! 18 pax in a widebody! Ex-Google VIP jet.

Is this BBJ owned/leased by a Malaysian? Seems to be spotted around SZB/LGK quite often based on historical photos (and very odd that a repatriation flight landed in SZB).

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16 hours ago, Craig said:

I didn't know AK interline with other carriers or OD flies nonstop to AU (except PER)/NZ/JP/KR. FFS, they don't even fly to Shanghai, Beijing with a miserable daily to HKG. Sure they have a lot of flights to the Indian subcontinent, but don't forget that OD is partially owned by an Indonesian company. 

You want foreign airlines to resume flying to KUL? You need MH. Who else is going to transfer pax from KUL to other cities in Malaysia and beyond? OD can't fulfill that role. AK obviously can't. 

And who is going to fly cargo between East and West Malaysia (and also regionally)? Why do you think MH is flying a daily A333 to HKG now even though both countries has sealed off borders to non-residents?

Could never think of a better time to start an airline tbh :) I'd like you to show me OD's profit too :)

If financially feasible, other will step in. MH is a failure and will continue to drain valuable resources.

14 hours ago, jahur said:

They did that. No one came forward. They even port it towards GA operators like Sabah Air and Hornbil. Problem? We dont have big aircrafts with proper range and no one wants to cash in for asset procurement and training. Airasia knew the problem and chose not to dig itself in deep red for it. AirAsia will only do it if its commercially viable.

During my days in Sabah Air state cant even do a proper Medevec contract with us and the weather around here(Boarded thrice and had 2 rtb because of the weather) makes u think twice about going deep into the rural area. Is the same for Nepal helicopter operators in Himalaya using very underpowered AS350 which is very unsuitable for rescue operations at like 15000feet above. There are more powerful helicopters better equipped but nobody wants to invest in them in lukla. 

OD was built just to disrupt Ak to Lion to operate without haste in Indonesia with an additional market tap into europe using widebody(Failed thanks to better market opportunity in Thailand). In the early days Lion approached MAB to to open a side venture but it failed Lion was not a proper FSC and even Malindo today. Lion ceo then met with few msian gov official some say ol Najib gave the go ahead as well and came out Malindo with the idea of more competition equal better options for consumers while bleeding Lions cash balance just to keep Airasia pressured in Indonesia from overexpanding on all fronts.

Taxpayers have been subsidizing MAB for RM800m p.a for last few years. Money saved for certain more than enough to contract Medevec.

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