Mohd Suhaimi Fariz 2 Report post Posted June 18, 2019 IAG orders 200 737MAX. https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2019-06-18-International-Airlines-Group-Announces-Intent-to-Buy-200-Boeing-737-MAX-Airplanes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ja Singh 2 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 Clearly you haven’t been following the news. It’s known fact that the MAX has design error. Don’t get me started on the MCAS. The FAA was so dysfunctional that they allow Boeing to do whatever they want, literally no choice. Ever since the second crash, the government stepped in and sacked the FAA director and replaced it with a retired Delta pilot. Was the FAA or the government being dysfunctional? You're right there. The most concerning design flaw is is due to the big engines and their higher position,the plane tends to pitch up on take off,and to make matters worst the nacelles then tend to work "as a wing" and give the plane "a lift effect", And the lift they produce is well ahead of the wing’s center of lift, meaning the nacelles will cause the 737 Max at a high angle of attack to go to a even "higher angle of attack". Hence the nacelles makes a bad problem worse. It will be interesting to see if the max 10 doesn't inherit this characteristics as it will have a longer fuselage,perhaps, hopefully? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris Tan 0 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 It will be interesting to see if the max 10 doesn't inherit this characteristics as it will have a longer fuselage,perhaps, hopefully?Guess we'll have to wait for the next article to become experts on the Max 10! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mushrif A 3 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 IAG orders 200 737MAX. https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2019-06-18-International-Airlines-Group-Announces-Intent-to-Buy-200-Boeing-737-MAX-Airplanes No it didnt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mohd Suhaimi Fariz 2 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 No it didnt. IAG LoIs have a high chance of turning into an order. Argue all you like, but they wouldn't even be thinking about an LoI if they're not convinced about the MAX. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ja Singh 2 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) You should forward your concerns to Boeing and industry leaders. These CEOs need to know the truth! "Guess we'll have to wait for the next article to become experts on the Max 10!" Klia seems to be sliding lower and lower as years go past by on world airport ranking.What are some of the basic ideas that can be implemented for passengers to improve the services.posted by ja singh Chris Tan responded Posted 09 April 2019 - 02:34 AM 1) Place a gigantic teddy bear in the middle of the MTB2) Convert the little patch of rainforest in the centre of the Satellite into a massive waterfall 3) Upholster the benches with Nappa leather 4) Turn the roof of the Satellite into a huge hibiscus garden to showcase our national pride. 5) Replace that wretched aerotrain system with a maglev rail line. 6) Quadruple the PSC so we can beat Singapore in taxes, too. Any other ideas? Hey Chris,well at least I read meaningful publications/articles on aviation and not throw empty bullets/personal attacks at other, like as per your comment/s above to me.And by the way the Boeing CEO did apologize in the end,much later albeit.The problem was that he knew the concerns all along from day 1 ,just you didn't,hence why you asked me to forward the concerns to him.But wasn't me who told him.lol https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/06/we-are-very-sorry-boeing-ceo-apologizes-for-737-max-deaths/ Edited June 19, 2019 by Ja Singh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ja Singh 2 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) It will be interesting to see if the max 10 doesn't inherit this characteristics as it will have a longer fuselage,perhaps, hopefully? Guess we'll have to wait for the next article to become experts on the Max 10! Hopefully you too will do some meaning full reading too.. Edited June 19, 2019 by Ja Singh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jahur 0 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 When Airbus released the sidestick with dual input design nobody in the public yapps about it and is still a problem up to this date.. When atr designed a too simple anti ice system nobody yapps about it too until it was too late. The a330 was designed in a way of of uncomfortable steep nose up approaches, a lot crews were complaining but nobody in the industry yapp about it as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mohd Suhaimi Fariz 2 Report post Posted June 19, 2019 When Airbus released the sidestick with dual input design nobody in the public yapps about it and is still a problem up to this date.. When atr designed a too simple anti ice system nobody yapps about it too until it was too late. The a330 was designed in a way of of uncomfortable steep nose up approaches, a lot crews were complaining but nobody in the industry yapp about it as well. Because it wasn't an inherent danger. It didn't make the aircraft inherently unairworthy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KK Lee 5 Report post Posted June 26, 2019 FAA Finds New Risk on 737 Max and Orders Boeing to Make Change https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-26/faa-finds-new-risk-on-737-max-and-orders-boeing-to-make-changes?srnd=premium-asia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KK Lee 5 Report post Posted June 27, 2019 Long before the Max disasters, Boeing had a history of failing to fix safety problems https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/long-before-the-max-disasters-boeing-had-a-history-of-failing-to-fix-safety-problems/2019/06/26/b4f5f720-86ee-11e9-a870-b9c411dc4312_story.html?utm_term=.8561ce60655a Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Waiping 12 Report post Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) Another bad press for Boeing and this time involves US's strong ally and neighbour. Apparently this is big news there. Boeing falsified records for 787 jet sold to Air Canada. It developed a fuel leak https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/boeing-air-canada-jet-fuel-leak-1.5193550 Edited June 28, 2019 by Waiping Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Craig 0 Report post Posted June 29, 2019 For those who are championing to review contracts on a constant basis to ensure that MH gets the lowest possible cost, here's an article for you Boeing's 737 Max Software Outsourced to $9-an-Hour Engineers It remains the mystery at the heart of Boeing Co.’s 737 Max crisis: how a company renowned for meticulous design made seemingly basic software mistakes leading to a pair of deadly crashes. Longtime Boeing engineers say the effort was complicated by a push to outsource work to lower-paid contractors. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mohd Suhaimi Fariz 2 Report post Posted July 1, 2019 For those who are championing to review contracts on a constant basis to ensure that MH gets the lowest possible cost, here's an article for you Boeing's 737 Max Software Outsourced to $9-an-Hour Engineers But is $9 an hour engineer in India a poor quality compared to a $40 an hour engineer in America? Differing salary levels isn't a barometer for quality to be honest... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Waiping 12 Report post Posted July 1, 2019 Maybe yes, remember our national day logo debacle? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Craig 0 Report post Posted July 1, 2019 But is $9 an hour engineer in India a poor quality compared to a $40 an hour engineer in America? Differing salary levels isn't a barometer for quality to be honest... I agree that different salary levels isn't a barometer, but in this case, they were trying to reduce cost (for more profits to please Wall Street, who knows?) and Boeing subcontracted their coding to another company. From Bloomberg's article: Increasingly, the iconic American planemaker and its subcontractors have relied on temporary workers making as little as $9 an hour to develop and test software, often from countries lacking a deep background in aerospace -- notably India. [...] The coders from HCL were typically designing to specifications set by Boeing. Still, “it was controversial because it was far less efficient than Boeing engineers just writing the code,” Rabin said. Frequently, he recalled, “it took many rounds going back and forth because the code was not done correctly.” I am sure Boeing engineers are able to code it properly (as they have for the past few decades) but getting lower cost coders seems a little bit too enticing. I'll give Boeing the benefit of the doubt that they assumed that the work of an outsourced coder and a Boeing coder are the same but it didn't turn out that way. Sometimes getting the lowest cost possible doesn't do great things for the company. Penny wise, pound foolish? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flee 5 Report post Posted July 1, 2019 But is $9 an hour engineer in India a poor quality compared to a $40 an hour engineer in America? Differing salary levels isn't a barometer for quality to be honest... Yes, it may look like low cost in the US but in India, it is a good pay rate. Quality does not only depend on the work of the software engineer - quality control/assurance procedures in place at Boeing must also be robust to ensure consistent and high quality work is carried out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jahur 0 Report post Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) A321neo operators alerted over 'excessive pitch' anomalyhttps://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/a321neo-operators-alerted-over-excessive-pitch-ano-459718/Probably time for manufacturers to stop squeezing in too many seats and stretching the fuselage on narrowbody. Am sure the superstrecthed max 10 or ryanair's max200 will be bound by even more problems. Edited July 18, 2019 by jahur Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BC Tam 2 Report post Posted July 19, 2019 Boeing takes $5bn hit over grounding of 737 Max from: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49026285 Big businesses will involve big sums of money I suppose Does it mean 42 planes are still rolling off the production line monthly ? If so, there must be hundreds of new build undelivered examples about already, in desert storage presumably - what a sight that would be Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JuliusWong 0 Report post Posted July 19, 2019 Boeing takes $5bn hit over grounding of 737 Max from: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49026285 Big businesses will involve big sums of money I suppose Does it mean 42 planes are still rolling off the production line monthly ? If so, there must be hundreds of new build undelivered examples about already, in desert storage presumably - what a sight that would be Yes, they are still making B737max even though it has been grounded by authorities. Stopping production abruptly will have devastating effect on their suppliers. Many of those finished or partially finished aircraft are parked at parking lots. Few have been flown under special permit by FAA to deserts of designated airport airport for storage. Boeing is cash rich, USD 5 billion is like peanut for them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flee 5 Report post Posted July 19, 2019 The final cost will be more than a clean sheet design for a B737 replacement. Boeing was penny wise, pound foolish. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jahur 0 Report post Posted July 19, 2019 (edited) The final cost will be more than a clean sheet design for a B737 replacement. Boeing was penny wise, pound foolish.There:s no more redesigning available the 737max, it has been pushed to the absolute limit. Infact the 737ng was already pushing it over the stable frame 733s to 735s. The 737ng was lucky it had less power hungry engines as it carries less passengers and less range. Design requirements to cater airlines bean counter demand would mean Boeing has to dump the 737 and come up with an entirely different narrowbody plane with taller sturdier landing gears. Cheaper fix would be to put a lower bypass engines but then boeing would already lose its narrowbody sales if they implement this airlines cant squeeze no more extra seats or range with this. Putting up stable bug free automation to keep the "super long narrow fuselage and super small wings with big ass engines" plane stable is not a long term fix. So pretty much boeing is screwed at the moment. On another look the a321neo are also at risk now even though they are fitted with taller landing gears and the engines are not angled upwards the plane has a tendency to nose up as well. You would wonder if all this stretched fuselage airframes are really stable enough to handle the new gen engines with such narrow wings installed. Edited July 19, 2019 by jahur Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flee 5 Report post Posted July 19, 2019 I think the A321Neo's problem isn't that great because the plane is already 100% FBW. The B737 Max is not a FBW airframe and therein lies their problem - whatever MCAS is, it isn't fully integrated to the overall scheme of things. So it is a patch of a patch of a patch! Flying inherently unstable FBW aircraft isn't something new. The principle was already tried and tested in many combat aircraft like the F-117, etc. It is easy to program the FBW algorithms to provide stable flight if you knew that the aircraft is unstable from the very beginning. I am sure that Airbus are already working on modifying the A320Neo's FBW system if they see a need for that. Boeing panicked when Airbus launched the A320 Neo. Most of that has to do with greed - the then management took very fat bonuses due to the Max sales success. Had they gone ahead with development of a B737 successor then, they would have to put that bonus money into development costs for the new narrow body. Looks like the present management team with have to pay for the Max fix PLUS the development of the NSA. No more big bonuses for them! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jahur 0 Report post Posted July 19, 2019 (edited) I think the A321Neo's problem isn't that great because the plane is already 100% FBW. The B737 Max is not a FBW airframe and therein lies their problem - whatever MCAS is, it isn't fully integrated to the overall scheme of things. So it is a patch of a patch of a patch! Flying inherently unstable FBW aircraft isn't something new. The principle was already tried and tested in many combat aircraft like the F-117, etc. It is easy to program the FBW algorithms to provide stable flight if you knew that the aircraft is unstable from the very beginning. I am sure that Airbus are already working on modifying the A320Neo's FBW system if they see a need for that. Boeing panicked when Airbus launched the A320 Neo. Most of that has to do with greed - the then management took very fat bonuses due to the Max sales success. Had they gone ahead with development of a B737 successor then, they would have to put that bonus money into development costs for the new narrow body. Looks like the present management team with have to pay for the Max fix PLUS the development of the NSA. No more big bonuses for them! An excessive pitch up characteristic when putting high thrust power should not have occurred on any commercial plane even with aid by Fly by wire. This is something you should only see on GA or military flying. You dont see that behaviour on the a380 or b777s. Edited July 19, 2019 by jahur Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BC Tam 2 Report post Posted July 25, 2019 Boeing warns it may stop 737 Max production from: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49108807 Could things be about to go pop ?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
