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Ja Singh

MH 737 max 8 poll

cancel max 8 order  

53 members have voted

  1. 1. should MH switch its order to A320 neo

    • maintain current frame order of Max
    • convert current max frames to 787/777/797 & switch to n/b order to A320neo


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Although "only" 2 crashed, they did so in relation with very few total flying hours for the type. That is abnormal and that is why we see them grounded.

 

Boeing's quick action to cut production and the airlines' revising their flight schedules beyond May/June may indicate that this problem will take some time to be fixed. Boeing will be wise to ensure that the problem is fixed once and for all.

If second sensor is not wired to mcas computer, Boeing needs time to design, produce and rewire both in production and delivered aircrafts.

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From the way FM taped up their 737 max 8 at sha; they expect a long grounding.

sorry lee did not understand what u meant

by " From the way FM taped up their 737 max 8 at sha".

Edited by Ja Singh

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sorry lee did not understand what u meant

by " From the way FM taped up their 737 max 8 at sha".

Clue: IATA codes

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This two accidents will make life harder for aircraft manufacturers from now on.

It will not be as simple as making subsequent variations of an existing model and bypassing all the normal requirements of producing a whole new model.

 

The 737 Max is flawed by its design and weight distribution. Had the gotten things right, MCAS should not be required at all.

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https://moneymaven.io/mishtalk/economics/boeing-737-max-unsafe-to-fly-new-scathing-report-by-pilot-and-software-designer-ed5jwi2s8kCuGTAgFXR0GA/?replyPage=1

 

This report sums up the max 8 and the comment by an experienced max 8 pilot says it all....as below.

 

As an industry expert, I have flown the 737 max as a line captain and it was my 12 th type rating. This being said, i can tell you that the MCAS is the tip of the iceberg, this airplane is majorly flawed not only aerodynamically but also technically.

Never before have I encountered such strange behaviour from an airliner.

Two thing jump to me.

  1. AOA don’t fail, we have a series of failure of this part, it is the beginning of the problem.

  2. Pilots are now younger and more inexperienced, a bad stall indication system will only exacerbate the situation. Adding a light or more information to digest will only delay the response.

  3. The automation is very very weak compare to other Boeing products and especially to its arch rival Airbus.

I have flown the Boeing 767 which was desing in theory 30 years passed and it is more advanced that the 737 max. Why? Simply because the 737 max is actually an older design and has shown the limits of what this fuselage could bring. It’s like having an IPhone 10 that you have to plug in a phone jack to get internet.

Besides, I have seen autopilot kicking off for no reason and weird roll behaviour in some instances.

I asked to be removed from flying the 737 max ever again. I don’t trust this airplane and I have 17000 hours as a line Captain and have been an instructor for close to half this time. Why should the public trust the airplane? I don’t.

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https://moneymaven.io/mishtalk/economics/boeing-737-max-unsafe-to-fly-new-scathing-report-by-pilot-and-software-designer-ed5jwi2s8kCuGTAgFXR0GA/?replyPage=1

 

This report sums up the max 8 and the comment by an experienced max 8 pilot says it all....as below.

 

As an industry expert, I have flown the 737 max as a line captain and it was my 12 th type rating. This being said, i can tell you that the MCAS is the tip of the iceberg, this airplane is majorly flawed not only aerodynamically but also technically.

Never before have I encountered such strange behaviour from an airliner.

Two thing jump to me.

  1. AOA don’t fail, we have a series of failure of this part, it is the beginning of the problem.

  2. Pilots are now younger and more inexperienced, a bad stall indication system will only exacerbate the situation. Adding a light or more information to digest will only delay the response.

  3. The automation is very very weak compare to other Boeing products and especially to its arch rival Airbus.

I have flown the Boeing 767 which was desing in theory 30 years passed and it is more advanced that the 737 max. Why? Simply because the 737 max is actually an older design and has shown the limits of what this fuselage could bring. It’s like having an IPhone 10 that you have to plug in a phone jack to get internet.

Besides, I have seen autopilot kicking off for no reason and weird roll behaviour in some instances.

I asked to be removed from flying the 737 max ever again. I don’t trust this airplane and I have 17000 hours as a line Captain and have been an instructor for close to half this time. Why should the public trust the airplane? I don’t.

 

Says nothing, really, considering that the MAX have flown thousands of hours all around the world prior to the grounding. So why isn't the problem more widespread?Why did the pilots of the last Lion Air flight prior to the crash was able to save the plane when it had the same issue?

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Since MAB CEO has said they submitted a new turnaround plan with new aircraft fleet recommendations, we should know soon whether they will cancel or modify the B737-8 Max orders.

 

If they do cancel the Max, it will be sad as their history runs parallel to the B737s history. It will be the end to an era. If they cancel and convert their order to B787s, they should be looking at the B787-10 as it would be the direct replacement for their A333s.

 

So what narrow body aircraft should be ordered to replace the B738? Is the A220-300 a viable option for their thin domestic/regional routes? What about the A320/321 Neos? A320Neo will be an adequate direct replacement for the B738. A321Neo LR/XLR would be a good supplement to the B787-10 on thin regional routes.

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Says nothing, really, considering that the MAX have flown thousands of hours all around the world prior to the grounding. So why isn't the problem more widespread?Why did the pilots of the last Lion Air flight prior to the crash was able to save the plane when it had the same issue?

if it says nothing or means nothing (as u say its not widespread issue) then explain why all the max grounded for so many months now and possibly fly only in December as off now.

Edited by Ja Singh

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if it says nothing or means nothing (as u say its not widespread issue) then explain why all the max grounded for so many months now and possibly fly only in December as off now.

 

Because it's mass hysteria brought on by uninformed media sources.

 

I've said it once, I'll say it again - if there's anything inherently wrong with the MAX, we'd be seeing far more crashes already. But here's the thing, look at who crashed the MAX - Lion Air, which has a history of crashes & accidents, and Ethiopian, who crashed a 737-800 under similar circumstances back in 2010.

 

Plus the American government is currently dysfunctional. If this had happened during any other president's watch, the MAX would definitely be flying by now.

 

I ask you, why aren't we seeing more MAX crashes? Why is it that we're not seeing Southwest, American or Air Canada, the three airline with the most MAX 8 fleet have zero crashes between them?

Edited by Mohd Suhaimi Fariz

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I ask you, why aren't we seeing more MAX crashes? Why is it that we're not seeing Southwest, American or Air Canada, the three airline with the most MAX 8 fleet have zero crashes between them?

My guess for what it's worth - they have all been grounded ?! :D

 

(my apologies, could not resist) :)

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Says nothing, really, considering that the MAX have flown thousands of hours all around the world prior to the grounding. So why isn't the problem more widespread?Why did the pilots of the last Lion Air flight prior to the crash was able to save the plane when it had the same issue?

 

 

Because it's mass hysteria brought on by uninformed media sources.

 

I've said it once, I'll say it again - if there's anything inherently wrong with the MAX, we'd be seeing far more crashes already. But here's the thing, look at who crashed the MAX - Lion Air, which has a history of crashes & accidents, and Ethiopian, who crashed a 737-800 under similar circumstances back in 2010.

 

Plus the American government is currently dysfunctional. If this had happened during any other president's watch, the MAX would definitely be flying by now.

 

I ask you, why aren't we seeing more MAX crashes? Why is it that we're not seeing Southwest, American or Air Canada, the three airline with the most MAX 8 fleet have zero crashes between them?

 

How many crash need to occur before you declare unairworthiness?

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How many crash need to occur before you declare unairworthiness?

 

Only when it's clear that the crashes are caused by unairworthiness. Right now, there's only circumstantial proof that the crashes are caused by unairworthiness.

 

Ethiopia is quick to blame the airplane, but as facts emerge, it's not as black & white as you'd think it is. Same goes for Indonesia - how is it that the day before the accident, that same aircraft was able to land safely after having the exact same problem? And why didn't Lion Air properly fix the problem knowing that there was an issue?

 

It's easy to blame the plane & dismiss concerns over pilot & airline competency as veiled racism, but in actual fact those factors must be taken into account as well since a plane is only as safe as the operator.

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Because it's mass hysteria brought on by uninformed media sources.

 

I've said it once, I'll say it again - if there's anything inherently wrong with the MAX, we'd be seeing far more crashes already. But here's the thing, look at who crashed the MAX - Lion Air, which has a history of crashes & accidents, and Ethiopian, who crashed a 737-800 under similar circumstances back in 2010.

 

Plus the American government is currently dysfunctional. If this had happened during any other president's watch, the MAX would definitely be flying by now.

 

I ask you, why aren't we seeing more MAX crashes? Why is it that we're not seeing Southwest, American or Air Canada, the three airline with the most MAX 8 fleet have zero crashes between them?

As I see it you've not read in-depth about the issues plaguing the max 8 and the rush to put in in service to compete with the A320neo,thus cutting many corners.Instead blame the airlines which is very wrong on your part.Yes Lion air has tainted safety record but in this case its a different story all together.Just look at it as a individual catastrophe and read up and you will understand better with with what was/is wrong with the max 8 stall characteristics needing the introduction of flawed software,MCAS t be precise.

 

Here is a list of flaws by boeing and the max 8:

 

1. Not training or informing pilots/FAA about MCAS,reason being no need to retain so save money,only 1 hour lesson on IPAD for transition from 800 to max.The Lion air pilots never knew this software existed on their aircraft as they weren't informed.

 

2.Only using ONE reading from the angle of attack sensor to activate MCAS despite having 2 AOA sensors.(Only from the side of the flying pilot)

 

3.Warning light in cockpit which alerts pilots if the readings from the 2 AOA sensors differ widely (hence if one is faulty as in the case of Lion air) was not installed as standard equipment,but as optional hence airlines would have to pay for it extra for such an important tool of safety.

 

4. FAA was informed that MCAS only moves the horizontal tail by 0.6 degrees but boeing realised during flight test it wasn't enough to avert a high speed stall and thus changed that to 2.5 degrees without informing anyone including FAA.

 

Here is an amazing documentary on other issues that led to the creation of max 8:

 

 

I would appreciate if you can watch it and get a better understanding of the situation at hand as the world sees it and after that I would like to hear if you still think that what you wrote above is the reality,Suhaimi.So please watch first and then let us know.thanks

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As I see it you've not read in-depth about the issues plaguing the max 8 and the rush to put in in service to compete with the A320neo,thus cutting many corners.Instead blame the airlines which is very wrong on your part.Yes Lion air has tainted safety record but in this case its a different story all together.Just look at it as a individual catastrophe and read up and you will understand better with with what was/is wrong with the max 8 stall characteristics needing the introduction of flawed software,MCAS t be precise.

 

Here is a list of flaws by boeing and the max 8:

 

1. Not training or informing pilots/FAA about MCAS,reason being no need to retain so save money,only 1 hour lesson on IPAD for transition from 800 to max.The Lion air pilots never knew this software existed on their aircraft as they weren't informed.

 

2.Only using ONE reading from the angle of attack sensor to activate MCAS despite having 2 AOA sensors.(Only from the side of the flying pilot)

 

3.Warning light in cockpit which alerts pilots if the readings from the 2 AOA sensors differ widely (hence if one is faulty as in the case of Lion air) was not installed as standard equipment,but as optional hence airlines would have to pay for it extra for such an important tool of safety.

 

4. FAA was informed that MCAS only moves the horizontal tail by 0.6 degrees but boeing realised during flight test it wasn't enough to avert a high speed stall and thus changed that to 2.5 degrees without informing anyone including FAA.

 

Here is an amazing documentary on other issues that led to the creation of max 8:

 

 

I would appreciate if you can watch it and get a better understanding of the situation at hand as the world sees it and after that I would like to hear if you still think that what you wrote above is the reality,Suhaimi.So please watch first and then let us know.thanks

 

I've read all that is there to be read, and I've watched all that's there to be read. And my opinion remains the same.

 

The aircraft is not unairworthy, not then and definitely not now.

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Read the article and you will understand what it proves.

 

I've read the article and it proves nothing, just that Germans don't allow MAX ferry flights. What does that prove?

 

The article itself said that the plane made it to Stockholm, so I guess other European countries feel that the MAX is safe enough to at least fly around their airspace.

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I've read the article and it proves nothing, just that Germans don't allow MAX ferry flights. What does that prove?

 

The article itself said that the plane made it to Stockholm, so I guess other European countries feel that the MAX is safe enough to at least fly around their airspace.

If it’s indeed safe it would have been operational by now. If you’ve not already known, Boeing’s ceo said they’re humbled by the crash and will continue to learn from their mistakes.

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If it’s indeed safe it would have been operational by now. If you’ve not already known, Boeing’s ceo said they’re humbled by the crash and will continue to learn from their mistakes.

Just because it's not operational, doesn't mean it's not safe. That's a fallacy. You do realize that there are bureaucratic hassles that they need to deal with? Considering how dysfunctional the US government is at the moment, I'm not surprised that it's taking them so long.

 

As for Muilenburg's statement, of course he's going to say that. But that doesn't mean they designed an aircraft that was inherently unsafe to the point that mass hysteria is warranted.

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Just because it's not operational, doesn't mean it's not safe. That's a fallacy. You do realize that there are bureaucratic hassles that they need to deal with? Considering how dysfunctional the US government is at the moment, I'm not surprised that it's taking them so long.

 

As for Muilenburg's statement, of course he's going to say that. But that doesn't mean they designed an aircraft that was inherently unsafe to the point that mass hysteria is warranted.

Clearly you haven’t been following the news. It’s known fact that the MAX has design error. Don’t get me started on the MCAS. The FAA was so dysfunctional that they allow Boeing to do whatever they want, literally no choice. Ever since the second crash, the government stepped in and sacked the FAA director and replaced it with a retired Delta pilot. Was the FAA or the government being dysfunctional?

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Clearly you haven’t been following the news. It’s known fact that the MAX has design error. Don’t get me started on the MCAS. The FAA was so dysfunctional that they allow Boeing to do whatever they want, literally no choice. Ever since the second crash, the government stepped in and sacked the FAA director and replaced it with a retired Delta pilot. Was the FAA or the government being dysfunctional?

 

There's no denying that Boeing made a mistake in not providing redundant backups, but that doesn't make the aircraft inherently unsafe. The so-called design error didn't make the aircraft inherently unworthy. Same with the MCAS. Remember, no one single factor causes a crash, it's a chain of factors that contribute to a crash, and if any one of those chains were eliminated, the crash may have been avoided.

 

Also, you do realize that the FAA head slot was empty since January 2018 because the term of the previous head appointed under the Obama administration had ended? So the appointment was not because the FAA head was sacked due to the MAX crash, it's because they only got around to nominate the FAA head after all the hoopla started!

 

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