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MAS B772 Fleet Decommissioned on 27 January 2016

Which one type of a/c is suitable for MH?  

212 members have voted

  1. 1. A350 or B787

    • A350
      125
    • B787
      87


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MH should not even get more A380s, much less that they should even consider letting go off the existing 6 A380s.

If MH needs a more "immediate" aircraft replacement which it does - the only clear choice would be for the B77-300ER or 77W as delivery can be in around 2 years or slightly less. The A350s would take a longer time to be delivered and MH exisiting 772s are getting on in age and worse have not been refurbished. MH should also order a few more A330s.

 

Not even being repainted to the new colour scheme... let alone refurbishment!

 

Aren't they the ones lining up on the taxiway of KPAE with sealed windows? Those birds are the ones with early wing design, which needed to be reworked but will eventually be delivered to their customers?

Edited by S V Choong

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A very much debated topic among local aviation community.

 

1. The early built B787 are definite no-no for MH in my opinion because all of them have different shortcomings and require individual rework (which will take extra time as Boeing is focusing in ramping up their 787 production). Upon completion of rework, each one of them has different set of operation manual and would have different maintenance log too. It will be a nightmare for MRO.

 

Those early frames were sold to Lion Air and Transaero at dirt cheap prices.However, they back out of the deal and selected for production frames.

 

2. MH is struggling to fill up their A380 all year round with good yield. Adding another four A380s will sink even Mas NewCo. in no time.

 

3. A350 would be the better option. It can replace both B772ER and fill the gap that B77W that MH didn't manage to acquire. MH can most probably lease A350 through lessor which already have early delivery slot. VN is slated to take delivery of its first A530 leased through AerCap this year. First airline in SEA to fly A350.

 

The EK cancellation of 70 A350 order also opens up a lot of slot for late comer airline to place booking.

 

On a side note, Christopher Mueller is an Airbus guy. Airbus could cut him some good deal for A350...but with Malaysia government interference....God knows what will happen.

 

4. Another option is to take second hand B77W that are being offloaded. But I don't see any airline doing so, except for B77A/772ER.

Edited by JuliusWong

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Not even being repainted to the new colour scheme... let alone refurbishment!

 

Aren't they the ones lining up on the taxiway of KPAE with sealed windows? Those birds are the ones with early wing design, which needed to be reworked but will eventually be delivered to their customers?

you could be right,Choong. not too sure if they are awaitng delivery after rewwork to customers.But early built 787s best for short lease if available as suggested above.

 

Leon, if assuming they do let go of the 6 A380's as per your suggestion.which a/c will be utilized for LHR/CDG route with available equipment?777 200?

 

Also in my opinion after a 2 year wait for 773,and when they do get one, is will be an obsolete equipment. Which knowing MH will be used for the next 20 years.

Edited by jadivindra

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The A350-900 will be the most obvious and direct replacement. Delta has taken some of the Emirates slots but there should still be some left. MH probably needs about 10 of these.

 

Later on, after newco has stabilised, MH could consider the A350-1000 too. This can be used to complement the A380 for routes that are popular but still not able to completely fill the A380.

 

For a cash strapped airline, there is not much point buying aircraft where Boeing has a market monopoly - these planes will be too expensive. B737s are OK because there is stiff competition from other manufacturers. So B737 deals can be stuck more easily.


MH should not even get more A380s, much less that they should even consider letting go off the existing 6 A380s.

MH does not own the A380s. So it is not for them to let go.

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I really hope they order the A350 this year. Everything in their fleet is new except for the B772 which, in their current state, is totally unacceptable for long haul operations.

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A strategic mistake mh made that caused low yield is lack of daily or multiple daily flight to many destinations. Given mh reputation, it won't be easy to fill large aircraft like 77w on intercontinental routes.

 

Another strategic mistake mh made is lack of fleet mix to optimize yield.

 

Until mh adopted a business model, believe it is too early to decide what type of aircraft to buy.

Edited by KK Lee

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the 777 feels like the cancer of Malaysia Airlines. From the 2 tragic crashes, to outdated interior. The 777 seems to be the dark shadow of the fleet. The time we see them go might signifies a new beginning.

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the 777 feels like the cancer of Malaysia Airlines. From the 2 tragic crashes, to outdated interior. The 777 seems to be the dark shadow of the fleet. The time we see them go might signifies a new beginning.

Outdated interior they may be, but still one of the more comfortable Economy seats in the fleet, with 34in seat pitch and plush fabric upholstery that absorbs body heat and keep you cool as you sleep.

 

The experience is so much different to the A330/A380 I can tell you that.

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A330 NEO. Got the range and not as costly for training.

MH has a history of holding on to aircraft for ages - will the A339neo be able to serve for 20 years or more and still be cost competitive?

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Outdated interior they may be, but still one of the more comfortable Economy seats in the fleet, with 34in seat pitch and plush fabric upholstery that absorbs body heat and keep you cool as you sleep.

 

The experience is so much different to the A330/A380 I can tell you that.

 

Well said :)

 

There is no point in being in a brand spanking new 9 abreast 787 with seat pitch ala knees in mouth.

 

MH's 772's - especially if you know how to choose your seats in Y - is a VERY nice ride. Huge pitch, nice padding on seats. Nice recline. Comfy and Pleasant.

 

In J, in balance and i stress BALANCE - meaning 75 inch pitch, 2-3-2 VS current prices being charged) - is actually an unbeatable proposition. Where else mau cari this kind of offering?

 

There are those say "wah - tengok! 1-2-1" - My advice to you is : Dipersilakan ke sana. I can't afford SQ prices.

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Outdated interior they may be, but still one of the more comfortable Economy seats in the fleet, with 34in seat pitch and plush fabric upholstery that absorbs body heat and keep you cool as you sleep.

 

The experience is so much different to the A330/A380 I can tell you that.

this might sound silly, but is it possible to keep the seats but change the IFE?

I assume not since its built in and fitting the A330/A380 IFE will require extensive changes to the seats or not even possible

 

So the only option is to strip the interior?

 

Modular design so IFE can be upgraded in the future?

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this might sound silly, but is it possible to keep the seats but change the IFE?

I assume not since its built in and fitting the A330/A380 IFE will require extensive changes to the seats or not even possible

 

So the only option is to strip the interior?

 

Modular design so IFE can be upgraded in the future?

Unforunately no I believe, unless they keep the screen & change the IFE box?

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Unforunately no I believe, unless they keep the screen & change the IFE box?

 

Merely changing the IFE box would not make any good for those ageing IFE systems - newer IFE screens have higher resolution and have touch capabilities, something those small screens on Y-class on those 777s are not capable of.

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From Flight International Magazine, Issue 1 - 7 April 1998

 

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Ahh...what a good older days... now those international routes mostly flown by Emirates! So no worry... :acute:

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Bank Negara was the biggest shareholder? What? Brunei Investment? Heh? Never knew this. Anyone can shed some light?

 

Also what happened to the 777-300 order?

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Bank Negara was the biggest shareholder? What? Brunei Investment? Heh? Never knew this. Anyone can shed some light?

 

Also what happened to the 777-300 order?

 

The 777-300 (non-ER) was ordered around the same time with TG, SQ, EK, CX, JL, NH for high capacity but regional routes. Eventually the order of (4x?) was not taken up and converted to B777-200ERs (9M-MRP and MRQ were the result of the conversion) Not sure of MRN and MRO were part of these too. The 777-300 were slated o receive the 9M-MSA to MSD for registration.

 

I believe the stats above were during the mid-90s. Since the MD-11s / 11Fs (leased from World Airways) were part of the fleet. The MD-11s were leased in to cover the delay in the delivery of the A330-300s (9M-MK* series) and to replace some of the aging DC-10-30s that were leaving the fleet. The 777-200ERs eventually replaced the MD-11s too.

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Thanks Choong for the insight.

 

Still hoping to get clarification on Bank Negara and Brunei Investment being major shareholders though.

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Bank Negara held the MH shares...until it made some huge forex losses and had to offload the shares to help cover that hole...and sold it to Tajudin Ramli who had taken a huge loan to buy the shares and allegedly had to be "creative" just to service those loans, and it goes on and on. That forex losses were the start of MH going downhill.

 

Brunei Investment Agency (together with other M'sian state investment agencies) got significant stakes in MH as part of MH's IPO exercise.

 

The 4 773 (non-ER) were part of the original 11 772IGWs, 4 773 and 10 744 combined order at that time. The 4 773 was later changed to become 6 772IGWs....and hence why MH ended up with 17 772ERs.

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I also remember MAS signed MoU with Boeing to acquire Boeing 777-200x (now known as -200LR) back in the late 1990s so the airline can open non-stop routes to North America such as Chicago from KL.

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Somewhere in 1995/96, Boeing officially changed the IGW name into ER for the 777.


I did a bit of digging on MH placing the order for B777-200X: http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19970306&slug=2527385

 

......."Officials are firming up plans for links to New York, Los Angeles and Chicago, taking advantage of an upcoming "open skies" flight policy between Malaysia and the U.S.

Malaysia had been one of the customers that publicly said it wanted to buy Boeing's proposed 747-500/600X jumbo jet before that program was shelved. The airline's switch to the 777 follows predictions by Boeing that its newest jetliner can fulfill long-range needs of Asian carriers".
It was Malaysia Airlines' glory days back then, but they failed to forsee the Asian Financial Crisis the following year...Many airlines were caught off guard.

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