Alif A. F. 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2014 Watching major global news outlets such as CNN, BBC and AJE, it is clear which countries are 'running' the show in MH17 incident. M'sia is depicted as a victim with a lot less influence in global issue. We are being attempted to be tossed around. Our diplomatic relations with Russia reminds me of that during Pak Lah time, when the purchase of Sukhoi fighter jets from Russia was in return of import of palm oil. A lot of respect with Australia for pushing the Russians to cooperate, eventhough the Aussies are not really that politically influential in the global stage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Azman MN 1 Report post Posted July 21, 2014 Take announcements from Ukranian, Russian or the separatists with a barrel of salt. Anyways look at the number of airlines plying the exact same route in the week before the accident - MAS is in good company with KLM, Emirates & Etihad among others. It just sickens me to see people keep harping about this when they had the benefit of hindsight! List of Airlines Flying Through Donetsk by S Fariz, on Flickr - Infographics from spiegel.de Clearly, you can't leave it to airlines to decide such things who inevitably will take the shortest route. Eurocontrol and whoever is in charge should play a stronger role. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Waiping 12 Report post Posted July 21, 2014 There was quite a few buzz about a "lone" A380 caught over Syrian sky today. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2014/07/21/mh17-why-malaysia-airlines-must-be-confident-about-syria-safety/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xtemujin 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2014 Astro takes down ‘damage control’ articleMon 2014-Jul-21 @ MYT 09:15:48 am http://uppercaise.wordpress.com/2014/07/21/astro-takes-down-damage-control-article/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mohd Suhaimi Fariz 2 Report post Posted July 21, 2014 There was quite a few buzz about a "lone" A380 caught over Syrian sky today. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2014/07/21/mh17-why-malaysia-airlines-must-be-confident-about-syria-safety/ Apparently I was informed that with the closure of Ukrainian airspace, there is only three routings open for MAS to fly - one overflying Iran, one overflying Iraq & one overflying Syria. And Iraq is off the table as it was vetoed due to safety concerns even before MH17. So - does anyone propose flying across Maldives into South Africa and then up towards Europe? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johan Z 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2014 I agree with the lone commenter there. Why did the author only pick MH? I'm also curious about other operators. It's quite a detour to avoid Ukrainian airspace.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cire 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) OMG... this is too much to bear indeed. Photos on the net shows bodies laid on dirt road shoulder,and dragged and dumped on dumpster to be transported to refrigerated train. OMG!! The only consolation from this is the thoughts that the victims' souls are free of suffering, and that it is only their physical shell that is left on earth which no amount of harm can still be inflicted upon further. sigh.. so sad. Where is our Government's voice on this? We are not seeking which parties to blame (yet). We want access into the area to claims our departed' bodies back. Whatever unsalvageable close belongings, let the scums and armed vultures take! Let's get our members home. It is awfully silence on the part of our Gov. on this when dignitaries from the countries where its citizens are affected have continued to let their frustration being known and asserting demands for basic humantarian needs be exercised. Malaysia should organise a meeting with the countries where its citizens are affected, and consolidate their demands that the international team be allowed access immediately, and request UN troops to be deployed immediately to protect the team. The demand got to be a concerted effort to ensure maximum effectiveness to see through the demand. This may be the only way to move on if Russia washes his hands off Ukraine, and where the latter can't protect itself, therefore the UN will have to step in. Anyway, by the time such move is mobilised, hopefully the bodies are released and evidence handed over to the right officials immediately (less if the rebels demanded a ransom for it...) if not..sigh.. Edited July 21, 2014 by Cire Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Suzanne Goh 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2014 People are being ridiculous kicking our country and airline when it is down now. I for one am getting tired of this sh1t. If there's one thing i've learnt , it's that it's amazing to see how the country has united - sad it took this incident to light that passion, but happy to see that we can put aside our differences. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheng Long 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2014 OMG... this is too much to bear indeed. Photos on the net shows bodies laid on dirt road shoulder,and dragged and dumped on dumpster to be transported to refrigerated train. OMG!! The only consolation from this is the thoughts that the victims' souls are free of suffering, and that it is only their physical shell that is left on earth which no amount of harm can still be inflicted upon further. sigh.. so sad. Where is our Government's voice on this? We are not seeking which parties to blame (yet). We want access into the area to claims our departed' bodies back. Whatever unsalvageable close belongings, let the scums and armed vultures take! Let's get our members home. It is awfully silence on the part of our Gov. on this when dignitaries from the countries where its citizens are affected have continued to let their frustration being known and asserting demands for basic humantarian needs be exercised. Malaysia should organise a meeting with the countries where its citizens are affected, and consolidate their demands that the international team be allowed access immediately, and request UN troops to be deployed immediately to protect the team. The demand got to be a concerted effort to ensure maximum effectiveness to see through the demand. This may be the only way to move on if Russia washes his hands off Ukraine, and where the latter can't protect itself, therefore the UN will have to step in. Anyway, by the time such move is mobilised, hopefully the bodies are released and evidence handed over to the right officials immediately (less if the rebels demanded a ransom for it...) if not..sigh.. I thought the gov has already asked and is still asking for unrestricted and safe access. I understand a team of Malaysians already there and more will go, but plenty of restrictions over there at the moment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cire 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2014 People are being ridiculous kicking our country and airline when it is down now. I for one am getting tired of this sh1t. If there's one thing i've learnt , it's that it's amazing to see how the country has united - sad it took this incident to light that passion, but happy to see that we can put aside our differences. IMHO, if we remained a low key voice in this situation, naturally the "kicks" will come flying this way. As the owner of the plane, the responsibility lies heavier on us to ensure the impacts of this tragedy is soften as much as possible by being able to lead and take command to demand for a retrieval of both passengers, personal belongings and crucial evidence. An asserting demand, leading a consolidated effort in organising an international team and getting the UN to step in etc.will show that Malaysia is on top of things (if not leading the charge) to wanting to get the demand through. This will augurs well for both MAS and Malaysia who would be seen as being responsible and capable to handle such a situation. Maybe this is a fairy tale wish, or some would say we are a nobody that anyone would take note. Or perhaps some would say its best to practice diplomacies and talks more, rather than being gung-ho about it, but one thing is for sure, our presence is awfully low key at the moment, evidently shown by the lack of news exposure so far. As for the route to be taken and what's not, why bother with it since it is proven that MH17 is flying a legitimate route? Like MH370, news and suggestions are sensationalised to make sales/readership. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mohd Suhaimi Fariz 2 Report post Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) As for the route to be taken and what's not, why bother with it since it is proven that MH17 is flying a legitimate route? Like MH370, news and suggestions are sensationalised to make sales/readership. Because MH is now in the court of public opinion. It doesn't matter if it's flying on a legitimate route. It doesn't matter that a flight can't just fly willy nilly without an approved flight plan, or that they can't just overfly a country without care. It doesn't matter that getting overflight approval isn't easy & is fraught with bureaucratic complications & nonsense which the Flight Scheduling team had to deal with to get approval (why do you think MH17/MH370 flight number change had taken so long?) All that doesn't matter - if they've diverted out of Ukrainian airspace the passengers would be sipping cocktails by the beaches of Bali or safely home with family preparing for the upcoming Raya celebrations. Edited July 21, 2014 by Mohd Suhaimi Fariz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike P 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2014 Regardless of what other negative comments being given to MH, I feel really comfortable after reading the messages of condolences and sympathies from airlines all over the world at A Fly Guy's Cabin Crew Lounge, very touching and making me weeping. A Fly Guy's Cabin Crew Lounge Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johan Z 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2014 This is a video, showing the same Facebook page and a short interview with one of the cabin crew's parent: http://www.sbs.com.au/news/fragment/flight-crews-around-world-come-together-solidarity Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kenneth Chong WT 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2014 Watching the press conference anyone? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kenneth Chong WT 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2014 He didn't answer questions...just update on the recovering effort...black boxes also will be handed to the malaysian contigent... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KK Lee 5 Report post Posted July 21, 2014 Apparently I was informed that with the closure of Ukrainian airspace, there is only three routings open for MAS to fly - one overflying Iran, one overflying Iraq & one overflying Syria. And Iraq is off the table as it was vetoed due to safety concerns even before MH17. So - does anyone propose flying across Maldives into South Africa and then up towards Europe? What about over Romania, Black Sea, Turkey, Turkmenistan? All that doesn't matter - if they've diverted out of Ukrainian airspace the passengers would be sipping cocktails by the beaches of Bali or safely home with family preparing for the upcoming Raya celebrations. Unless safe passage is not a carrier's duty. If lightning could strike the same place twice, it could strike the 3rd time as it is Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Goh 1 Report post Posted July 21, 2014 What about over Romania, Black Sea, Turkey, Turkmenistan? I m not 100% sure but was told before that eurocontrol actually does have a say in which routing to take. Something like a one way west one way east route. Btw after turkmenistan still have to pass thru afghanistan is that ok? Unless safe passage is not a carrier's duty. If lightning could strike the same place twice, it could strike the 3rd time as it is Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mohd Suhaimi Fariz 2 Report post Posted July 21, 2014 What about over Romania, Black Sea, Turkey, Turkmenistan? Still have to go through Iran, Iraq or Syria to get to those points, not to mention Afghanistan & Pakistan. As for the Black Sea - it's closed. Unless safe passage is not a carrier's duty. The Ukrainian crisis has been going on since March - did any other airline lose their plane before MH17 due to ground-to-air missile? You want truly safe, might as well as stay cooped up at home (and even then you're not that safe!) because there's danger of something going wrong somewhere that'll affect you. Airlines do try to minimize it to the best of their abilities, but sometimes things just intersect to form the perfect storm & things like the downing of MH17 happens. Come on, be honest - how many here are familiar with the Buk Missile System before MH17 was shot down? How many here even knows that the Ukrainian Crisis is still underway, what with the furore over the Palestine-Israel crisis taking centre stage? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mohd Azizul Ramli 2 Report post Posted July 21, 2014 Putin did visit Malaysia before Dr M stepped down. I think Russia also values its ties to Malaysia and it should do everything it could to assist and admit if it was responsible. I have a vivid memory of Putin getting down the stairs while being applauded by the delegates of the OIC Summit at the Putrajaya International Convention Center where he gave a speech. i'm not saying Russia shouldn't be held accountable, the should at least be forcing those rebels they're supporting to allow access to the crash site... I would suggest everyone to watch the miniseries The Americans. Good layman intro if you would like to know the Russian and how they work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hakan 2 Report post Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) What about over Romania, Black Sea, Turkey, Turkmenistan? After Eurocontrol ceased flight over Ukranian airspace, serious amount overflight crossing over Turkey and then continue to Iran airpsace. In my opinion, except north of Russia routes, this is the safer way to keep out "warm" places. I'm not sure Syrian and Iraq airspace are safely. Besides a little bit southern side of Syria also another war places. Terrorist or rebels or who/whatever (!!!) may takes "example" of this fatal accident and may be attempt to attack another civillian planes (for claim to opposite side)which are flying over of mentioned airspaces. By flightradar24 datas and screens, many overflight changes the routes through Turkey. I believe this is one of the best options that is using Turkey and Iranian airspace to reach safe area. And yes, some of routes bypass Ukrainan airspace by Turkey airspace and then Southern Russia,Georgia,Armenian airspaces. Edited July 21, 2014 by Hakan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KK Lee 5 Report post Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Still have to go through Iran, Iraq or Syria to get to those points, not to mention Afghanistan & Pakistan. As for the Black Sea - it's closed. The Ukrainian crisis has been going on since March - did any other airline lose their plane before MH17 due to ground-to-air missile? You want truly safe, might as well as stay cooped up at home (and even then you're not that safe!) because there's danger of something going wrong somewhere that'll affect you. Airlines do try to minimize it to the best of their abilities, but sometimes things just intersect to form the perfect storm & things like the downing of MH17 happens. Come on, be honest - how many here are familiar with the Buk Missile System before MH17 was shot down? How many here even knows that the Ukrainian Crisis is still underway, what with the furore over the Palestine-Israel crisis taking centre stage? If Black sea, Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan is off limit, why MH is still over flying there very recently as per flightradar24 history? Northerly route over Poland, Belarus, Russia, Kazakhstan, China, Burma/Thailand is not a unfamiliar route. Believe MH shared your sentiment on Ukrainian crisis hence didn't review the risk regularly even though a number of planes were shot down recently. Edited July 21, 2014 by KK Lee Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zeqa 1 Report post Posted July 21, 2014 black box handed to Malaysian officials. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mohd Azizul Ramli 2 Report post Posted July 21, 2014 Moments of truth. PM Najib has reached an agreement with the separatist Commander: http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/mh17.html 1. All remains will be transported by train from Torez to Kharkiv, then flown to Amsterdam for most mortem. The remains of the Malaysian will be then flown home from Amsterdam. 2. The 2 black boxes will be handed over to the Malaysian authority. 3. International investigation team will be given unrestricted access into the crash site for full scale investigation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mohd Azizul Ramli 2 Report post Posted July 21, 2014 Some airlines still flew above Ukraine post-avoidance warning. Apparently I was informed that with the closure of Ukrainian airspace, there is only three routings open for MAS to fly - one overflying Iran, one overflying Iraq & one overflying Syria. And Iraq is off the table as it was vetoed due to safety concerns even before MH17. So - does anyone propose flying across Maldives into South Africa and then up towards Europe? I am very unhappy with the MH4 fiasco today, as if MH never really learnt a thing from the tragedy. Can the folks at the route planning copy the flight plan of BA's SIN-LHR or AF's KUL-CDG? I am sure it is not that difficult to do. Tracking BA15 (LHR-SIN), MH1 (LHR-KUL) and SQ321 (LHR-SIN) now. BA15 chose the routing to the north, getting around Ukraine through Poland, Lithuania, Belarus and Russia. MH1 on the other hand, chose the southern routing avoiding Ukraine through Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary and now in Romania. SQ321 chose even a more northerly route, avoiding Ukraine through the Baltic Sea, Lithuania and now in Belarus. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cire 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2014 Not here to push the responsibility of flight routes to the pilots, but I remembered reading that the pilots can make the ultimate deciisions as to which routes to take. Now, in such a situation where the pilots have decided to take a calculated longer route against the norm, would there be any adverse consequences to the pilots from their employers? On another note, there is some progress made by the Malaysian government who "worked quietly behind the scenes" to secure the releases of the bodies and black boxes. Interesting. A pat on the back then. Aerial view of the crash site. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites