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MAS B772 Fleet Decommissioned on 27 January 2016

Which one type of a/c is suitable for MH?  

212 members have voted

  1. 1. A350 or B787

    • A350
      125
    • B787
      87


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We also need to remember that more weight also means less payload. So cargo capacity will be reduced. As such, cabin should be premium heavy. And that is where MH is having problems - yields on premium loads. Will the B787-8 be able to help?

 

And if the B787-8 is put on short haul and regional routes, there will be a surplus of A333s. So MH's fleet will remain sub optimised. :(

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We also need to remember that more weight also means less payload. So cargo capacity will be reduced. As such, cabin should be premium heavy. And that is where MH is having problems - yields on premium loads. Will the B787-8 be able to help?

 

And if the B787-8 is put on short haul and regional routes, there will be a surplus of A333s. So MH's fleet will remain sub optimised. :(

MAS 333 don't really operate short-haul flights these days. So the 333 operation should remain unaffected.

 

These overweight B787-8 can be used to replaced some of the flights to China (Hong Kong, Guangzhou), Taipei, South Asia (Male, New Delhi, Mumbai, Chennai) etc. currently operated by B737-800. Don't MAS have 11 (or 15 ?) B737-800 with no sky interior/AVOD ? It's about time MAS phase these planes out.

Edited by Isaac

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We have heard many people here saying that the A380 is too big.

 

Isn't this the same argument - that the B787-8 is too big for those routes? Besides, people prefer frequency and convenient flight schedules. With a B787-8 on the route, the number of flights to each destination may have to be curtailed. Again, this is sub optimal...


We have already heard MH's CEO say that the BoD is not currently deliberating on new aircraft purchases. So all this talk about the B787 is merely speculation. The media needs something to talk about so that they can sell their ads! ;)

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We have heard many people here saying that the A380 is too big.

 

Isn't this the same argument - that the B787-8 is too big for those routes? Besides, people prefer frequency and convenient flight schedules. With a B787-8 on the route, the number of flights to each destination may have to be curtailed. Again, this is sub optimal...

We have already heard MH's CEO say that the BoD is not currently deliberating on new aircraft purchases. So all this talk about the B787 is merely speculation. The media needs something to talk about so that they can sell their ads! ;)

 

Another missed opportunity for MH?

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We have heard many people here saying that the A380 is too big.

It kind of is, unfortunately. The argument however, may not apply to the B787-8 as B787-8 is going to sit only 100+- more passengers compared to the 738 but with better cargo capability, even with this supposedly sub-standard early built 788. Besides, i think MAS sometimes have to leave cargo behind at some Indian airports correct ?

 

 

Isn't this the same argument - that the B787-8 is too big for those routes?

Not too sure about this as two flights can be combined into one which wouldn't be a big issue. Besides, MAS is flying their B737-800 (and sometimes you'll end up flying the non-AVOD fitted 738 if you are not lucky) to cities such as TPE and HKG. Very often you'll notice the air fare of MAS (non-promo) to these cities are about the same as CX, BR and CI. Why would i want to book MAS especially with the risk of a non-AVOD with LCC legroom being assigned to operate the flight i am going to be on ?

 

 

 

Besides, people prefer frequency and convenient flight schedules. With a B787-8 on the route, the number of flights to each destination may have to be curtailed. Again, this is sub optimal...

That is what some people would like to think. Then again, this is the same airline that was so aggressive in expanding their flight choices last year and at the same still flushed more than RM1 billion down the toilet bowl in year 2013 alone. i wonder how some of the flights are doing (MH796, MH869, MH867, MH78, MH433, and soon MH848, MH768, mh769).

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MH has no justification to lease or buy more new aircraft type apart from the on-going B738 delivery. Period.

 

Having new plane doesn't translate to profit. Let's not go down the pathway of JW and KF. What MH needs now is total management overhaul, revamp hard and soft products both inside and outside. The new fleet purchase should be least of their concern now.


And by the way, according to Boeing internal source, all these 11 overweight B787 has different maintenance procedures for each one of them. Each one has its own unique weight and wiring issue. Which sound minded airlines would want to create mess for themselves??

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The fact that Boeing specifically sweet-talked with MH to take these 'trouble teens' is very disturbing (hello, they even named them 'trouble teens'!).

 

If I were Boeing, I would choose the most stupid airline in the industry to pay for these craps/scraps because it is the easiest way to get them sold. Boeing can give these aircraft as a 'buy 10 free 1' combo to many of its existing 787 customers, especially those who have already maintain a large 787 fleet but no, Boeing chooses MH. Personally I regard it as an insult to the intelligence.

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The fact that Boeing specifically sweet-talked with MH to take these 'trouble teens' is very disturbing.

 

If I were Boeing, I would choose the most stupid airline in the industry to pay for these craps/scraps because it is the easiest way to get them sold. Boeing can give these aircraft as a 'buy 10 free 1' combo to many of its existing 787 customers, especially those who have already maintain a large 787 fleet but no, Boeing chooses MH. Personally I regard it as an insult to the intelligence.

Agree.

 

And if MH really needs a B787, they should be looking at the B787-9 and B787-10. These two will be better replacements for the B772 and A333.

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Sometimes in order to go far, we need to put our pride down. Instead of looking this at a negative way, why not see it as an opportunity to negotiate a better deal with Boeing provided this rumor is true ? A lease perhaps with full Boeing engineers assistance during the early phase of the 787 operation ? Or may be to have Boeing to bear some of the bills for 787 pilot training ? SIA tells us a lot of things are possible, that includes to have Boeing to buy all your 343 in exchange of new 777, or to have Airbus to take the 345 back in exchange of more 350XWB order :)

 

Besides, when is there ever going to be a good time for MAS to introduce a new aircraft type ? With the government still deeply involved, things over at MAS are unlikely to change.

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Sometimes in order to go far, we need to put our pride down. Instead of looking this at a negative way, why not see it as an opportunity to negotiate a better deal with Boeing provided this rumor is true ? A lease perhaps with full Boeing engineers assistance during the early phase of the 787 operation ? Or may be to have Boeing to bear some of the bills for 787 pilot training ? SIA tells us a lot of things are possible, that includes to have Boeing to buy all your 343 in exchange of new 777, or to have Airbus to take the 345 back in exchange of more 350XWB order :)

 

Besides, when is there ever going to be a good time for MAS to introduce a new aircraft type ? With the government still deeply involved, things over at MAS are unlikely to change.

SIA is a well run company. MAS? A bunch of crooks sucking it dry with its CEO and Management powerless to act. Boeing is probably just doing the same, exploiting MAS for what they are! ;)

 

Many foreign businessmen I know lament that the Malaysian govt. does not really have any policies. One moment it is like this, next moment it is like that. See how our automotive industry players are screwed? There is no consistency in the automotive policies. That is why Thailand (a late starter in automotive manufacturing) has overtaken us.

 

The same is happening in the aviation industry. MAS and SIA both started as new airlines in 1972. But MAS is a pale shadow of what SIA is. MAS had a 20 year headstart over Airasia. Look where Airasia is today compared to MAS?

 

Until MAS can prove that they deserve respect, we have to be humble and accept that MAS is just another badly run GLC that is being pillaged by its political masters and their cronies and not a real business run on commercial grounds. Sad but true. :(

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A recent FB status by an A.Net diva:

 

I hope MAS buys the overweight 787s Boeing is trying to palm off to stupid airlines. If my tax ringgit are going to be wasted anyway, then at least I get a new plane to play with almost immediately.

 

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Buy 10 and the foc 1 convert to future Perdana One.

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With the continuing retained losses and latest poor financial situation, MH can forget with its fleet renewal plan. This is impossible as any financial institutions are unlikely to finance such purchase. As such any decision will only involve government intervention at the expense of tax payers' money.

Edited by Kenneth T

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buying planes for MAS is easy bec it doesnt need any outside financing - what it does for the last few decades is that the Mininstry of Finance have set up a company called PNB to buy the planes that MAS needs - and then this PNB will lease the planes to MAS at a lease rate which no one knows but should be below international lease rates as MH is already too poor as its been making billions losses. Hence its actually still the rakyat's or public money that is used to finance MH.

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buying planes for MAS is easy bec it doesnt need any outside financing - what it does for the last few decades is that the Mininstry of Finance have set up a company called PNB to buy the planes that MAS needs - and then this PNB will lease the planes to MAS at a lease rate which no one knows but should be below international lease rates as MH is already too poor as its been making billions losses. Hence its actually still the rakyat's or public money that is used to finance MH.

I don't think new planes will be owned by PMB (not PNB) anymore. E.g. the A380s are financed by Terus Pesawat Sdn Bhd. So PMB will wind up once all its planes are paid up and sold. Quote from MAS financials:

 

 

The Company has the right to receive from PMB 80% of the profit arising from the eventual realisation of aircraft

unbundled to PMB under the widespread asset unbundling agreement ("WAU Agreement"). The profit will be
computed based on the excess of the value realised over the decayed net book value of the aircraft and
maintenance costs required in accordance with the contractual redelivery terms. The decayed net book value
for each aircraft at future dates is stipulated in the WAU Agreement.

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I don't think new planes will be owned by PMB (not PNB) anymore. E.g. the A380s are financed by Terus Pesawat Sdn Bhd. So PMB will wind up once all its planes are paid up and sold. Quote from MAS financials:

 

 

well my guess that this Terus Pesawat is a govt-linked or owned company too - to finance the A380s for MAS.

 

Yup, its a Special Purpose Vehicle... So the role of PMB will diminish with time...

 

 

 

Btw..it is P-M-B.

 

Now whether it is PMB, Terus Pesawat, or Bunga Melur or Nasi Goreng Sdn Bhd - those are just different SPVs of the ultimate financier - M'sian tax payers via their wholly owned "subsidiary" Khazanah, held through "holdco" MOF.

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During today's AGM, AJ said that MH will add more seats to the 772 to create a more dense cobfiguration. As the cost will be recouped within 3 to 6 mths, MH will proceed despite the 772 to leave the fleet some 3 yrs later

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I doubt new ptv systems will be introduced...but one can only hope. The current system is so 90s with tiny screens and poor resolution.

 

But what could happen will be reduced seat pitches in Y and C and more rows added.

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10 seats abreast in Y ?

That's a lot of new seats they will have to order. Believe they will just reduce the current seat pitch (C from 75" to the original planned 60" and Y from 34" to 32").

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That's a lot of new seats they will have to order. Believe they will just reduce the current seat pitch (C from 75" to the original planned 60" and Y from 34" to 32").

They should get the seats like JAL. 32" will be killing the selling point of the current 772 flights (for me)...

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