MAS B772 9M-MRO Flight MH370 KUL-PEK Missing with All 239 POB Presumed Killed

[KK Lee 5]

Perhaps it is the lack of finger pointing that has caused the situation? The acting minister of transport was well aware that the aircraft had been tracked over the peninsula, with contact lost to the west of Malaysia - by 0900 that same morning. He then withheld that information from the SAR authorities. This is an action which can only be seen as irresponsible. Some may argue it to be so irresponsible as to be worthy of criminal prosecution. This deliberate withholding of information meant that not only were any survivors, if such there were, given no chance to survive, the chance of finding any debris whilst it was still floating was very slim. This individual, when questioned about why TUDM did not intercept an unresponsive large jet in Malaysian air space, stated that the only thing that interception could achieve was to shoot the aircraft down. Demonstrating any lack of competence in either the military or transport roles, both of which should be well aware of the role of military interception in assisting (rather than shooting down, which is illegal) unresponsive civil aircraft that may be in distress. What should have happened is that 9M-MRO should have been intercepted, using the procedures that every civil and military pilot is familiar with, and directed to the nearest suitable airport. Were that direction not to be followed, valuable information may yet have been gained by the intercepting aircraft as to the nature of what was going on, the search area would have been greatly reduced, and with good management and the co-operation of regional partners, the aircraft could have been tracked considerably further, perhaps even as far as the furtherest search area that has been searched to date.

 

There is not enough finger pointing. And finger pointing is not enough.

 

According to people who are familiar with military radar; Malaysia has overstated the capability of RMAF radar. Hence, confusion and speculative was order of the day.

[Cire 0]

...so, since someone made a wrong decision and therefore to save the face and pride of the country or individuals, there will never be a correction to the misinformation or admittance to the mistake? News just announced that the search will end in May 2015. Its not too far away considering the vast search area. Will Malaysia activate a simultaneous search in the suspicion areas such as the Gulf of Bengal or taking another look of the South Chinese Seas, South of Vietnam?

[Mohd Suhaimi Fariz 2]

...so, since someone made a wrong decision and therefore to save the face and pride of the country or individuals, there will never be a correction to the misinformation or admittance to the mistake? News just announced that the search will end in May 2015. Its not too far away considering the vast search area. Will Malaysia activate a simultaneous search in the suspicion areas such as the Gulf of Bengal or taking another look of the South Chinese Seas, South of Vietnam?

 

They have already taken their lumps for the past few months so why bother rehashing old news. What will it achieve?

 

It's better to focus on the future & strategize on how to find that plane and actually doing it.

[Paul Saccani 0]

 

According to people who are familiar with military radar; Malaysia has overstated the capability of RMAF radar. Hence, confusion and speculative was order of the day.

I'm not sure what you have in mind here, according to people who are familiar with Malaysian military radar capabilities, the capabilities haven't been overstated. At least not in the public remarks that have been made. Under the five power defence arrangements, regular use is made of Malaysian Air Defence Radars at the HQ Integrated Area Defence System, and nothing described in public is inconsistent with the performance that has been demonstrated over the years in five power exercises, such as ADEX, FLYING FISH, SUMAN WARRIOR, SUMAN PROTECTOR, BERSAMA LIMA, BERSAMA PADU, STARFISH, and most recently, BERSAMA SHIELD 2014. None of what has been stated publicly is inconsistent with the technical performance demonstrated in these exercises.

 

Remember, the TUDM radar observations have actually been subject to public scrutiny, with the exception of the technical matters of the identification method used with non-cooperative targets (which quite correctly should not be public), and 9M-MRO was correctly identified by TUDM as it passed over the peninsula. This information was correctly passed on to the minister before 0900 on the morning of the disappearance - he elected not to inform the SAR authority, until after Inmarsat had finally been taken seriously. This is a matter of public record.

 

I'm puzzled as to where you get the idea that Malaysia's Air Defence Radar capabilities have been overstated. To my direct knowledge, it has not been overstated. The biggest problem, outside of what actually happened on 9M-MRO, has been the actions of one man, which has made the search phase exceedingly difficult. The technical performance of the systems involved was and is more than ample to the task. Leadership seems to have been lacking at several levels. One might even say that even a shred of common sense has often been lacking at high levels.

They have already taken their lumps for the past few months so why bother rehashing old news. What will it achieve?

 

It's better to focus on the future & strategize on how to find that plane and actually doing it.

 

What lumps are these? How many heads have rolled? What it will achieve is a better quality of leadership. If you want to focus on the future, you can not ignore past poor performance that has not been used to improve future performance. Lessons have not been learnt. Lessons do need to be learned. Continuous improvement, rather than continuous decline is what Malaysia and Malaysians deserve. This horrific case has offered tremendous opportunities for improvement at a very expensive price in lives, treasure and lost prestige - this should not be squandered, given the heavy price already paid.

[Mohd Suhaimi Fariz 2]

Actually Paul, to say that nothing was done with the information is false - as early as the second day of the incident a small scale search was launched around the Malacca Straits as per this report by the Wall Street Journal on March 9: http://blogs.wsj.com/indonesiarealtime/2014/03/09/malaysia-widens-search-of-missing-jet-to-strait-of-malacca/

 

Now there are many reason to speculate on why the information about the radar details was not made public for a while - maybe the contact was not firm & to announce it immediately & getting it wrong woukd result in an even bigger loss of face. Maybe fog of war set in and the people involved required time to piece together whatever info that's available to make sense of what's going on. Maybe everyone was dead set that Romeo Oscar crashed in the South China Sea that they block any other alternative theories, especially since news of oil slicks & debris sightings are coming in fast & thick from the search team. Don't forget that at that time, MH370 was the biggest crisis in Malaysian history & whatever preparation done may not have been enough. So confusion is hardly unexpected.

 

As for lessons learnt - the handling of MH17 is somewhat of a proof that lessons HAD been learnt from the MH370 disaster. Better communication flow, calm handling of the situation, quiet diplomacy instead of fingerpointing & angry rhetoric meant that MH17 was better handled than MH370.

 

Not that it means anything.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Mohd Suhaimi Fariz

[Azman MN 1]

Paul, this is what is in the article:

 

"The daily said it was only when Britain's Air Accidents Investigation Branch took Inmarsat's finding seriously that Malaysian authorities changed their mind, five days later."

 

I guess you know more about the story behind the story.

 

 

 

Sorry Azman, but that is not the case at all. The UK AAIB helped Inmarsat to present their information to the Malaysians as soon as they were asked to do so. It was the Malaysians that rejected the data for five days, until Inmarsat teamed with the UK AAIB to persuade them to do otherwise. The article does not say that the UK AIIB did nothing for five days, it says, quite correctly, that the Malaysians did not want to know about the data for five days, until the UK AAIB helped Inmarsat to persuade the Malaysian authorities to heed it.

 

And all of that occurred because Immarsat took the initiative to see what they could determine with the data they had, and informed the Malaysian authorities within 24 hours of the aircraft losing contact, and then, when the Malaysian Authorities choose to reject that information, went to the AAIB in an attempt to get their data seen as the vital information that it was.

 

In my view, the acting minister of transport, in choosing to conceal that he knew the aircraft was West of the Peninsula, as he knew at 0900 on the morning of the disappearance, and then having the search conducted to the East of Malaysia is, the say least, reckless and irresponsible.

[Mike P 0]

A mystery where the plane will never be found and it will never be solved.

[Paul Saccani 0]

Paul, this is what is in the article:

 

"The daily said it was only when Britain's Air Accidents Investigation Branch took Inmarsat's finding seriously that Malaysian authorities changed their mind, five days later."

 

I guess you know more about the story behind the story.

 

 

 

 

G'day Azman,

 

You are misinterpreting that, AIIB took it seriously *as soon as Inmarsat contacted them*, in relation to the the second clause in the sentence, that this happened five days after the Malaysian side rejected what Inmarsat had told them. It did not take the AIIB five days to take it seriously - more like ten minutes. It is a lot clearer in the original article in the West Australian.

 

It's an easy mistake to make, and your English is a lot better than my Malay.

 

Regards,

Paul

[Azman MN 1]

Paul, mind posting the original article? Thanks.

[Hakan 2]

As can as I see, there is no result of this accident still. I wonder to know, is there any serious enemy of Malaysia that they can be attempt to make any threat such as hijack an airplane? (inside or outside)

[S V Choong 4]

As can as I see, there is no result of this accident still. I wonder to know, is there any serious enemy of Malaysia that they can be attempt to make any threat such as hijack an airplane? (inside or outside)

 

May be Malaysia itself doesn't, but it may involved other foreign powers in the play. MH370 became a scape goat.

[Paul Saccani 0]

Paul, mind posting the original article? Thanks.

It was written by Geoffery Thomas, the West Australian's aviation reporter. I don't have the West's version, but I do have a media release which is almost word for word the same.

 

http://medianet.com.au/releases/release-details?id=817788

 

MH370: Malaysia ignored crucial evidence

Perth, Australia (December 15, 2014)

Malaysian authorities rebuffed satellite evidence

Critical days were lost in the search for MH370 because Malaysian

authorities initially rejected evidence from the British satellite

company that the Boeing 777 with 239 aboard was in the Southern

Indian Ocean.

British sources told AirlineRatings.com Editor Geoffrey Thomas that

within 24 hours of the disappearance of MH370 on March 8,

Inmarsat advised the relevant Malaysian authorities of their findings

but were rebuffed.

“They didn’t want to know,” said the source.

AirlineRatings.com Editor Geoffrey Thomas said that the revelation

was “deeply disturbing and adds to the disbelief over the initial

search and investigation” into the disappearance of MH370.

“It is little wonder there are so many conspiracy theories,” noted Mr

Thomas.

“Many have said the initial search was a shambles and with the latest

revelations I would have to agree.”

Inmarsat then approached the UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch

(AAIB) with its data and it immediately recognized the significance.

The British satellite company was contracted to provide a data link to

the Malaysian Airlines fleet and continued to get a signal every hour

from MH370 till 8.19am Perth time.

The Malaysian authorities were forced to take the findings seriously

when the AAIB teamed with Inmarsat to represent the data around

March 14 – five days after the Boeing 777 disappeared.

About AirlineRatings.com

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has been used by millions of passengers from 232

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For more information, contact:

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Email: Geoffrey.Thomas@AirlineRatings.com

You can also take a look at;

MH370: Malaysia rejected evidence

Geoffrey Thomas AirlineRatings.com14 Dec 2014

Critical days were lost when Malaysian authorities rejected evidence from Inmarsat just 24 hours after MH370 went missing.

MAS 777

MAS 777

Initial search in Southern Indian Ocean

Critical days were lost in the search for MH370 because Malaysian authorities initially rejected evidence from the British satellite company that the Boeing 777 with 239 aboard was in the Southern Indian Ocean.

 

British sources have told AirlineRatings.com that within 24 hours of the disappearance of MH370 on March 8, Inmarsat advised the relevant Malaysian authorities of their findings but were rebuffed. “They didn’t want to know,” said the source.

 

Inmarsat then approached the UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) with its data and it immediately recognized the significance.

The British satellite company was contracted to provide a data link to the Malaysian Airlines fleet and continued to get a signal every hour from MH370 till 8.19am Perth time.

 

Those signals were picked up from its satellite 38,000km above the Indian Ocean and were relayed via a ground station in Perth.

The Malaysian authorities were forced to take the findings seriously when the AAIB teamed with Inmarsat to represent the data around March 14 – five days after the Boeing 777 disappeared.

 

It also took days before the Malaysian military radar tracking data was made available. That data showed that MH370 had changed course and flown across Malaysia toward the Andaman Sea but the search continued in the South China Sea east of the country.

 

On March 16 the search was moved to the Southern Indian Ocean with the first aerial searches being conducted from Perth on March 18 – 10 days after the MH370 disappeared. Oceanographers agree that any chance of spotting a major debris field was lost.

 

After ten days much of the debris that would have initially floated would have become waterlogged and sunk or been broken up in the heavy seas.

And those seas and the prevailing currents would have spread the debris field far and wide.

 

There has been much debate about the Inmarsat satellite data which is the basis of the search in the Southern Indian Ocean. However, the world’s most respected air crash investigation units the US National Transportation Safety Board, the AAIB, the Australian Transport Safety Bureau and the French BEA, as well as Boeing and Rolls Royce agree on the validity of the data.

 

However, not everyone is convinced with a vocal critic being Sir Tim Clark President of Emirates the world’s largest international airline.

 

In a recent exclusive interview Mr Clark told AirlineRatings.com that he believes there is an international cover-up. He warned that there has not been “full transparency of everything that everybody knows.”

- See more at: http://www.airlineratings.com/news/407/mh370#sthash.MyK28dWa.dpuf

Hope this helps,

Paul

[Mohd Azizul Ramli 2]

Does MH installing the same device to its aircrafts too?

 

Or slow as usual?

 

 

AirAsia Upgrading Jets for Improved Tracking; Flight 8501 Not Modified

Move Underscores Industry Debate on How and How Fast to Adopt Tracking Technology

By JON OSTROWER And ROBERT WALL

Updated Dec. 29, 2014 4:54 p.m. ET

AirAsia ’s fleet of short-haul jets was already being upgraded to make them easier to track, but the airline hadn’t yet modified the aircraft that lost contact with air-traffic controllers over the weekend and remains missing.

The budget airline is an early adopter of a dedicated tracking service, pre-empting an industry push to comprehensively follow planes in flight.

AirAsia, which owns 49% of the Indonesian carrier, had earlier this year begun deploying satellite communications on some of its A320s to provide position updates every two minutes, said Chris McLaughlin, vice president external affairs at satellite services provider Inmarsat PLC. The missing plane wasn’t yet modified, he said. Inmarsat provides access to the satellite network on which the tracking service runs.

Air Asia’s move underscores a broader debate in the aviation community about how and how fast to adopt tracking technology. That debate ratcheted up significantly after the disappearance earlier this year of Malaysia Airline’s Flight 370.

Full Wall Street Journal Report Here: https://www.google.com.my/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB0QqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsj.com%2Farticles%2Fairasia-upgrading-jets-for-improved-tracking-flight-8501-not-modified-1419886373&ei=5QCiVJS_Ac6cugTYxIHgCQ&usg=AFQjCNG-VqTlr8L8jleiTyaDEaTHwdb1gg&sig2=YZd4hs5aw7S-GHONivk8aw&bvm=bv.82001339,d.c2E

 

 

[S V Choong 4]

Recap... A bit of old news:

 

 

 

One of the many baffling aspects of the MH370 disappearance is the absence of radar data after the plane left Malaysian primary coverage at 18:22 UTC. If, as is generally presumed, the plane took a sharp left turn shortly afterward and flew into the southern ocean, it should have remained visible to Indonesian radar for more than an hour. Yet Indonesian military officials insist that nothing appeared on their radar screens.

This is an issue that has gotten less attention than it deserves, and for understandable reasons. Indonesia is a developing country, and a sprawling one at that. With a land area the size of Western Europe, it spans the same east-to-west distance as the continental United States. So one might reasonably assume that the country lacks the ability to comprehensively monitor its airspace. Why shouldn’t MH370 have passed through without a trace?

In fact, though, Indonesia has quite a capable air defense radar system, and one which it utilizes quite aggressively. In the last month alone, its air force has intercepted three civilian planes which wandered into the national airspace without first getting the proper permission.

The westernmost part of the country is covered by the Indonesian Air Force’s Radar Unit 231 at Lhokseumawe in Aceh, Northern Sumatera. The unit is equipped with a Thomson-CSF TRS-2215 radar, the type pictured above. The system, Indonesian military officials say, is capable of detecting aircraft up to 240 nautical miles away.

It demonstrated its capability last year, when the unit detected a Dornier 328 twin turboprop entering Indonesian airspace from the west. The plane was ordered to land at Sultan Iskandar Muda airport in Banda Aceh. It turned out to be a US Air Force Special Operations plane carrying five crewmembers; the pilot claimed he had been running low on fuel and didn’t realize that his paperwork to enter the country had expired. After being impounded for a few days the plane and its crew were allowed to leave.

Based on its specs alone, Radar Unit 231 (so much easier to spell than Lhokseumawe!) should easily have been able to detect MH370. The radar track released by the Australian Transport Safety Board (ATSB) in June shows that the plane came within 60 nautical miles of the installation before it disappeared from Malaysian and/or Thai military radar. Afterwards, according to the consensus view, the plane’s track should have stayed within the radar’s viewing range as it headed west, made a turn to the south, and proceeded into the southern Indian Ocean. (See map after the jump)

So how could the Indonesians have seen nothing?

 

Read more at:

 

MH370 and the mystery of Indonesian Radar

http://jeffwise.net/2014/11/18/mh370-and-the-mystery-of-indonesian-radar/

 

Indonesian Govt insists MH370 did not fly into Indonesian airspace

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2014/03/26/govt-insists-mh370-did-not-fly-indonesian-airspace.html

Edited December 31, 2014 by S V Choong

[Mohd Firdaus Bolong 0]

Press conference 330 pm. Lots of speculation but as always most of them are theories and assumption. Hoping for positive news.

[Fahiruz 0]

Press conference 330 pm. Lots of speculation but as always most of them are theories and assumption. Hoping for positive news.

 

PC cancelled without giving any reason. ohmy!

[Mohd Suhaimi Fariz 2]

PC cancelled without giving any reason. ohmy!

Family members unexpectedly appeared, and I guess what they wanted to present will not please the families one bit.

 

It's time to end this farce & Just declare the loss of Romeo Oscar already. It's like only one month & a few days away from the 1st anniversary and what good is there to prolong the inevitable? The answers will come, but not this way.

[Mohd Firdaus Bolong 0]

Agree with you suhaimi. I think its mainky due to presence of next of kins. But then if they really want to announce something painful,why dont prevent the NOKs to enter the media room in the first place.

[Mohd Suhaimi Fariz 2]

Agree with you suhaimi. I think its mainky due to presence of next of kins. But then if they really want to announce something painful,why dont prevent the NOKs to enter the media room in the first place.

They probably didn't anticipate the NOKs & to shoo them away, albeit in a polite way, would be a PR fail.

[BC Tam 2]

The Malaysian government has officially declared the disappearance of MH370 an accident and has said that there were no survivors.

from: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-31039460

Reality check I suppose

 

 

They probably didn't anticipate the NOKs & to shoo them away, albeit in a polite way, would be a PR fail.

Were the NOKs informed about the announcement before scheduled PC ?

 

Dunno, but cancelling a PC at this stage seem to me an even bigger PR fail than having to face the inevitable questions. Perhaps the NOKs' underlying sentiments have been underestimated, or no one had the stomach to face it as it is

Edited January 29, 2015 by BC Tam

[Azman MN 1]

Why can't they do a simple thing like trying their best to inform family members first, instead of going straight to the press?

[flee 5]

Why can't they do a simple thing like trying their best to inform family members first, instead of going straight to the press?

Accountability is something that is in short supply in the Malaysian government.

[JuliusWong 0]

Accountability is something that is in short supply in the Malaysian government.

Very very short......it's actually nil.

[Mohd Suhaimi Fariz 2]

Why can't they do a simple thing like trying their best to inform family members first, instead of going straight to the press?

This was why MAS had to send those SMSes back when Najib made his announcement two weeks after it was reported missing because they keep wanting to rush things.

 

Don't know why they need to do that to be honest.

[Suzanne Goh 0]

Accounta what ? Please don't use big words malaysian gahmen don't understand. Considered very rude you know