MAS B772 9M-MRO Flight MH370 KUL-PEK Missing with All 239 POB Presumed Killed

[Azman MN 1]

Malaysian govt. is used to spin stories for Malaysian public and controlled mainstream media. Unfortunately, they are trying to do the same for this but the international (and free) media are more experienced and are looking for facts and evidence. They are casting a lot of doubt on the PM's statement.

 

I think PM is seriously premature in announcing the loss of the flight without a shred of physical evidence. Bad call.

If I recall correctly, the French PM made a similar announcement for AF447. Only one day after the disappearance. Simple - the plane did't land anywhere , so it must be in the water. It avoided leaving the family in limbo for a few days - it was a good call then, and giving the family some sort of closure is a good call.

[Waiping 12]

I think nobody would mention 'most likely crash/ditch into the sea'. U make your own judgement and they'd say they didn't say so.

[Newitt 0]

Li-ion battery fire burns with tonnes of fume and extremely hard to douse. 200kg means a large scale fire if they did catch fire.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Newitt

[flee 5]

He mentioned that the flight ended in the South Indian Ocean, but stayed well away from saying that MH370 have crashed into that part of the seas. He further added that the location is remote, and far from any possible landing sites.

He did not specifically mentioned that the plane did indeed crashed there. So, technically he did not confirm that MH370 have crashed, but merely implied that it could have crashed there with not much possibility of survival. Of course his demeanour that time was sombre with a hint of sadness in him.

We do not have independent investigative authorities like the AAIB, ATSB, BEA or NTSB. Even our DCA is prone to errors and the head of the DCA looked like a joke at the PCs.

 

Whatever it is, Malaysia's PM and his people did not inspire confidence. And the so called "information" that they are disclosing is incomplete, contradictory, untimely, and inconclusive. In other words, there is not much transparency. So the relatives of the victims are quite justified in accusing the authorities of lack of transparency and covering up the incident...

If I recall correctly, the French PM made a similar announcement for AF447. Only one day after the disappearance. Simple - the plane did't land anywhere , so it must be in the water. It avoided leaving the family in limbo for a few days - it was a good call then, and giving the family some sort of closure is a good call.

I think AF447 is a little different - it was transmitting ACARS data as it went down. So it was easier for the French PM to make that call.

Li-ion battery fire burns with tonnes of fume and extremely hard to douse. 200kg means a large scale fire if they did catch fire.

I wonder why Li Ion batteries are being shipped to China - I am under the impression that China manufactures a lot of these! If there is any shipping to be done, it should be in the opposite direction. So is there some illegal cargo on board falsely declared as Li Ion batteries, in the same manner as those corrosive chemicals on board the A332 many years ago?

[Azman MN 1]

We do not have independent investigative authorities like the AAIB, ATSB, BEA or NTSB. Even our DCA is prone to errors and the head of the DCA looked like a joke at the PCs.

 

Whatever it is, Malaysia's PM and his people did not inspire confidence. And the so called "information" that they are disclosing is incomplete, contradictory, untimely, and inconclusive. In other words, there is not much transparency. So the relatives of the victims are quite justified in accusing the authorities of lack of transparency and covering up the incident...

I think AF447 is a little different - it was transmitting ACARS data as it went down. So it was easier for the French PM to make that call.

I never defend Najib, but in this case, the info was given to him by AAIB. If AAIB gave the info to Cameron, what would he do?

The info is incomplete because it is in the hands of Inmarsat and AAIB ( who has put their reputation at stake), not sure where it is contradictory, how is it untimely ( too early? But so far they have been accused of being too slow in giving info. Or are they too late? But Inmarsat themselves figured this out just now) and inconclusive - can there be any other conclusion? The plane was out of fuel miles away from any airport in the worst sea condition imaginable.

[Newitt 0]

I wonder why Li Ion batteries are being shipped to China - I am under the impression that China manufactures a lot of these! If there is any shipping to be done, it should be in the opposite direction. So is there some illegal cargo on board falsely declared as Li Ion batteries, in the same manner as those corrosive chemicals on board the A332 many years ago?

 

Malaysia does manufacture lithium batteries. I have come across some lithium-polymer RC battery packs made in Malaysia. Also this page http://www.samsungsdi.com/battery/lithium-ion-battery.jsp says Malaysia is one of the countries their batteries are made in.

[Aaron Goh 1]

With what had been concluded now, I think what happened is a mixture of the Swissair Flight 111 and Helios Flight 522 tragedies.

 

The 200kg of lihtium ion battery caused a fire in the cargo comparement which caused failures to the aircraft system which leads to the aircraft changes altitudes and its course erratically. This then caused depressurisation and hypoxia, which leads to the aircraft flew as a ghost flight for 7 hours towards the south Indian Ocean until its ran out of fuel and eventually crashed.

 

I ruled out hijacking by the cockpit crew or any other POB.

Lithium batt can cause fire yes but not fly the plane to the indian ocean. And no if it burns aircraft systems it still cant key in the fms nor set the MCP. So what the relevance of lithium?

[Najib Ramli 0]

I think AF447 is a little different - it was transmitting ACARS data as it went down. So it was easier for the French PM to make that call.

 

 

it's not different at all...in the AF447 case they did not concede that they've lost the plane until noon despite all the ACARS data that they have indicating that the plane went down and they did not find any wreckage until day 5...

 

the inmarsat data only now (it was stated that the information was passed to AAIB on Sunday) disclosed that the plane headed south and last contact was in the Southern Indian ocean rather than anywhere North where there's possibility that the plane have landed...

 

so with the new information it's timely to announce that the plane is indeed gone......what else is the government suppose to say then?

[flee 5]

I never defend Najib, but in this case, the info was given to him by AAIB. If AAIB gave the info to Cameron, what would he do?

The info is incomplete because it is in the hands of Inmarsat and AAIB ( who has put their reputation at stake), not sure where it is contradictory, how is it untimely ( too early? But so far they have been accused of being too slow in giving info. Or are they too late? But Inmarsat themselves figured this out just now) and inconclusive - can there be any other conclusion? The plane was out of fuel miles away from any airport in the worst sea condition imaginable.

The info is from Inmarsat and they consulted the AAIB.

 

As the official from Inmarsat has mentioned, this info is only a small part of the total investigation. They do not know what other information that the Malaysian govt. has. All they are doing is contributing the information that they have in their possession.

 

The investigation is a shambles. No one appears to be responsible - there is no one heading the investigation. If it is Hisham (as the acting Minister of Transport), then there is a distinct lack of leadership. He appears more like a spokesman, reading statements. So who is directing the investigation now?

 

Australia has handed the lead back to Malaysia, now that the operations in the South Indian Ocean is no longer a SAR operation.

 

It is very sad that we have been exposed as incompetent, bungling country... Actually, to say that we are inexperienced is a little inaccurate. Just look at all those disasters like Highland Towers, Genting bus crash, lorry crashes on the Plus highway - all these disasters end up as mere statistics. Nothing much concrete was done to improve matters.

 

The report of the Genting bus crash recommended that we also establish a NTSB like authority to investigate matters relating to transport services. Lets hope and pray that we will indeed have such a body soon. It is so embarrassing to see incompetent and bungling politicians and officials in the world media limelight.

[Aaron Goh 1]

There are numerous keypoints I'm not understand, that this flight MH370 indeed full of mysterious questions~

 

1) What makes the coincidence of disappearance from Radar upon the exchange contact between Vietnam and Malaysia?

Could be just a coincidence that whatever happened happened at that point

 

2) What is the purpose of deactivating the transponder?

Deactivated or xponder malfunction no one knows, purpose if deactivated of cos its to avoid detection

 

3) What's the purpose of descending the aircraft to a lower altitude since they had made a statement that the military radar detected a blip?

No one knows

 

4) If blip is detected and unknown, the military aircraft should propose an intercepting flight. But there's no action taking place, Why?

Bcos msia is in peace time and theres no reason to get overly excited by some unidentified blip. Do you know that primary radar has lots of other blips incl every flight that passes thru the range of radar? All of it no ident cos its primary. Do you expect the jets to intercept every blip?

 

5) If emergency has been taken place, wouldn't be wise for pilots to fly straight ahead to land at Ho Chi Minh City since the plane is at high altitude and jettison the fuel if required?

If it was indeed an emergency depends on what is it? Its the pilots decision based on many factors, closest may not be the best sometimes closest may also need not be the fastest to reach etc etc etc, the AC can perfectly land overweight no biggie.

 

6) The endup of MH370 is located at South Indian Ocean, which is just West of Perth. The doubt I'm having here is if MH370 passes through Indonesia and Straits of Malacca, wouldn't they detect the aircraft from primary radars?

Same as point no 4

 

7) Previous posts showing that there's sightings of military radar in Thailand and Malaysia. If there's blip over Thailand , what's the course they are heading to? And what makes their flight alter from North to South which is not logical at all. And the fuel shouldn't be sufficient to reach over South Indian Ocean.

So was stated it went west than south. Fuel yes it can reach if it flew at optimum FL. Remember somewhere it stated that it had 49.1 tons of fuel, easily can make 8 hours flight time if not heavy and good FL.

 

Lastly, what's the purpose of altering the track from original flight path?

Only the whoever did it knows, thats why its called an investigation and dont expect investigation to be done in 15 days.

 

So many doubts yet still confusion exists. Plot Thickens.

Yes doubts in everyones mind incl investigators. Dont have to ask too many questions as once the investigation is complete we will all know.

The info is from Inmarsat and they consulted the AAIB.

 

As the official from Inmarsat has mentioned, this info is only a small part of the total investigation. They do not know what other information that the Malaysian govt. has. All they are doing is contributing the information that they have in their possession.

 

The investigation is a shambles. No one appears to be responsible - there is no one heading the investigation. If it is Hisham (as the acting Minister of Transport), then there is a distinct lack of leadership. He appears more like a spokesman, reading statements. So who is directing the investigation now?

 

Australia has handed the lead back to Malaysia, now that the operations in the South Indian Ocean is no longer a SAR operation.

 

It is very sad that we have been exposed as incompetent, bungling country... Actually, to say that we are inexperienced is a little inaccurate. Just look at all those disasters like Highland Towers, Genting bus crash, lorry crashes on the Plus highway - all these disasters end up as mere statistics. Nothing much concrete was done to improve matters.

 

The report of the Genting bus crash recommended that we also establish a NTSB like authority to investigate matters relating to transport services. Lets hope and pray that we will indeed have such a body soon. It is so embarrassing to see incompetent and bungling politicians and officials in the world media limelight.

Me thinkd u kinda hard on hishamuddin. Malaysia obviously lead the investigation. On what basis do you say no onr is respondible nor leading? What i see is hishamuddin did what he could, contacting and getting whatever help there is thats why the multinational search. What he released to the press he had released leads that are worth to pursue and credible data. Pls do not simply lisyen to what the press are bashing about. The press wanted info, but there was none so what could the minister do? Do you want your minister to give rumours like daily mail?

[KC Sim 2]

Although the PM did not say MH370 crashed into the sea, the MAS statement did mention that none of the plane's passengers and crew survived. Or have I been mistaken?

 

In any case, given the position (albeit estimated by Immarsat) of the final ping ... there is no land in sight even if the plane had flown for another 59 mins. It is therefore inconceivable that the plane could have landed somewhere. A ditching in that kind of sea condition is unthinkable and even if a successful ditching had been accomplished, it would not have stayed afloat for long, certainly not for 18 days.

 

I sympathise with those having to break this kind of news, a case of damn if you do and damn if you don't.

 

At today's press conference, both the Chairman and CEO of Malaysia Airlines seemed genuinely sad and the CEO at some stage seem to be fighting to stay composed. A pity too many of the media kept asking questions that will have no answers until some form of debris, the aircraft or the black box are found. After 18 days, some media folks just don't learn. And two of them asked what chance of survival for the passengers / crew if the aircraft did come down in that area ... duh? The waves are so high and the winds are so strong (not to mention the temperatures) ... if the HMS Success has to be taken out of the area due to weather, what do they think is the human survival chance?

 

KC Sim

[S V Choong 4]

 

With you on the fire theory. It will not last the entire 7 hours flight if there's a fire on board that is big enough to incapacitate the souls on board.

As for suicide or foul play, what have happened to the passengers and cabin crews during this long hours?

Are they all incapacitated as well or hold at bay with some threats? Why none of them attempted to make calls out to seek help? At 12,000feet, it would be some possibility to make calls. What about satellite phones?

 

Is the report correct that at Igari point, the plane ascended to 45,000ft and then descended rapidly afterwards? If its true, then the passengers would have been rendered unconcious or even death for some. Can such devious work be carried out by a single person? 1 over 238 souls?

 

The fire would probably not last more than 30 mins and probably ended with a mid-air explosion.

 

I have read that the aircraft's speed will not enable it to register with the cellular stations. Therefore, chances of making a call from the aircraft is really slim. I wonder if the oilot is able to switch off the satellite phone from abroad.

 

It probably took more than 1 person involved in this if foul play and suicide was involved. First the cockpit must have one less pilot. It is also somewhat strange that none of the passenger/ crew took action to overpower the culprits. I guess we will only know once they have found the FDR and CVR.

 

I sympathise with those having to break this kind of news, a case of damn if you do and damn if you don't.

 

I am unsure, however, if text messaging is a good method of breaking the news...

[flee 5]

Me thinkd u kinda hard on hishamuddin. Malaysia obviously lead the investigation. On what basis do you say no onr is respondible nor leading? What i see is hishamuddin did what he could, contacting and getting whatever help there is thats why the multinational search. What he released to the press he had released leads that are worth to pursue and credible data. Pls do not simply lisyen to what the press are bashing about. The press wanted info, but there was none so what could the minister do? Do you want your minister to give rumours like daily mail?

I am very sorry if you see me as simply bashing. Why should I waste my time posting here if all I wanted to do is bash? There are better channels for doing that. You will note that I have refrained from posting very early in the thread as there was nothing to go on. I was very careful with my comments, bearing in mind that the search was still ongoing and there are many sensitivities.

 

I will just give you one example of the bad handling - Hisham said that the transcript of the ATC-Cockpit transmissions was inaccurate. But he did not elaborate, i.e. produce the evidence. This kind of "hanging in the air" comment causes more uncertainty than answer any question people may have. That is the main criticism of the way this whole thing is being handled. It strikes me as being very unprofessional.

I am unsure, however, if text messaging is a good method of breaking the news...

Yes, I saw an interview on CCTV and there was an expert there who mentioned that it was the fastest way to get the info to the families BEFORE the Malaysian PM made the announcement. His contention was that MAS probably wanted the families to get the official info from them rather than get it from TV.

After 18 days, some media folks just don't learn. And two of them asked what chance of survival for the passengers / crew if the aircraft did come down in that area ... duh? The waves are so high and the winds are so strong (not to mention the temperatures) ... if the HMS Success has to be taken out of the area due to weather, what do they think is the human survival chance?

Yes, it is such a funny thing for me to observe. Both the officials and the media seem to be incompetent. Early on (the first 5 or 6 days), a lot of the questions were totally irrelevant. A waste of time!

Edited March 25, 2014 by flee

[KC Sim 2]

Agree with flee ... saying the published transcript was inaccurate but yet not producing the official version is hard to gain credibility.

 

The SMS last night was as I understand a final ditch effort to ensure that those not contactable face to face or on the phone could still get the information before the PM goes on the television at 10pm. I agree that the SMS is impersonal and under normal circumstances, inappropriate. But knowing the circumstances under which it was used, I actually applaud them for leaving it to the final option. Not doing so would be even worse if family members felt they learnt of the latest development from the television screen.

 

KC Sim

[N Azman 0]

My humble 2c regarding the release of info.

 

Investigative bodies rarely reveal key evidence before conclusion of the investigation. Why is this? to avoid a certain bias developing, to avoid mis-interpretation of the evidence, and of course, further family distress. By revealing key info early - you're allowing a circus-like 'trial-by-public' such as what we're seeing with a certain sportsman in South Africa. Have you ever seen NTSB/AAIB/etc releasing full CVR transcript PRIOR to the full report? if you have, please let me know. To my limited knowledge, i have not seen any. At the very least, its with a prelim report, which comes at least after 75% of the investigation is done.

 

Just because daily telegraph/daily mail/guardian broke the transcript news (which by the way looks very dodgy to anyone who has an inkling of cockpit communication)...does not mean DCA should just pants down and release everything just to debunk them. For all you know, it could be a journalistic trick to get the authorities to release the transcript. I wouldnt put the media past this.

[Cire 0]

I wondered if the Indonesians will have something more to add to the latest revelations by Immarset and AAIB? Surely if they could track an unauthorised US cargo plane flying overhead, it would have tracked MH370's blips on its radars as well.

[flee 5]

My humble 2c regarding the release of info.

 

Investigative bodies rarely reveal key evidence before conclusion of the investigation. Why is this? to avoid a certain bias developing, to avoid mis-interpretation of the evidence, and of course, further family distress. By revealing key info early - you're allowing a circus-like 'trial-by-public' such as what we're seeing with a certain sportsman in South Africa. Have you ever seen NTSB/AAIB/etc releasing full CVR transcript PRIOR to the full report? if you have, please let me know. To my limited knowledge, i have not seen any. At the very least, its with a prelim report, which comes at least after 75% of the investigation is done.

 

Just because daily telegraph/daily mail/guardian broke the transcript news (which by the way looks very dodgy to anyone who has an inkling of cockpit communication)...does not mean DCA should just pants down and release everything just to debunk them. For all you know, it could be a journalistic trick to get the authorities to release the transcript. I wouldnt put the media past this.

Unfortunately we don't have a NTSB. All we have are cowboys, and incompetent ones at that!

This whole affair is great case study material for a lot of students of various fields. Lets hope that lessons are learnt and these errors are not repeated at future disasters.

[V Wong 0]

The SMS may sound blunt and impersonal to others/outsiders, but I'm sure the family members who opted to received updates via SMS had been fully counselled on this, ie possibility of receiving such news via SMS, over the past two weeks. However, no matter how much one is mentally prepared, when the blow comes, the hit is never soft

[N Azman 0]

Unfortunately we don't have a NTSB. All we have are cowboys, and incompetent ones at that!

 

Functionally? we do. Its within the DCA Flight Ops Division.

 

Should we have a standalone Govt Agency like NTSB? Well that's open for debate. Personally i think if the function is already served within DCA, we don't need one as our air transport space isn't big enough - and we don't have that many GA activity. But then again its up for opinion. For ground transport there's already SPAD and MIROS.

[flee 5]

Should we have a standalone Govt Agency like NTSB? Well that's open for debate. Personally i think if the function is already served within DCA, we don't need one as our air transport space isn't big enough - and we don't have that many GA activity. But then again its up for opinion. For ground transport there's already SPAD and MIROS.

If memory serves me right, the Genting Bus Crash report recommends the setting up of a NTSB. Then, qualified people can be appointed to investigate all public transport disasters instead of having to appoint special committees like the one investigating that crash.

[MIR 2]

Not the full list, but some of the aircraft involved in the search effort:

 

Western Australia :

1. RNZAF P-3K2 Orion NZ4203 - arr from Butterworth on 18/03, rumoured to have returned back to Butterworth on 20/03

2. RNZAF P-3K2 Orion NZ4204 - arr from Whenuapai on 19/03

3. PLAAF IL-76 20541 - arr from Subang on 22/03

4. PLAAF IL-76 20545 - arr from Subang on 22/03
5. USN P-8A 168429 - arr from Subang 18/03

 

6. JMSDF P-3C 5056- arr from Subang 23/03

7. JMSDF P-3C 5060 - arr from Subang 23/03

8. Global Express VH-TGG

9. Global Express VH-ICV

10. Gulfstream G-V-SP VH-LAL

 

11. A319 VH-VHD

12. ROKAF C-103H 05-183 - arriving today from Subang.

13. ROKN NP-3C 950905 - arriving today from Subang.

14. Gulftream 650 ZK-KFB - arriving today from Wellington, rumoured to join the search.

15. USN C-37A 166375 - arr from Guam on 25/03, possibly related with the search.

 

* RAAF aircraft information unavailable

 

Subang :

 

1. JASDF C-130H 05-1085
2. JASDF C-130H 75-1078
3. Japan Coast Guard U-4 JA500A
4. USN P-3C Orion 161764

5. PLAAF Y-8 20146

6. Indian Navy P-8I IN321
7. Indian Air Force C-130J KC-38??

 

* RMAF aircraft information unavailable

Edited March 25, 2014 by MIR

[leon t 0]

hope Najib didnt jump the gun too fast and announce that the plane had ended there - as its only a day or two from recovering the debris and confirming that the debris are from MH 370. If its not from the plane, then it will be even more difficult for the families - do feel that PM should have just waited a few hours more for evidencial confirmation.

On the aftermath, RMAS radar and even that of DCA have alot to answer for why or ifthey actually have spotted the plane on their screen and what did they obviously didnt do - rather than blaming indonesia radar etc or others for no tdetecting.

[Aaron Goh 1]

At least our cowboys didnt put KL wrongly on the mal like CNN or done rubbish theories like daily mail. What they did was pretty simple release only verified details. The rest are made up of journalist imagination.

[S M Tang 0]

Not the full list, but some of the aircraft involved in the search effort:

Subang :

 

1. JASDF C-130H 05-1085

2. JASDF C-130H 75-1078

3. Japan Coast Guard U-4 JA500A

4. USN P-3C Orion 161764

5. PLAAF Y-8 20146

6. Indian Navy P-8I IN321

7. Indian Air Force C-130J KC-38??

 

* RMAF aircraft information unavailable

 

7. Indian Air Force C-130J KC-3804

[Waiping 12]

I don't read too much into accidents such as the Genting Bus tragedy because it's all too familiar. Not the first and probably not going to be the last. The law is there and in some cases a staggering amount of summonses had been issued. The issue is more on enforcing the current law.

 

Likewise there is no guarantee setting a ala-NTSB would work if the attitude remains the same. To cite another example we had Immigration, PDRM, TLDM, MMEA and ESSCOM but the Suluk still came.