MAB to Lease 6 Ex-Air Berlin Airbus A330-200 Aircraft from February 2018

[Craig 0]

 

For the same reasons, MAB should cancel 737 max 8 and lease older 738.

Well no. Because Max8 comes with better efficiency and serves long term and it has flat beds in J (or was it only Max10 that has flat beds in J?). The 332 is an interim solution. They need the capacity for medium haul routes (esp. India and China).

 

Remember a few years/months back when everyone here was lamenting how MH didn't order any 350s/787s/77Ws when all airlines were placing orders and any new MH orders will be severely backlogged and will be "old product" once MH receives them (I recall someone posted that why didn't MH ordered the 77W when GA and even Biman Bangladesh ordered them)? See below:

 

Older leased 738s: no BSI, worse than LCC

New-ish 738s: too small for regional flights

332s for replacing 738s: too old

Brand new widebodies: too expensive/ambitious

 

---

 

As much as you think MH doesn't perform any market insights or analysis, it's not the same as buying vegetables at the market. Malaysia/MH in general doesn't have endless supply of funds. Sure MH might had a misstep or two in orders, but they don't just throw darts on the wall for new flights/destinations, aircraft deployments, and especially aircraft procurement.

 

As far as LOI for the 789s - they are meant for 2019 deliveries on - who knows what the economy is like then - maybe MH might want to venture back into the European market and these 787s works out best for them based on their analysis. Come 2019 and if MH ordered the 339 or other types of aircraft, I bet someone here will post something in the lines of "No foresight - they should have ordered the 789. XXX plane cannot even make it to Europe without payload restrictions". Hindsight is always 20/20 no?

as a very regular flier, I do take a look at the age of the aircraft and the operator of the aircrafts and or see the average age of the fleet.

Guess you prefer a brand new 320/737 with slimline seats over those aging 734s with plush cushion seats (or a recliner BSI 737-8 than a flat bed on an aging 332 in MH's case). I flew a Comair (ex-BA) 734 earlier this year and I must say it's one of the most comfortable narrow body Y rides in a while. No wifi/PTV/power outlets, no problem

Edited September 29, 2017 by Craig

[nastar 0]

"Owh, 734 is an old aircraft... we should get a new one... owh okay 738.

Yikes.. 738 not new enough.. we should get newer... owh okay 73Max.

Eh.. 738 ke 73Max ke tak cukup capacity, we should get bigger aircraft.. owh okay 332"

 

"Eh 332 old aircraft lah.. no confident to fly.. we should get newer aircraft.. owh okay 339

Eh 339 nothing new lah. only strengthening wings, structure and new engines.. not as good as 789 or 350. They got better cabin pressure so less air sickness... owh okay we order 789"

 

"Eh 789 order 8 only? Eh 359 order 6 only? Tak cukup la we should order more.

Eh mix aircraft 359 & 789? not good business sense la ini MH. High cost to maintain, costly, semua teruk.

Eh why make decision so late? Other carrier already use the aircraft. We are just about to order? Ketinggalan zaman

Eh Gomen olso campur ka in this? no change la MH since then until now sama no point doing business..."

 

"Beli salah tak beli salah. Buy this aircraft too old buy that aircraft too expensive buy another aircraft too big buy the other aircraft nonsense.

 

My fellow Malaysian & MalaysianWings.Net members, give MH chance to do the business. The current situation is way better than what we had gone through during MAS time. Gomen interference is at minimum level currently. I do understand we are so eager to see MH to flying high again. We want to see and to feel that it worth our money (via Khazanah) to inject MYR6b into MH. We want to see MH to be as good as other carriers.

 

Comments are welcome, ideas are welcome. But we hope whatever ideas and comments would be logical and possible to implement. As an insider, sometimes we could only laugh or sakit hati with some of the comments here. Either you are totally zero knowledge, you just say it out loud without any basis, you are too ambitious, too much influence from the development of other carriers, or you are very logical in giving your opinion, comments and etc.

 

MH is my 5th carrier I work with. Starting with BI, EY, UA, QR, ERL and now MH. Im sure Im not the only MH staff in Mwings here.

 

If I may say, what MH doing now is the most logical decision we have made, based on current situation, compare to the previous management or previous MAS. Not the best nor the most popular decision, but we think the decision made is the best suit with our current situation. We are almost there to be in black and we need to work extra harder.

[Craig 0]

Comments are welcome, ideas are welcome. But we hope whatever ideas and comments would be logical and possible to implement. As an insider, sometimes we could only laugh or sakit hati with some of the comments here. Either you are totally zero knowledge, you just say it out loud without any basis, you are too ambitious, too much influence from the development of other carriers, or you are very logical in giving your opinion, comments and etc.

 

MH is my 5th carrier I work with. Starting with BI, EY, UA, QR, ERL and now MH. Im sure Im not the only MH staff in Mwings here.

 

If I may say, what MH doing now is the most logical decision we have made, based on current situation, compare to the previous management or previous MAS. Not the best nor the most popular decision, but we think the decision made is the best suit with our current situation. We are almost there to be in black and we need to work extra harder.

Don't know why I can't like a post, but "like"

[Eddy Liew 0]

 

 

Comments are welcome, ideas are welcome. But we hope whatever ideas and comments would be logical and possible to implement. As an insider, sometimes we could only laugh or sakit hati with some of the comments here. Either you are totally zero knowledge, you just say it out loud without any basis, you are too ambitious, too much influence from the development of other carriers, or you are very logical in giving your opinion, comments and etc.

 

MH is my 5th carrier I work with. Starting with BI, EY, UA, QR, ERL and now MH. Im sure Im not the only MH staff in Mwings here.

 

If I may say, what MH doing now is the most logical decision we have made, based on current situation, compare to the previous management or previous MAS. Not the best nor the most popular decision, but we think the decision made is the best suit with our current situation. We are almost there to be in black and we need to work extra harder.

 

well said, damned if you do damned if you don't. Just get on with it. Like!

 

if I work at MAS/AXM/MXD i wont be visiting MW forum lol.

[Johan Z 0]

It blows my mind as well those people who often criticise MH's decisions are the ones who want MH to return to AMS and US.

[Craig 0]

It blows my mind as well those people who often criticise MH's decisions are the ones who want MH to return to AMS and US.

But yet doesn't buy MH tickets to those places. EK RM1 cheaper? Let's fly EK instead.

 

Same goes for those who criticizes MH business product. They don't buy J tickets but complain it's sub-standard compared to SQ 😂. People who buys J will sure prefer old 332 flat beds than new BSI recliner J on MH 126/127/386/387 etc.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Craig

[Tom/PER 0]

Why are people so quick to suggest that MH might be considering replacing its A333 fleet? -MTA was only delivered in 2011 and these are A330-323X's so a lot more capable that people seemingly give them credit for.

 

I believe only 2-3 of these frames are leased whilst rest are owned.

 

Sounds like these ex AB A332 will have the old style dated interiors - overhead bins etc like -XAA had.

 

Good for MH, but kinda sad they did go the Etihad option.

[Waiping 12]

Beside novelty value, for reasons airline order latest airplane and engine. If there isn't significant advantages, Boeing or Airbus would not have spent so much in R&D and introduce next generation aircraft and engine.

 

MAB lease old A332 is like someone preferred used car than brand new.

 

I hope you are not suggesting that they come up with "face-lift" every year like the automotive industry.

[KK Lee 5]

 

I hope you are not suggesting that they come up with "face-lift" every year like the automotive industry.

Unlike automotive industry where competition is fierce, aircraft manufacturers are not under pressured to facelift regularly. Edited September 30, 2017 by KK Lee

[Chris Tan 0]

Why are people so quick to suggest that MH might be considering replacing its A333 fleet? -MTA was only delivered in 2011 and these are A330-323X's so a lot more capable that people seemingly give them credit for.

Won't take long for an armchair analyst/CEO to complain about how MH has poor fleet planning, and how they should've ordered X number of A350s and Y number of B77Ws with 1-2-1 Business Class because SQ, TG, CX have them, and retire the ancient MT* series A330s because they're old and not airworthy anymore.

 

And we all know any plane that's >10 years old will be a huge turnoff to potential customers, who would diligently check the age of an airline's fleet before booking. Very regular fliers would also take their money to another airline which has an average fleet age that's 2 months younger than MH, because average fleet age is the single most important factor to very regular fliers.

[KK Lee 5]

Won't take long for an armchair analyst/CEO to complain about how MH has poor fleet planning, and how they should've ordered X number of A350s and Y number of B77Ws with 1-2-1 Business Class because SQ, TG, CX have them, and retire the ancient MT* series A330s because they're old and not airworthy anymore.

 

And we all know any plane that's >10 years old will be a huge turnoff to potential customers, who would diligently check the age of an airline's fleet before booking. Very regular fliers would also take their money to another airline which has an average fleet age that's 2 months younger than MH, because average fleet age is the single most important factor to very regular fliers.

New aircraft and engine is more efficient, cask could be 10% cheaper than older model. By operating older model, while competitors are making profit or break even, unless mab could charge a higher price, mab could be losing money.

 

Oil price like most commodities, price is cyclical. It is a matter of time, oil price will be over $100/barrel. During high oil price period, it is almost a certainty, mab will be operating in the red, and won't be a surprise accumulated losses exceed shareholders funds.

[Mohd Azizul Ramli 2]

Why are people so quick to suggest that MH might be considering replacing its A333 fleet? -MTA was only delivered in 2011 and these are A330-323X's so a lot more capable that people seemingly give them credit for.

 

I believe only 2-3 of these frames are leased whilst rest are owned.

 

Sounds like these ex AB A332 will have the old style dated interiors - overhead bins etc like -XAA had.

 

Good for MH, but kinda sad they did go the Etihad option.

 

MH are the one saying that they are replacing the 15 A333. That's what that whole thread of 25 A339 neo purchase is all about.

 

MH said the 15 A333 are leased for 9-10 years only and they will be retired progressively from 2020 until 2025.

 

I even made a speadsheet about it in the aircraft delivery thread.

 

I believe all MH aircraft now are acquired on leasing basis. They do not own any aircraft. The last aircraft owned by MH were the 2 B772 and the 2 freighter B744.

[Mohd Suhaimi Fariz 2]

New aircraft and engine is more efficient, cask could be 10% cheaper than older model. By operating older model, while competitors are making profit or break even, unless mab could charge a higher price, mab could be losing money.

Oil price like most commodities, price is cyclical. It is a matter of time, oil price will be over $100/barrel. During high oil price period, it is almost a certainty, mab will be operating in the red, and won't be a surprise accumulated losses exceed shareholders funds.

But when you factor in acquisition costs sometimes it would even out or even cost more than operating older aircraft. Northwest were operating DC-9s even when oil was at $100 a barrel simply because their planes are paid for.

 

I believe all MH aircraft now are acquired on leasing basis. They do not own any aircraft. The last aircraft owned by MH were the 2 B772 and the 2 freighter B744.

Some of the aircraft are on operating leases actually, whereby MH forms a SPC that purchases the aircraft & leases it to the airline.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Mohd Suhaimi Fariz

[KK Lee 5]

But when you factor in acquisition costs sometimes it would even out or even cost more than operating older aircraft. Northwest were operating DC-9s even when oil was at $100 a barrel simply because their planes are paid for.

 

 

Some of the aircraft are on operating leases actually, whereby MH forms a SPC that purchases the aircraft & leases it to the airline.

 

Old banger is always cheap to own. As a carrier, MH needs to consider competitors offering. Most pax may not able to differentiate 732, 734, 738, 73M8, A300, A333, A359, 757, 767, 787 or 777 but most could distinguish comfort level, size of ptv, legroom, noise, cleanliness, etc, and consumers are no longer naive like before.

 

How much MH is profitable could be depending on SPV charge on the lease.

[jahur 0]

 

Old banger is always cheap to own. As a carrier, MH needs to consider competitors offering. Most pax may not able to differentiate 732, 734, 738, 73M8, A300, A333, A359, 757, 767, 787 or 777 but most could distinguish comfort level, size of ptv, legroom, noise, cleanliness, etc, and consumers are no longer naive like before.

 

How much MH is profitable could be depending on SPV charge on the lease.

The lease rates is pretty good actuallym The only thing i think mh have to look out for is avoiding premium based sector for the planes. These are only meant for upgauging domestic and closeby regionals. Dunno how many times i see bki-kul got filled up and you have 30 people on standby counter requesting a particular time departure only being told to defer to the next flight or even turn up the next day instead because of unavailability of seats. These folks sometimes buy tickets last minutes by tour agent or corporate private agency, plane type does not concern them but they really want the particular flight time departure. The airline cant even load the equiptment upgrade into the system unless on the travel day itself and there's spare a330 around with enough crew. Edited October 1, 2017 by jahur

[KK Lee 5]

The lease rates is pretty good actuallym The only thing i think mh have to look out for is avoiding premium based sector for the planes. These are only meant for upgauging domestic and closeby regionals. Dunno how many times i see bki-kul got filled up and you have 30 people on standby counter requesting a particular time departure only being told to defer to the next flight or even turn up the next day instead because of unavailability of seats. These folks sometimes buy tickets last minutes by tour agent or corporate private agency, plane type does not concern them but they really want the particular flight time departure. The airline cant even load the equiptment upgrade into the system unless on the travel day itself and there's spare a330 around with enough crew.

 

To cater these extra pax, MH could either deploy additional 738 flight or swap 738 with A333, which may not be profitable. The reason to have 332 size aircraft.

[leon t 0]

not forgetting that they still have 6 A380s sitting around by 1st quarter next year.

Edited October 2, 2017 by leon t

[mokhzani 0]

Malaysia Airlines will fly ex-Airberlin A330s to Auckland

 

https://www.ausbt.com.au/malaysia-airlines-will-fly-ex-airberlin-a330s-to-auckland

[Chris Tan 0]

Malaysia Airlines will fly ex-Airberlin A330s to Auckland

 

https://www.ausbt.com.au/malaysia-airlines-will-fly-ex-airberlin-a330s-to-auckland

I'm guessing that frees up an A333 for regional use. But I'm also wondering if this is a temporary arrangement since the A350 is supposed to fly to AKL, unless they've changed their minds.

[flee 5]

I'm guessing that frees up an A333 for regional use. But I'm also wondering if this is a temporary arrangement since the A350 is supposed to fly to AKL, unless they've changed their minds.

Yes, they have changed their minds - they said the A350 is too expensive a plane to use on this route. They are trying to find better yielding routes for the two remaining A350s.

[RaymondT 0]

Malaysia Airlines will fly ex-Airberlin A330s to Auckland

 

https://www.ausbt.com.au/malaysia-airlines-will-fly-ex-airberlin-a330s-to-auckland

Hmm.. no mention of Perth though.. that's an almost 6 hours flight that's currently on a 737...

 

 

[flee 5]

In the Australian BT report linked above, they said they would use the same equipment for all Australian routes. So.....

[Lim Kar Yong 0]

In the Australian BT report linked above, they said they would use the same equipment for all Australian routes. So.....

 

...it doesn't say Perth would get A333. I guess Perth has so many choices already - AK, OD and MH, and perhaps overcapacity? I think AK has 2 flights on some days? But seriously, MH timing is really bad for arrival - unless one has family and friends to pick up, it is not that convenient.

[Josh T 0]

They can return to BNE with those A332s...

[Chris Tan 0]

 

...it doesn't say Perth would get A333. I guess Perth has so many choices already - AK, OD and MH, and perhaps overcapacity? I think AK has 2 flights on some days? But seriously, MH timing is really bad for arrival - unless one has family and friends to pick up, it is not that convenient.

I guess the possibility for PER is greater now that one frame will be freed from AKL?

 

Anyway, the timing can't please everyone. Some people are happy to have a full day in PER before leaving, others hate arriving in the middle of the night.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Chris Tan