Geoff R. 0 Report post Posted January 5, 2015 Do you really thinking that AirAsia is flying on sundays since many years that route without the required approvals? The Indonesian DCA think so and have said so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mohd Suhaimi Fariz 2 Report post Posted January 6, 2015 The Indonesian DCA think so and have said so. Logically, wouldn't ATC reject the flightplan if they weren't approved to fly? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flee 5 Report post Posted January 6, 2015 Some people on a.net (who are familiar with this area of flight ops) have said that it is quite common for airlines to fly routes that are approved in principle but pending the paperwork. In some cases, airlines have started a route, flew it for a few months and then cancelled the route. All this is done without seeing the official paperwork done! As such, they said that they are not surprised that Indonesia (being an ICAO Cat 2 country) is slower in its paperwork than Singapore (an ICAO Cat 1 country). We should know the results of the investigation soon. QZ should produce some paperwork to prove that they have the necessary approvals. But right now, they are keeping silent. So we have to wait and see.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KK Lee 5 Report post Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) Making illegal or unlicensed flight could void insurance cover. Doubt ak would jeopardize their insurance cover and subsequent loan facility. Edited January 6, 2015 by KK Lee Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr Chuo Hock Tieng 0 Report post Posted January 6, 2015 Questions. Does QZ8501 is an extra flight, hence the QZ8xxx code? I noticed SUB-KUL is QZxxx. Please advice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mulyadir Fitri 0 Report post Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) Not just QZ.They are opening a can of worms. Now 8 Lion Air, 3 Sriwijaya and 2 Kalstar flights are suspended from SUB. All domestic and all do not have the necessary permissions for schedule changes. http://m.detik.com/news/read/2015/01/06/133234/2795255/10/8-lion-air-3-sriwijaya-dan-2-kal-star-dilarang-terbang-dari-bandara-juanda Edited January 6, 2015 by Mulyadir Fitri Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flee 5 Report post Posted January 6, 2015 Questions. Does QZ8501 is an extra flight, hence the QZ8xxx code? I noticed SUB-KUL is QZxxx. Please advice. Nope, the flight no was changed post-crash. Making illegal or unlicensed flight could void insurance cover. Doubt ak would jeopardize their insurance cover and subsequent loan facility. I am not sure who has the insurable interest. The aircraft is owned by Doric (Amadeo) and is on a 10 year lease, expiring in 2018. But you are correct, Airasia's standing will be affected, at least in the short term... Not just QZ.They are opening a can of worms. Now 8 Lion Air, 3 Sriwijaya and 2 Kalstar flights are suspended from SUB. All domestic and all do not have the necessary permissions for schedule changes. http://m.detik.com/news/read/2015/01/06/133234/2795255/10/8-lion-air-3-sriwijaya-dan-2-kal-star-dilarang-terbang-dari-bandara-juanda If this is true, some sort of trend is developing here.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
S V Choong 4 Report post Posted January 6, 2015 Nope, the flight no was changed post-crash. I am not sure who has the insurable interest. The aircraft is owned by Doric (Amadeo) and is on a 10 year lease, expiring in 2018. But you are correct, Airasia's standing will be affected, at least in the short term... If this is true, some sort of trend is developing here.... Wonder if this could mean the pax's optional insurance (upon the purchase of the ticket) will be voided as well... It will be a blow for everyone. Not just QZ.They are opening a can of worms. Now 8 Lion Air, 3 Sriwijaya and 2 Kalstar flights are suspended from SUB. All domestic and all do not have the necessary permissions for schedule changes. http://m.detik.com/news/read/2015/01/06/133234/2795255/10/8-lion-air-3-sriwijaya-dan-2-kal-star-dilarang-terbang-dari-bandara-juanda May be sleepless night for those who failed to do their job properly, the ones who supposed to ensure that all flights out of the airport must carry appropriate licence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flee 5 Report post Posted January 6, 2015 Insurers see 'no problems' with claims despite confusion over route permits http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report-airasia-qz8501-insurers-see-no-problems-with-claims-despite-confusion-over-route-permits-2050153 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mohd Azizul Ramli 2 Report post Posted January 6, 2015 I am not sure how's things have developed now but based on my experience living and working in Indonesia in 2005-2008, the bereaucracy is a big PITA. I am so sure that the Minister who barked on the illegality matter will ended up malu himself. This kind of attitude (barking without thorough checking) is so common among powerful Kepalas over there especially to foreign own companies (specifically from the Maling-land) whose mission is in the most cliche term - to merampok kedaulatan negara Indonesia. Now that the illegal paperwork thing involves their local airlines as well (hopefully Garuda can be roped in too just to establish a bigger basis that it is a non-issue), ICAO Cat 2 matters are in the open, it wil be backfired that they are the one who is so slow and not doing things as per what they actually barked to the effected parties. My suggestion to AK or the Malaysian bosses is to just keep quite and let the QZ CEO and the Indonesian staff in the company handle the matter as they know well how to handle their own kind. On the search mission: Some passengers were found still strapped to their seats. Logically there must have found the wreckage. I don't think the seats detached from the plane and floated around individually with the strapping passengers on it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mohd Suhaimi Fariz 2 Report post Posted January 6, 2015 Some passengers were found still strapped to their seats. Logically there must have found the wreckage. I don't think the seats detached from the plane and floated around individually with the strapping passengers on it. I disagree - crash forces may be strong enough to rip those seats from their mountings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mohd Azizul Ramli 2 Report post Posted January 6, 2015 But we haven't seen any footage of the seat being gathered up as 'debris'. Not on BBC at least. I saw the window panel, emergency door but no seat. From the news article, more than 30 have been found and it does suggested that quite a number of them were found still strapped to their seats. So there must be many seats involved but we have seen none. 4 big wreckage identified on the sea bed. I am in the mindset that the bodies were recovered by divers still strapped to their seats in these 4 big wreckages, like some of AF447 passengers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mulyadir Fitri 0 Report post Posted January 6, 2015 But we haven't seen any footage of the seat being gathered up as 'debris'. Not on BBC at least. I saw the window panel, emergency door but no seat. From the news article, more than 30 have been found and it does suggested that quite a number of them were found still strapped to their seats. So there must be many seats involved but we have seen none. 4 big wreckage identified on the sea bed. I am in the mindset that the bodies were recovered by divers still strapped to their seats in these 4 big wreckages, like some of AF447 passengers. They have found quite a few seats actually. You can see a set here: http://www.bharian.com.my/node/27301?m=1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flee 5 Report post Posted January 6, 2015 I disagree - crash forces may be strong enough to rip those seats from their mountings. Yes, from the debris retrieved so far, some experts are suggesting that the aircraft impacted the sea with high energy... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flee 5 Report post Posted January 6, 2015 AirAsia flight QZ8501: Transport minister 'responsible for alleged illegal flight route' JAKARTA (THE JAKARTA POST/ASIA NEWS NETWORK) - Transportation Minister Ignasius Jonan should be held responsible an alleged illegal flight schedule involving budget airline AirAsia, according to Bambang Haryo, a member of House of Representatives Commission VI overseeing consumer protection. "The transportation minister should be held equally responsible for the case. A flight-worthiness status, especially for international flights, is based on permission and approval given directly by the transportation minister," said Bambang as quoted by Antara news agency in Jakarta on Tuesday. He insisted the airline company should not be blamed for the case relating to AirAsia flight QZ8501, which crashed into the waters of the Karimata Strait while en route from Surabaya to Singapore on Dec 28. - See more at: http://www.straitstimes.com/news/asia/south-east-asia/story/airasia-flight-qz8501-transport-minister-responsible-alleged-illegal#sthash.rsaWmTyO.dpuf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mohd Azizul Ramli 2 Report post Posted January 6, 2015 Told you - BACKFIRED. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mulyadir Fitri 0 Report post Posted January 6, 2015 Tony:We have the required permission to do daily flights between SUB SIN. What happened was just a misunderstanding and a problem in the paperwork/administration. http://m.detik.com/news/read/2015/01/06/224655/2795828/10/ceo-tony-airasia-punya-hak-terbang-7-kali-seminggu-di-rute-surabaya-singapura Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leon t 0 Report post Posted January 7, 2015 the lastest news is that Tony acknowledges that the flight was not properly filed. It cant be that his earlier explanation of "misunderstanding and problem in paperwork" was the result as the flight have been operational for the past several weeks and that it was not one but twice on that sunday ! It should not take several weeks to clear up the "misunderstanding". Although this is not an issue to the crash but nonetheless it reflects AK "lapse" in procedures". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ja Singh 2 Report post Posted January 7, 2015 the lastest news is that Tony acknowledges that the flight was not properly filed. It cant be that his earlier explanation of "misunderstanding and problem in paperwork" was the result as the flight have been operational for the past several weeks and that it was not one but twice on that sunday ! It should not take several weeks to clear up the "misunderstanding". Although this is not an issue to the crash but nonetheless it reflects AK "lapse" in procedures". AK or QZ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leon t 0 Report post Posted January 7, 2015 at this time, although the ill fated plane is QZ - but the Air Asia branding itself is being watched too. And as a lesson nd precaution AK should also do it audit to ensure all its flight routes applications and flights are all done right - and not fly on any "misunderstandings" or "paperwork isssues". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mulyadir Fitri 0 Report post Posted January 7, 2015 They have found the tail of PK-AXC. http://m.detik.com/news/readfoto/2015/01/07/132443/2796359/157/1/ekor-pesawat-airasia-qz8501-ditemukan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Azman MN 1 Report post Posted January 7, 2015 water is a lot murkier and visibility is worse than I imagined. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mohd Suhaimi Fariz 2 Report post Posted January 7, 2015 at this time, although the ill fated plane is QZ - but the Air Asia branding itself is being watched too. And as a lesson nd precaution AK should also do it audit to ensure all its flight routes applications and flights are all done right - and not fly on any "misunderstandings" or "paperwork isssues". I would gather AK would have been more careful with their paperwork after the AOC flap with Malaysian DCA in 2013, no? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Goh 1 Report post Posted January 7, 2015 What has no permit to fly has got to do with crash? Can someone enlighten me pls Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zamir 0 Report post Posted January 7, 2015 What has no permit to fly has got to do with crash? Can someone enlighten me pls Maybe like "if that flight didn't fly that day, the crash won't happen" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
