MAS B772 9M-MRO Flight MH370 KUL-PEK Missing with All 239 POB Presumed Killed

[Cire 0]

Bluefin-21's first mission was aborted 6 hours into the operation after it exceeded its operating depth limit.

 

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2014/04/15/mh370-search-bluefin-aborted/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

It looks like there are still places here on earth that Man is not able to conquer, depthness of the ocean is one of them.

China is contemplating to mobilise its own deep sea vessel, the Sea Dragon. The manned vessel recently broke the record of being able to dive to a depth of 7,000m.

China’s Actions in Hunt for Jet Are Seen as Hurting as Much as Helping

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/15/world/asia/chinas-efforts-in-hunt-for-plane-are-seen-as-hurting-more-than-helping.html?hp&_r=0

 

The mightier you are, the harder you fall. China have a huge stake in this search. It has to both show the world and its countrymen what it can do and deliver. A matter of chewing too much than one could swallow. Nevertheless, I would say that without the Chinese stepping in head-on into the search, the rest of the world may have responded much slower to the crisis.

I would now think who can last the longest here in this marathon search. The Chinese, US or the Australians?

[S V Choong 4]

In the first week of the search, China released satellite photographs purportedly showing wreckage in the South China Sea. The objects, however, turned out to be unrelated debris. The claim eventually elicited a rebuke from Malaysian officials that China had wasted the time of other nations looking for the missing Boeing 777-200.

The Malaysian government wasted a lot of time and money by not disclosing what's on their radar - and that the plane turned a different direction. It is easier to blame someone else apparently!

[hafiziza 0]

"How come what the Australians are saying doesn't add up?" asked one Chinese family member of missing Malaysia Airways flight MH370. "The Australians are even less trustworthy than the Malaysians" said another.

 

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/nation-and-world/14-false-leads-malaysia-airlines-search

 

Of course. No one can be trusted. Except the Chinese Government. With their handheld hydrophone.

 

 

MH370 Tragedy: US denies MH370 'cover-up

 

Commenting on allegations hurled against Malaysia that it had been holding back information, he said, "This is a difficult search and investigation from a technical perspective and, in many ways, is a one-of-a-kind event in aviation history.

 

http://www.nst.com.my/nation/general/font-color-red-mh370-tragedy-font-us-denies-mh370-cover-up-1.567390?cache=03

Edited April 15, 2014 by hafiziza

[geoff.leo 0]

It's a very easy conclusion to make. Because the Malaysian government doesn't have a culture of transparency and is plagued by so much incompetency at so many levels in everyday life, the natural thing to do would be to use those factors to justify the easy conclusions that one would make in a case which quite genuinely has had very little concrete leads.

 

But lets consider this.

 

I really do not think the Malaysians would have gotten this amount of support from so many countries if they weren't forthcoming in sharing the information they had.

 

The Americans, Australians, New Zealanders, Japanese, Koreans, Indians and British would not have provided this amount of help if the Malaysians tried to be funny. And of course there were many other countries involved too in the initial weeks.

 

These guys have contributed some of their most expensive and sophisticated equipment, both military and civilian. To a certain degree, this has also come at the expense of their own national security.

 

Granted, there may be strategic motives for showing this level of support.

 

There is also a collective need among the international community, not least of all those in aviation and national security, in wanting to get to the bottom of this mystery.

 

But this operation will cost their respective taxpayers hundreds of millions when all is done and dusted. Invoices will probably be sent to Malaysia eventually, but lets just say it's not the most profitable business in the world.

 

There is a natural sense of moral obligation of course, but just that alone won't be enough for the astounding level of commitment we've seen for the past 5-6 weeks.

 

So at the end of the day, the level of help will only commensurate with the level of cooperation given by the one seeking help.

 

You want help? Sure thing buddy. Anytime. But first, show me what you've got. Then we'll play ball.

[BC Tam 2]

But this operation will cost their respective taxpayers hundreds of millions when all is done and dusted. Invoices will probably be sent to Malaysia eventually, but lets just say it's not the most profitable business in the world.

I doubt too whether the ensuing debt recovery will be pursued with any urgency

Not unless and until there is diplomatic gains to be had in doing so that is

[flee 5]

The costs are marginal - even without this operation, they still need to operate training missions to keep the men and machines fully prepared for operational missions.

[Paul Saccani 0]

It's a very easy conclusion to make. Because the Malaysian government doesn't have a culture of transparency and is plagued by so much incompetency at so many levels in everyday life, the natural thing to do would be to use those factors to justify the easy conclusions that one would make in a case which quite genuinely has had very little concrete leads.

 

But lets consider this.

 

I really do not think the Malaysians would have gotten this amount of support from so many countries if they weren't forthcoming in sharing the information they had.

 

The Americans, Australians, New Zealanders, Japanese, Koreans, Indians and British would not have provided this amount of help if the Malaysians tried to be funny. And of course there were many other countries involved too in the initial weeks.

 

These guys have contributed some of their most expensive and sophisticated equipment, both military and civilian. To a certain degree, this has also come at the expense of their own national security.

 

Granted, there may be strategic motives for showing this level of support.

 

There is also a collective need among the international community, not least of all those in aviation and national security, in wanting to get to the bottom of this mystery.

 

But this operation will cost their respective taxpayers hundreds of millions when all is done and dusted. Invoices will probably be sent to Malaysia eventually, but lets just say it's not the most profitable business in the world.

 

There is a natural sense of moral obligation of course, but just that alone won't be enough for the astounding level of commitment we've seen for the past 5-6 weeks.

 

So at the end of the day, the level of help will only commensurate with the level of cooperation given by the one seeking help.

 

You want help? Sure thing buddy. Anytime. But first, show me what you've got. Then we'll play ball.

 

You bring up many insightful issues. The only thing I would disagree with is the last line - I don't think many countries would take that attitude.

 

You are right not to ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence (much of which is a result of that lack of transparency and excessive secrecy, that which resulted in the decision making part of the government not having information that was held by other arms of government).

 

It isn't all largesse to Malaysia, though certainly the first week was.

 

The SAR is an Australian responsibility. Malaysia is assisting Australia with SAR assets, as are these other countries. So there is an element of goodwill on all sides to all parties, I feel. Both Australia and Malaysia have needed help to do this task effectively, and both Australia and Malaysia are not too proud to accept help, and thankfully many are willing to help.

 

Having said that, you are quite correct with regard to it being more than simple "moral obligation". There is an interesting article in the current "Centre for Strategic and International Studies" which explores these factors. Though I would not advise simply accepting what is said in the article - except for the part about Australia suffering setbacks recently, which is pretty much on the money. But what it does point to is some of the factors at play, with powers wanting to be seen not only to have capability, but also a willingness to be good citizens and partners to the region. Perhaps you might call it prestige?

 

Still, the main thing is, good comes of it, and it is a better way to play the game of geo-politics than hostility and so forth.

 

The Australian SAR zone is, if I recall correctly, the largest in the world, and it is our obligation to provide it, though with a population smaller than Malaysia and some of the most challenging seas in the world, it can be difficult at times, so with this search, we (Malaysia and Australia) are extremely lucky to be able to benefit from so much help - no matter the motivation.

 

This is the article https://csis.org/publication/australias-search-mh370-regional-leadership-through-hadr-and-search-and-rescue

apologies for it talking up Australia

 

This is an awful event, but perhaps great good can come from so many countries working together to a common goal.

I think Malaysia made an intelligent decision to have the technical investigation done by Australia - that way, when people come up with outlandish conspiracies, they won't be able to claim a Malaysian coverup.

 

At the least, they can blame Australia instead - but one hopes the issue won't arise.

I doubt too whether the ensuing debt recovery will be pursued with any urgency

Not unless and until there is diplomatic gains to be had in doing so that is

Most of the costs would be invoiced to Australia, if that kind of thing were to happen. Nations are obliged to provide SAR in their SARZONE - it isn't optional.

Malaysia might, as an act of grace, make a contribution, but even the help provided directly to the Malaysian SARZONE was provided willingly - there is no question of being charged for it later.

 

I do fear, however, that the way the Malaysian government has dealt with the matter in the first week in particular, has cost the country considerable prestige and has diminished foreign confidence.

I feel that most of this criticism is unwarranted and very often misguided, but such things as forcibly dragging grief stricken people away press conferences do considerable damage to how Malaysia is perceived internationally. That is part of the price that is being paid. I sure hope the government will provide enough support to MAS to allow it to survive this crisis, coming at a time when MAS is not in its best health.

The costs are marginal - even without this operation, they still need to operate training missions to keep the men and machines fully prepared for operational missions.

 

True to quite a large extent.

[leon t 0]

yes lets be honest and pragmatic abt this - and yes in the first week the govt did made some mistakes and had subsequently did make some u turns in their statements - that's all been documentated and captured in the video press conferences - and have been used by western media to the pointed facts when reporting on these discrepancies.

[hafiziza 0]

Jet Search Tests Beijing's Crisis Playbook

 

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303663604579503381216969684?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303663604579503381216969684.html

 

China Slams NYT Report Questioning Beijing's Role in Malaysia Jet Search

 

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2014/04/16/2014041600557.html

Chinese Families Skeptical Of Aussie Reports: 'Still One Percent Hope'

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/#/storyline/missing-jet/chinese-families-skeptical-aussie-reports-still-one-percent-hope-n79881

 

Why Chinese families will keep moving to Malaysia despite their anger over MH370

 

http://qz.com/196492/why-chinese-families-will-keep-moving-to-malaysia-despite-their-anger-over-mh370/#196492/why-chinese-families-will-keep-moving-to-malaysia-despite-their-anger-over-mh370/

Western reporters outshine Chinese counterparts on MH370

 

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/opinion/chinese-perspectives/Western-reporters-outshine-Chinese-counterparts-on-MH370/shdaily.shtml

[Cire 0]

It will be a whole new saga when/if the wreakage is found. It will start another new chapter of investigations, waiting, and unconfirmed answers. The relatives will once again go through the ordeal of finding out what actually happened onboard flight MH370.

While all these search and witch-hunts are going around, I wondered if there's any other mechanical or electronic security features are installed or rectified onboard commercial airlines now?

MAS with its "no single person in cockpit" rules, will it work? Probably a temporarily plan put in action to defuse wary passengers.

[iwan 3]

It will be a whole new saga when/if the wreakage is found. It will start another new chapter of investigations, waiting, and unconfirmed answers. The relatives will once again go through the ordeal of finding out what actually happened onboard flight MH370.

While all these search and witch-hunts are going around, I wondered if there's any other mechanical or electronic security features are installed or rectified onboard commercial airlines now?

MAS with its "no single person in cockpit" rules, will it work? Probably a temporarily plan put in action to defuse wary passengers.

True. And to think of after all these complications we are only still only in the 'search' portion of the operation with no new clues of what happened besides pure speculations in our heads.

 

It does intrigues me that the planes only can depend on the transponder for location id. Like you said, the un-informed mind like me would have expected a plane to have a location beacon that cannot be accessed or turned off considering how gps technology has evolved.

 

But coming to think about it, with the way the plane flew and 'disappeared', its hard to deny someone with prior knowledge flew and handled the aircraft. For reasons, im very afraid we will never know

[Paul Saccani 0]

It does intrigues me that the planes only can depend on the transponder for location id. Like you said, the un-informed mind like me would have expected a plane to have a location beacon that cannot be accessed or turned off considering how gps technology has evolved.

 

But coming to think about it, with the way the plane flew and 'disappeared', its hard to deny someone with prior knowledge flew and handled the aircraft. For reasons, im very afraid we will never know

Planes are not only dependant on transponders for transmitting their location. 9M-MRO was equipped with a satellite based system for automatically transmitting position reports. This was a commercial subscription service, and no subscription was paid for the service, so it did not operate. Pilots are generally unhappy with *any* system that they can't control if something goes wrong with it.

I don't think we have enough information yet to completely discount a "Ghost flight", as has happened several times in the past with crew incapacitation. The air defence radars inherently have considerable position and height uncertainties. In particular, the very rapid ascent and decent reported at the time of the turnback can easily be caused by the way a height finder radar works with a position indicating radar. With a low scan rate, an angle of elevation integrated with a position further away than at the time the height finder scanned would result in a very rapid increase in height being reported, followed by a very rapid decrease in height, even if the altitude was constant, let alone a decent initiated at the same time. The mumbled, incoherent reply received to a query to Malaysian 370 is the kind of thing often associated with ghost flights, when the crew has been incapacitated by hypoxia, but it is also the kind of thing that can happen with a crew oxygen mask on, which often makes communication difficult.

 

 

[Naim 6]

"The documentary will air on Discovery Channel tonight (April 16) at 9pm on Astro channel 551. There will be additional airings on Thursday, April 17, at 9am and 3pm; Saturday, April 19, at 4pm; and Sunday, April 20, at 9pm. "

 

RT @theSundaily: Special documentary on Flight 370 tonight | http://shar.es/T52kY

[Cire 0]

True. And to think of after all these complications we are only still only in the 'search' portion of the operation with no new clues of what happened besides pure speculations in our heads.

 

It does intrigues me that the planes only can depend on the transponder for location id. Like you said, the un-informed mind like me would have expected a plane to have a location beacon that cannot be accessed or turned off considering how gps technology has evolved.

 

But coming to think about it, with the way the plane flew and 'disappeared', its hard to deny someone with prior knowledge flew and handled the aircraft. For reasons, im very afraid we will never know

 

Perhaps we do know, in the near future, when they find the black box. Perhaps we will have a "message" in the cockpit voice recorder left by someone with a dead wish. We will find the black box. We will wait with bated breath for what's in the contents. A series of theories will come out...

[hafiziza 0]

Beijing-based naval expert Li Jie said it was "common practice" for countries to withhold sensitive digital data they receive until the data is analysed and publicly announced.

 

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1484983/china-hits-back-us-reports-criticising-beijing-over-mh370-search

[KK Lee 5]

Jet Search Tests Beijing's Crisis Playbook

 

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303663604579503381216969684?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303663604579503381216969684.html

 

China Slams NYT Report Questioning Beijing's Role in Malaysia Jet Search

 

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2014/04/16/2014041600557.html

Chinese Families Skeptical Of Aussie Reports: 'Still One Percent Hope'

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/#/storyline/missing-jet/chinese-families-skeptical-aussie-reports-still-one-percent-hope-n79881

 

Why Chinese families will keep moving to Malaysia despite their anger over MH370

 

http://qz.com/196492/why-chinese-families-will-keep-moving-to-malaysia-despite-their-anger-over-mh370/#196492/why-chinese-families-will-keep-moving-to-malaysia-despite-their-anger-over-mh370/

Western reporters outshine Chinese counterparts on MH370

 

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/opinion/chinese-perspectives/Western-reporters-outshine-Chinese-counterparts-on-MH370/shdaily.shtml

 

 

Beijing-based naval expert Li Jie said it was "common practice" for countries to withhold sensitive digital data they receive until the data is analysed and publicly announced.

 

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1484983/china-hits-back-us-reports-criticising-beijing-over-mh370-search

 

China gets taste of world criticism in MH370 hunt

http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/china-gets-taste-of-world-criticism-in-mh370-hunt

Relatives of MH370 passengers storm out of glitch-ridden MAS briefing, says report

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/relatives-of-mh370-passengers-storm-out-of-glitch-ridden-mas-briefing-says

 

After bulk cancellation of MH bookings, one can expect more response from the Chinese.

[hafiziza 0]

Sales of Malaysian products normal in China despite boycott call

 

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/sales-of-malaysian-products-normal-in-china-despite-boycott-call-bernama

[Cire 0]

Except for some news about search on and off the ocean, and the recent enmassed walk out of the China kins during a technical glitched video conference in China, the MH370 tragedy is overshadowed by yet another tragedy, the sinking of the Sewol, 20 km off the island of Byungpoong, South Korea.

What a tragedies year indeed.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Cire

[Cire 0]

Not to sound insensitive here, but the cost of the search have gone up.

News reported that the cost of the SAR have soared to RM97.7 million. Acting MOT dodged the question on where the funds will be from for the expected long search. He mentioned that Malaysia have friends out there who have adequate funds to go for the long haul.

[Waiping 12]

I hope not of those that stick they phone numbers on power pole etc.

[Cire 0]

I hope not of those that stick they phone numbers on power pole etc.

LOL....nope. I think he is talking about other countries like the US, and Australia, and perhaps China as well. Also mentioned that Malaysia might engage search contractors to carry out the work.

[Paul Saccani 0]

 

It was reported that Ocean Shield detected oil slick on the ocean surface, and have collected samples.

 

The 2 litre sample of oil picked up by ADV Ocean Shield didn't match any of the oil samples supplied by MAS, unfortunately.

[hafiziza 0]

Malaysia airliner search points up China's technology gap

 

http://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-china-malaysia-plane-20140417,0,883028.story#axzz2z9xfWw4k

[flee 5]

Media Release

17 April 2014—pm

At the recent media conference conducted by the Chief Coordinator of the Joint Agency Coordination Centre, Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston (Ret'd), said that the Australian Defence Vessel Ocean Shield had detected an oil slick on Sunday evening in her current search area.

Preliminary analysis of the sample collected by ADV Ocean Shield has confirmed that it is not aircraft engine oil or hydraulic fluid.

Additionally, Phoenix International, with the assistance of Bluefin, have assessed that there is a small but acceptable level of risk in operating the vehicle in depths in excess of 4,500 metres. This expansion of the operating parameters allows the Bluefin-21 to search the sea floor within the predicted limits of the current search area.

Some media reports today state that it would take Bluefin-21 anywhere from six weeks to two months to scan the entire underwater search area. This is incorrect.

Since the US Navy provided comment some days ago, the underwater search has been significantly narrowed through detailed acoustic analysis conducted on the four signal detections made by the Towed Pinger Locator on ADV Ocean Shield.

This analysis has allowed the definition of a reduced and more focused underwater search area. This represents the best lead we have in relation to missing flight MH370 and where the current underwater search efforts are being pursued to their completion so we can either confirm or discount the area as the final resting place of MH370.

Source: http://www.jacc.gov.au/media/releases/2014/april/mr026.aspx

[Cire 0]

Malaysia airliner search points up China's technology gap

 

http://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-china-malaysia-plane-20140417,0,883028.story#axzz2z9xfWw4k

 

A case of mis-matching of technology advancement. Here you are, having claimed the greatest manned deep sea vessel ever, is not able to be deployed for the MH370 search due to its aging 37 year old mother ship which the Chinese feared the ship may not be capable to fully operate in the South Indian ocean.

 

At the same time, I am curious to know whether the Bluefin 21 and Jialong are the only such vessels available in the world for deployment in such mission?

We can built billions worth of stealth aircrafts, but only one or two of such vessels that is available to conduct such SAR?

 

Similarly, in the latest Sewol disaster in South Korean, rescuers were seen helplessly looking at how best to rescued the trapped passengers, and probably borrowed some techniques from the movie - The Poseidon. Aren't there any special vessel or containment that could be submerged next to the ship to provide an escape route to the passengers?

 

It is not China alone that are stumped by the lack of suitable equipments for such unprecended situation involving a commercial aircraft. The tragedy have also woken up international community of the need to have a comprehensive range of SAR vessels that can carry out operations for situations that are far beyond what history have recorded. To anticipate a disaster. Perhaps Bill Gates should also contribute to build a couple of much more higher tech deep rescue sea vessels.

SAR specialty vessels should not be a one of its kind thing. It should be manufacturable.

 

The ocean is perhaps man's last frontier on earth that will never be fully understood.

 

 

Edited April 18, 2014 by Cire