Airbus May Be Making the World’s Fattest, Most Expensive Turkey

[Naim 6]

TIME: Airbus May Be Making the World’s Fattest, Most Expensive Turkey

By Bill Saporito @bilsap

Oct. 23, 2013

When passengers on Air France’s Flight 006 land at New York City’s Kennedy Airport from Paris on Thanksgiving Day they may also have the distinction of arriving on one of the biggest turkeys in aviation history, the Airbus super jumbo A380. Airbus has no new orders for the jet this year, and Lufthansa recently canceled three A380s—it had ordered 17—which typically have 500 to 525 seats. Airports are required to build special gates just to board and unload that many passengers. Air France/KLM, which launched its A380 service with much fanfare, doesn’t want any more as it continues to restructure. Orders at Virgin Atlantic (6) and Hong Kong Airlines (10) seem vulnerable while an option taken by finance firm Doric Asset Finance for 20 of the big birds hasn’t been converted to a firm order.

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Read more: http://business.time.com/2013/10/23/airbus-may-be-making-the-worlds-fattest-most-expensive-turkey/#ixzz2iYN1f8FW

[mokhzani 0]

Similar story.... http://finance.yahoo.com/news/airbus-a380-faces-strategy-crunch-drop-orders-161008234--sector.html

[Naim 6]

When I visited the A380 plant in Toulouse last month, just a handful of planes around. Looked idle too.

[flee 5]

I think they slowed down the production rate for two reasons:

 

1. No new orders this year
2. Create space to enable existing aircraft to have their wings fixed

[Mohd Suhaimi Fariz 2]

I'd think the 747-8 is an even bigger turkey than the A380.

 

In terms of looks however the 748 wins hands down against the dugong!

[flee 5]

Yeah, dugong fuselage is short and stubby. The A359 (if it is ever built), will look more balanced.

[BC Tam 2]

I'd think the 747-8 is an even bigger turkey than the A380.

In terms of units sold, that would be true indeed

But the 747-8 being a derivative of a proven workhorse as opposed to brand new, clean slate design of the dugong, development costs would have been minimal by comparison

But both turkies nevertheless

[flee 5]

In terms of units sold, that would be true indeed

But the 747-8 being a derivative of a proven workhorse as opposed to brand new, clean slate design of the dugong, development costs would have been minimal by comparison

But both turkies nevertheless

That may be the case in terms of certification.

 

However, some of the considerable delays were caused by the need for Boeing to re-design the aircraft. There are still problems with the aircraft handling even now - I remember that the old build aircraft are not able to use the tail fuel tanks as it will adversely affect the B748's handling qualities.

 

Of course, the B748 cost a lot less to develop compared to the A380 - however, it still cost a lot more than what a derivative should cost. I am sure Boeing spent less to make the B743 to a B744.

[Waiping 12]

So most probably LH would be the only B748 pax operator in the world. So far no new airlines using the pax version of B748, right?

[flee 5]

Yeah, dugong fuselage is short and stubby. The A359 (if it is ever built), will look more balanced.

Sorry, I meant the A389...

[Isaac 0]

So most probably LH would be the only B748 pax operator in the world. So far no new airlines using the pax version of B748, right?

No. It won't. There is still KE. KE had only 5x B747-8i on firm order since launch but they ordered another 5 more four months ago, bringing the total firm order to 10. The first KE 748 will enter service in 2015. Currently KE is already operating the 748F.

Edited October 24, 2013 by Isaac

[flee 5]

So most probably LH would be the only B748 pax operator in the world. So far no new airlines using the pax version of B748, right?

Yes, it would appear to be the case - I think that with aviation fuel still above US$100, economics is really working against the big planes. Most airlines prefer more frequencies and there are only a few slot constrained airports in the world. Unless your home base is one of those airports, you may prefer the more efficient twin jets.

 

Having said that, the ten airlines that are currently operating the A380 are getting very high load factors - so the better per seat economics of the A380 ensures that the airlines are making money on the A380 routes.

[Naim 6]

Boeing also not doing well.

 

BOEING'S 747 IS AN ICON, BUT FUTURE IS IN DOUBT

By JOSHUA FREED and SCOTT MAYEROWITZ

Oct. 24, 2013 3:26 AM EDT

 

For decades, the Boeing 747 was the Queen of the Skies. But the glamorous double-decker jumbo jet that revolutionized air travel and shrunk the globe could be nearing the end of the line.

 

Boeing has cut its production target twice in six months. Just 18 will be produced in each of the next two years. Counting cancellations, it hasn't sold a single 747 this year. Some brand-new 747s go into storage as soon as they leave the plant.

...

 

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/boeings-747-icon-future-doubt

[BC Tam 2]

Remember like a decade or so ago when manufacturers A and B were trading blows over how each perceived future air transport travel would evolve into ? A going for the mega-hub to mega-hub formula whilst B believed point-to-point travel will prevail

Would be interesting to have a discussion now, now that we're some way down the 'future' road already, as to who had the better argument back then, with benefit of hindsight of course

I suppose purely for academic interest mind you, for both have muddled through that period and now both offer range of products to customers that transcend the opposing ideals of yesteryears

[Isaac 0]

No. It won't. There is still KE. KE had only 5x B747-8i on firm order since launch but they ordered another 5 more four months ago, bringing the total firm order to 10. The first KE 748 will enter service in 2015. Currently KE is already operating the 748F.

 

Korean Air said in a regulatory filing that it is to place an order for an additional 5x B747-8i, 6x B777-300ER and 1x B787-9 yesterday. So eventually KE will operate 10x B747-8i, 18x B777-300ER and 11x B787-9.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/24/us-koreanair-boeing-idUSBRE99N06A20131024

Edited October 24, 2013 by Isaac

[Kee Hooi Yen 0]

Interesting to see both B748i opeartors LH & KE also operate A380.

[flee 5]

I think Airbus might have to seriously consider upgrading the A380 engines to use technologies similar to the Trent XWB in order to make the plane more economic on fuel, and perhaps consider a mild stretch (not as much as the A389 stretch) and call it a A380-850.

 

A mild stretch may be able to accommodate more cargo, thus increasing the payload. It will also be able to offer more legroom and enable airlines to add premium economy seats (since economy class seats these days are almost like LCC seats) to their cabins.

 

But Trent XWBs weigh more - so there will have to be a significant increase in the MTOW.

 

Lets see what Airbus will do - they will need to make some sort of decision if they don't get more orders in the near future.

[Robert 0]

Will the turkey get more stuffing? looking like 11 across in Y in coming:

 

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304384104579141941949066648