MAS B772 9M-MRD (Ex Heliconia) Flight MH17 AMS-KUL Shot Down by Russian Missile in Ukraine All 298 POB Killed

[Waiping 12]

Maybe we are buddies with Syria than Iraq which is pretty much in US control now.

 

Here is the thing. When everyone is using the route and we are the victim, it is not good a reason to use that route. However when we use a different route i.e Syria iso Iraq, everyone is waiting for something to happen.

 

Wonder if anyone onboard held their breath as they cross Syria.

[Mohd Suhaimi Fariz 2]

If Black sea, Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan is off limit, why MH is still over flying there very recently as per flightradar24 history? Northerly route over Poland, Belarus, Russia, Kazakhstan, China, Burma/Thailand is not a unfamiliar route.

 

Believe MH shared your sentiment on Ukrainian crisis hence didn't review the risk regularly even though a number of planes were shot down recently.

 

Pakistan, Iran & Afghanistan isn't off limits - I'm just saying that the current fear over flying through conflict zone isn't really rational considering there are many conflict zones to go through in this world. It's bloody unfair for armchair CEOs to judge based on hindsight. Like I said, have you even heard of the Buk missile system before this?

 

I am very unhappy with the MH4 fiasco today, as if MH never really learnt a thing from the tragedy.

 

Can the folks at the route planning copy the flight plan of BA's SIN-LHR or AF's KUL-CDG? I am sure it is not that difficult to do.

 

Tracking BA15 (LHR-SIN), MH1 (LHR-KUL) and SQ321 (LHR-SIN) now. BA15 chose the routing to the north, getting around Ukraine through Poland, Lithuania, Belarus and Russia. MH1 on the other hand, chose the southern routing avoiding Ukraine through Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary and now in Romania. SQ321 chose even a more northerly route, avoiding Ukraine through the Baltic Sea, Lithuania and now in Belarus.

 

Planning for a flight isn't as easy as it seems. Need to secure overflight rights which may take days or even weeks to procure especially from the former Soviet bloc countries. They are very particular as the airspace is viewed as a sovereign right. Some countries are so particular, they wouldn't allow overflights if the aircraft registration is different that that filed for approval (due to last minute operational swap). Similarly that's why flight number changes are so hard - MH17/MH370 flight numbers is unable to be changed immediately as the flight plans have already been filed with the authorities.

 

As for the Syria flights - there were no NOTAMS to note of. Surely the flight dispatchers will know more about the situation than a Social Media guy or other armchair CEOs. And beside, MH4 on the 20th was the only flight that overflew Syria - every other flight to Europe went the Iran route which also overfly Afghanistan & Pakistan. Both areas are conflict zones.

[Johan Z 0]

As far as I remember, airlines have been crossing Afghanistan for years, even during the conflict.

[Najib Ramli 0]

I would have to say good job for securing the black box and access to the site...

 

this is the main reason why I advocated restraint in the diplomatic response in my earlier post......kudos to Najib for speaking directly to the rebel's leader even though DPR is not a "real" country...doubt any head of countries would want to do that...

[JuliusWong 0]

MH17 in a nutshell

 

 

The main 'actors' and BUK missile

[Cire 0]

I would have to say good job for securing the black box and access to the site...

 

this is the main reason why I advocated restraint in the diplomatic response in my earlier post......kudos to Najib for speaking directly to the rebel's leader even though DPR is not a "real" country...doubt any head of countries would want to do that...

 

 

Yes, well done, although I have to admit that I am a bit surprised about the achievements.

[Johan Z 0]

 

 

Yes, well done, although I have to admit that I am a bit surprised about the achievements.

 

Maybe sometimes we should refrain from questioning why government hasn't done this and that? It's not an easy job. One thing I agree with Najib is this:

 

"In recent days, there were times I wanted to give greater voice to the anger and grief that the Malaysian people feel. And that I feel. But sometimes, we must work quietly in the service of a better outcome."

 

​(from his statement released today)

[Azri 0]

I would have to say good job for securing the black box and access to the site...

 

this is the main reason why I advocated restraint in the diplomatic response in my earlier post......kudos to Najib for speaking directly to the rebel's leader even though DPR is not a "real" country...doubt any head of countries would want to do that...

 

I am not quite sure the repercussion for our PM (Malaysian gov) to talk to the rebel leader. Are we recognizing them? Will this set a precedent with our future dealing with "rebels"?

 

I can still accept if the negotiation is done by our rep but phone call by PM himself? As you pointed out, no other head of governments would want to do that and I suppose that is for a good reason.

 

Usually in "negotiation", something got to give and I wonder what have we agreed.

[Suzanne Goh 0]

I'm on hold with the MH call center for F/J class - number 12 in queue - must no doubt be because of cancellations.

 

I think maybe MH should have set up a special number for the waiver they are offering. I'm calling because i want to move some flights earlier because I'm going to buy TWO tickets right now....... Go MH!

 

Trying to figure out a TPE-KUL-HKT-KUL-NRT-KUL-HKT-KUL-TPE for next week...

[Waiping 12]

I like to think that the rebel realise they have to cooperate with Malaysia rather than to further escalate this into an international crisis. Perhaps Putin pressed them too.

[Aaron Brown 0]

I'm on hold with the MH call center for F/J class - number 12 in queue - must no doubt be because of cancellations.

 

I think maybe MH should have set up a special number for the waiver they are offering. I'm calling because i want to move some flights earlier because I'm going to buy TWO tickets right now....... Go MH!

 

Trying to figure out a TPE-KUL-HKT-KUL-NRT-KUL-HKT-KUL-TPE for next week...

 

I admire your spirit Suzanne Goh. Way to go although I found out from a few travel agents that MAS is facing a lot of cancellations. I believe MAS still deserves our support in time of dire need especially to the ones who gave so much to the company.

[KK Lee 5]

Pakistan, Iran & Afghanistan isn't off limits - I'm just saying that the current fear over flying through conflict zone isn't really rational considering there are many conflict zones to go through in this world. It's bloody unfair for armchair CEOs to judge based on hindsight. Like I said, have you even heard of the Buk missile system before this?

 

SA11 yes.

[Suzanne Goh 0]

 

I found out from a few travel agents that MAS is facing a lot of cancellations. I believe MAS still deserves our support in time of dire need especially to the ones who gave so much to the company.

 

Definitely. I dunno how else to support my national airline than buy tickets. After MH370 i channeled a LOT of travel towards MH. That was 1st to 2nd gear. Sekarang masuk gear 3

[V Wong 0]

 

Definitely. I dunno how else to support my national airline than buy tickets. After MH370 i channeled a LOT of travel towards MH. That was 1st to 2nd gear. Sekarang masuk gear 3

Definitely! After the roller coaster emotional ride the past week, the only tangible way to support is to continue flying MH. Screaming shouting and ranting bl**dy murder could only assuage a little of the anger.

[Henry 0]

Currently booking LHR-KUL-BKK-KUL-BKK for September and again for October. I did the same route post MH370. LHR-KUL-SYD-KUL-LHR in December. My support for MH.

[S V Choong 4]

 

I admire your spirit Suzanne Goh. Way to go although I found out from a few travel agents that MAS is facing a lot of cancellations. I believe MAS still deserves our support in time of dire need especially to the ones who gave so much to the company.

Why support MH when all they do is to stop flying the Ukrainian air route and fly another potentially deadly route through Afghanistan, Syria, Iran or Iraq then attempt to convince others that the ICAO backed the routes are the safe ones? They are putting their staff, customers, assets and names' sake at risk to save a few dimes.

 

I remember when I was a kid and MH pride themselves of avoiding conflict zones (Kuwait and Iraq) back then. Sadly I could not see this anymore and there is no way I would support them when they put us at risk. I would rather fly with others who are safer. CX went around the perimeter of Ukraine just to avoid being hit by missiles.

[Suzanne Goh 0]

Why support MH when all they do is to stop flying the Ukrainian air route and fly another potentially deadly route through Afghanistan, Syria, Iran or Iraq then attempt to convince others that the ICAO backed the routes are the safe ones? They are putting their staff, customers, assets and names' sake at risk to save a few dimes.

 

I remember when I was a kid and MH pride themselves of avoiding conflict zones (Kuwait and Iraq) back then. Sadly I could not see this anymore and there is no way I would support them when they put us at risk. I would rather fly with others who are safer. CX went around the perimeter of Ukraine just to avoid being hit by missiles.

 

Seriously.... have you had a look the routes you think SQ flies?

 

Edit: And or anybody else for that matter.......

Edited July 22, 2014 by Suzanne Goh

[Cire 0]

 

Maybe sometimes we should refrain from questioning why government hasn't done this and that? It's not an easy job. One thing I agree with Najib is this:

 

"In recent days, there were times I wanted to give greater voice to the anger and grief that the Malaysian people feel. And that I feel. But sometimes, we must work quietly in the service of a better outcome."

 

​(from his statement released today)

 

Well, different folks, different strokes on how to approach a situation.

 

In this case, Malaysia is able to think out of the box and settled for the alternative route. However, I can't help to think that the negotiation is an easy one and that somehow a monetary sum is involved in this negotiation seeing at how swiftly the agreement took place. What's the catch?

Not to undermine efforts given out here, but wouldn't one be curious enough to know what actually was negotiated between Malaysia and the Ukraine rebels?

 

However, we all hope that the little traded off terms is outweighed by the end results of getting the deceased back to their homeland as soon as possible.

 

So, now the world leaders should start calling up the PM and congratulate the latter for a job well done, no?

[Mohd Azizul Ramli 2]

 

Pakistan, Iran & Afghanistan isn't off limits - I'm just saying that the current fear over flying through conflict zone isn't really rational considering there are many conflict zones to go through in this world. It's bloody unfair for armchair CEOs to judge based on hindsight. Like I said, have you even heard of the Buk missile system before this?

 

 

Planning for a flight isn't as easy as it seems. Need to secure overflight rights which may take days or even weeks to procure especially from the former Soviet bloc countries. They are very particular as the airspace is viewed as a sovereign right. Some countries are so particular, they wouldn't allow overflights if the aircraft registration is different that that filed for approval (due to last minute operational swap). Similarly that's why flight number changes are so hard - MH17/MH370 flight numbers is unable to be changed immediately as the flight plans have already been filed with the authorities.

 

As for the Syria flights - there were no NOTAMS to note of. Surely the flight dispatchers will know more about the situation than a Social Media guy or other armchair CEOs. And beside, MH4 on the 20th was the only flight that overflew Syria - every other flight to Europe went the Iran route which also overfly Afghanistan & Pakistan. Both areas are conflict zones.

 

I don't understand why you keep insisting asking whether KK Lee and I have ever heard of Buk missile before or not like we are stupid or something? Sure we might be an armchair keyboard [fill in position] but I know Buk missile. I always buy a few of them when playing Civilization.

 

I am in the opinion that if an airline put safety concern first, especially one that endured 2 major major catastrophe in 1/2 of its financial calendar year, it will do anything to get it done/right. Giving excuses such as it is difficult to procure the rights to fly above certain countries does not make the cut.

• There is just a few countries (7-8 ) that involved for a flight from KUL to Europe, not 57 or 80 countries.
• If BA, AF, SQ can do it, why MH can't?
• If SQ which has been flying through Ukraine for years can simply change its course through the Baltic Sea, Lithuania, Belarus and Russia (based on my tracking of flight SQ321 last night), how can they get all the paperworks done so fast?
• Capt Nik Huzlan wrote this on social media last night:

"Sad no doubt, but getting more and more curious with MH statement by good friend Capt Izham - 'Our assessment shows acceptable risk' and using 'other airlines do it too' as justification. Pretty serious I think...

 

[On MH4 flying over Syria] I suspected this and thanks for confirming.

 

They must know something everyone else do not. Or Operational Management has completely broke down. God save MAS.

 

Congrats MAS. Put it to ICAO. [big thumb up] If I remember correctly, Ukraine was also declared save by ICAO."

 

This is Capt Nik Huzlan we are talking about people!!!

 

I may not be a frequent flyer like Suzanne but I do fly this route regularly to get home several times a year. And honestly after the MH4 fiasco, MH is officially off the list for my future LHR-KUL flights because I think the airline is stubborn and not in touch with reality.

 

this is the main reason why I advocated restraint in the diplomatic response in my earlier post......kudos to Najib for speaking directly to the rebel's leader even though DPR is not a "real" country...doubt any head of countries would want to do that...

 

The common policy (US) especially that do not negotiate with terrorist.

 

 

Yes, well done, although I have to admit that I am a bit surprised about the achievements.

 

I suppose he did learnt something from the MH370 experience.

 

 

Usually in "negotiation", something got to give and I wonder what have we agreed.

 

That is a good point to raise and hopefully the media do a follow up. Would be interested to know as well.

[Suzanne Goh 0]

 

MH is officially off the list for my future LHR-KUL flights

 

Wah like that susah laa..... Not sure how you gonna fly LHR-KUL then

 

Ok relax - just trying to take the edge off a tense thread here

[Mohd Azizul Ramli 2]

For me, until MH can prove/show that they are copying BA LHR-BKK/SIN and AF CDG-KUL flight path. That would be adequate.

[Johan Z 0]

I will still fly with MH, if they're cheap. Using my own assessment, I don't see why they're culpable in both accidents. I will avoid them only if they had maintenance issue like other EU-banned airlines.

[Suzanne Goh 0]

I don't see why they're culpable in both accidents.

 

Bingo....! I don't either. That's why i continue flying with them.

[S V Choong 4]

 

Seriously.... have you had a look the routes you think SQ flies?

 

Edit: And or anybody else for that matter.......

Yeah they flew the same route as MH right? If they are putting people's life at risk, they do not deserve any support either. Doesn't matter if they are SQ or not. One lesson is a complete waste of lives, we don't need another.

 

Oh well looks like a stop at the UAE might be worth it after all.

Edited July 22, 2014 by S V Choong

[Cheng Long 0]

RUSSIA has provided an explosive alternative explanation of how Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 went down.

Speaking to the media, a high-ranking Russian military official implied that a Ukrainian fighter jet could be responsible for the disaster, not pro-Russian separatists.

 

The US claims its intelligence shows a ground-to-air missile launched from territory held by pro-Russian rebels brought the plane down on Thursday.

But Lieutenant-General Andrei Kartopolov said Russian flight records showed a Ukrainian military jet was flying just a few kilometres away from the Malaysia Airlines flight at the time it went down, The Independent reports.

 

The military aircraft, a SU-25, flew within three to five kilometres of the Boeing 777, according to Lt-Gen Kartopolov, and he went on to imply that it shot MH17 down.

He said SU-25s “can briefly climb up to 10,000m (and are) regularly equipped with air-to-air missiles R-60 that can capture and destroy targets of a distance up to 12km and up to 5km as guaranteed”.

 

Lt-Gen Kartopolov said the Russian Defence Ministry wanted to know “why the military jet was flying along (the same civil aviation lines) at almost the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane”.

He denied allegations that Russia had provided the pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine with Buk missile launchers.

 

He said Russia had evidence that Ukraine had stationed self-propelled, anti-aircraft Buk missile launchers near the rebel-held territory.

The military officials displayed slides, charts and images to illustrate their claims at the special air force briefing in Moscow.

 

Russia also called on the US to publish for public scrutiny the intelligence it had that showed the rebels were behind the attack.

The Ukraine Government, meanwhile, said it had photo and video evidence of how a Russian anti-aircraft missile system was moved across the territory controlled by Russian-backed militants.

 

Two hundred and ninety-eight people perished in when MH17 was brought down on Thursday.

 

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/ukrainian-military-jet-was-flying-near-mh17-when-it-was-shot-down-russia/story-fnizu68q-1226997531113