Jump to content
MalaysianWings - Malaysia's Premier Aviation Portal
D Singh

MAS offers sub par uncompetitive products

Recommended Posts

So I think MH is quite uncompetitive not only because it has excessively cut its route network to the bone so it no longer functions properly and too its full potential as a network carrier but also due to the product it provides.

 

Just look at the products that even foreign carriers fly regionally and even into KUL from their hubs TG flies 777 with proper business class angled seats, SQ flies A330 with the same. regionally MH product is totally sub par i know the distances can sometime be short on the regional connectors but if I can have a better product even on a short flight why would i choose an MH 737 over and SQ A330.

 

This story even extends to long haul, the product MH offers on the 772 is way past its prime and as far as I can tell there dont seem to be any plans to do anything about it. 2-3-2 in business class?? The concept of having a middle seat in J class these days is anathema and MAS needs to catch up big time. MAS is in too highly competitive a region to be offering sub par products, even TG is now serving a majority of its long haul routes with full flat products.

 

Lastly there product strategy is also failing in Australia, MAS is now flying A330 to both SYD and MEL so they effectively do not offer a First Class product on the Kangaroo route at all. Im no sure what the loads were but to completely pull out like this is ridiculous i think as all the money spent to build the brand and promote first class offerings in the past is now squandered. However what is more grave and critical in my option is the failing of the J class product that this presents. Because they dont offer a full flat business product all the way though to Aus, who is going to want to come off a 12 hr flight from London to board another 9 hour flight in an angled lie flat when the ME carriers, CX, SQ, and even BA wont ask you to do so.

 

Somebody at MAS needs to wake up and see that their offerings are just poor and they need to start to compete.

 

Anywho this is my opinion what do you all think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So you just copy paste this comment and put it into 3 different threads+1 new threads with exactly same comment?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So you just copy paste this comment and put it into 3 different threads+1 new threads with exactly same comment?

Actually it was posted in one other thread, and I thought it a bit off topic so decided to start a new one. I instructed moderators to delete the old post in the other thread which they have done.

 

Would you care to share your opinion on the actual topic of the thread?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO they are living in their own bubble and have the 'juara kampung' mentality.

 

It's undeniable their offering was substandard, but to their defense, it is not that poor either... You wanna have truly poor hardware offering try KU.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO they are living in their own bubble and have the 'juara kampung' mentality.

 

It's undeniable their offering was substandard, but to their defense, it is not that poor either... You wanna have truly poor hardware offering try KU.

 

Hahah! I can believe that :-)

 

I think i was referring mainly when compared to the neighborhood they operate in where are there some real big guns to contend with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MH suits me juuuuust fine. Sure, they're sub-par but they fill a convenience and timing niche for me. I do a a fair bit of Europe and Australia runs - and sure, i like SQ227 and SQ322 - but trips like those are usually linked with some jam packed days with meetings till late and I don't really have many occasions where i can run off from the office at 5pm to connect in SIN.

 

They're not always my first choice, but when i need that convenience, they step up to the plate and deliver satisfactorily. Less than competitive? Sure. Doesn't cause me any heartache though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MH suits me juuuuust fine. Sure, they're sub-par but they fill a convenience and timing niche for me. I do a a fair bit of Europe and Australia runs - and sure, i like SQ227 and SQ322 - but trips like those are usually linked with some jam packed days with meetings till late and I don't really have many occasions where i can run off from the office at 5pm to connect in SIN.

 

They're not always my first choice, but when i need that convenience, they step up to the plate and deliver satisfactorily. Less than competitive? Sure. Doesn't cause me any heartache though.

 

Hey Suzanne thanks for the opinion! And i can completely understand your point of view. However I think you are functioning a little as a hub captive there which of-course is quite natural it is hard to trump scheduling constraints.

 

So here is a question for you. If KLIA were better served in the future and MAS did not have a monopoly on the route you were traveling on (there were other direct options) would you be more inclined to choose someone else?

 

I think the larger point here is for those not trapped in KUL MH does not offer a compelling products which would make those with a choice choose them.

Edited by D Singh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Suzanne thanks for the opinion! And i can completely understand your point of view. However I think you are functioning a little as a hub captive there which of-course is quite natural it is hard to trump scheduling constraints.

 

So here is a question for you. If KLIA were better served in the future and MAS did not have a monopoly on the route you were traveling on (there were other direct options) would you be more inclined to choose someone else?

 

It'd depend. If as you say, there were other direct options - i'd be inclined then to look at prices and/or whether i need to requalify for anything.

 

From my perspective, even if the above scenario were true, the selection of carrier would still rely on factors other than just onboard product. It's a bit more complex than that. I don't select carriers on the basis of them having super seats, nor do i discount them on the basis of having an inferior product.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2-3-2 in business class?? The concept of having a middle seat in J class these days is anathema and MAS needs to catch up big time.

 

EK's 77W are 2-3-2 in J, doesn't harm them at all. In fact the only EK fleet that's 2-2-2 in J are the A380, A345 & the B77L

 

http://www.emirates.com/english/flying/our_fleet/our_fleet.aspx

 

 

Lastly there product strategy is also failing in Australia, MAS is now flying A330 to both SYD and MEL so they effectively do not offer a First Class product on the Kangaroo route at all. Im no sure what the loads were but to completely pull out like this is ridiculous i think as all the money spent to build the brand and promote first class offerings in the past is now squandered. However what is more grave and critical in my option is the failing of the J class product that this presents. Because they dont offer a full flat business product all the way though to Aus, who is going to want to come off a 12 hr flight from London to board another 9 hour flight in an angled lie flat when the ME carriers, CX, SQ, and even BA wont ask you to do so.

 

It has been well documented as to why MH had to resort to pulling out First Class offerings out of AU - the 747 needs to go, and it's replacement the A380 can't be used because by using it Malaysia's capacity cap as outlined in the bilateral agreement will be breached. MH have no other option than to deploy the A333 there instead.

 

As for the angled flat bed - EK's 77W flights are also lie-flats (according to their website) & again, didn't do them any harm.

Edited by Mohd Suhaimi Fariz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

EK's 77W are 2-3-2 in J, doesn't harm them at all. In fact the only EK fleet that's 2-2-2 in J are the A380, A345 & the B77L

 

http://www.emirates.com/english/flying/our_fleet/our_fleet.aspx

 

 

It has been well documented as to why MH had to resort to pulling out First Class offerings out of AU - the 747 needs to go, and it's replacement the A380 can't be used because by using it Malaysia's capacity cap as outlined in the bilateral agreement will be breached. MH have no other option than to deploy the A333 there instead.

 

As for the angled flat bed - EK's 77W flights are also lie-flats (according to their website) & again, didn't do them any harm.

 

Hey Mohamed

 

Thanks for the information, I did not know the Australian info at all so thanks for sharing it. Does explain a fair bit, but doesnt that then point a bit toward poor fleet planning? I do also find it hard to believe they couldn't manage one daily A380 frequency within the current agreement?

 

Also I take your point about EK its a valid one though I would point out that they serve many more destinations with a full flat config than MH does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some are quite valid comments.

 

The hardware in MH is nothing to shout about. In their new 737, the legroom is tight, no headrest too. In A333 and A380, business class a bit outdated already. First class is run of the mill type.

 

We all have ideas how their products should be, but in reality, money talks.

 

If you don't have money for those products, you just have to opt for less.

 

With MH making a bit of profit now, I hope things will improve further.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Hey Mohamed

 

Thanks for the information, I did not know the Australian info at all so thanks for sharing it. Does explain a fair bit, but doesnt that then point a bit toward poor fleet planning? I do also find it hard to believe they couldn't manage one daily A380 frequency within the current agreement?

 

Also I take your point about EK its a valid one though I would point out that they serve many more destinations with a full flat config than MH does.

You'll have to thank Tony Fernandes & AirAsia X for swooping in during the failed share swap last year & swiping the long held SYD slot from MH. That's why not even one A380 flight can be launched.

 

Had the share swap not been forced upon MH Sydney would have been an A380 destination by now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You'll have to thank Tony Fernandes & AirAsia X for swooping in during the failed share swap last year & swiping the long held SYD slot from MH. That's why not even one A380 flight can be launched.

 

Had the share swap not been forced upon MH Sydney would have been an A380 destination by now.

Well, I think MH's monopoly on the KUL-SYD route had to end sometime. I guess one of TF's T&Cs for "helping" MH is the unblocking of D7's entry into SYD.

 

I am not sure if MH will still have the monopoly even if there is no share swap. But I think that the unfortunate episode did some good for both MH and TF's companies, even though we did not get the chance to see what the full effect would have been.

 

Kudos to AJ for sticking to the job of turning MH around, even though he is seen as a TF appointee....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes I think this is a very interesting topic and I thank all for for there comments and hope more will share their opinion.

 

I would actually like MAS to succeed despite my current tone. I just find it so frustrating that they have made such a mess of things over the last couple of decades after having been arguably a top tier airline. I know a lot of it is government interference, but I just cant see how even the government clowns manipulating things got it so badly wrong.

 

Fact of the matter is MAS is now a middling (at best) carrier, however it operate in bearably one of the most competitive markets in the world. You have huge and expanding budget carriers on the low end and one of the most super premium airlines hubbed 185 miles down the road across a rather short bridge. Chinese airlines are also going to provide significant competition as they add capacity. CZ in particular now has a hard product (A380) which I would say if not surpassing MAS is on PAR with it. I would of course still say MAS has far superior service and there for is therefore offers a much more attractive package than CZ. However think how far the Chinese airlines have come in such a short time, it wont be long till they crack the service nut and then where will MAS be as they already often undercut MAS in price. Middling is just not good enough in that kind of a market. MAS simply must up their offering in their premium cabins if they want to hope to compete.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually how many of us will put money where our mouth is?

 

When deciding which airlines to fly with, how many will put more weight for our flag carrier despite their flaws, in the hope that one day they will regain their shine among the best?

 

Products and service enhancement will need money. No passengers mean no money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually how many of us will put money where our mouth is?

 

When deciding which airlines to fly with, how many will put more weight for our flag carrier despite their flaws, in the hope that one day they will regain their shine among the best?

 

Products and service enhancement will need money. No passengers mean no money.

 

I will. I've flown 44 segments on MH this year already :) Next one is to SYD next friday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The MAS problem is highly complex. It's an entire systemic flaw that engulfs the carrier and I believe it stems from it remaining a government run entity. You have to understand that MAS is living through the legacy of its previous CEOs who stripped away much of the 5-star features of the airline. To the credit of AJ, MAS has been improving and I think AJ has been putting in some amount of substantial efforts given his current assets. Of course, the next step would be to refurbish the B777.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been on MH's 737, A330 and 777, all in economy. Overall experience, I'm quite happy and glad that I don't have to fly with other carriers. I have flown with AF, QF and CX, MH still has the best food offering. IFE on A330 is really good, although CX and QF are slightly better.

Their soft product however can be very good or borderline bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually how many of us will put money where our mouth is?

 

When deciding which airlines to fly with, how many will put more weight for our flag carrier despite their flaws, in the hope that one day they will regain their shine among the best?

 

Products and service enhancement will need money. No passengers mean no money.

 

I would argue the opposite, you have to provide an attractive offering then passengers will come, not the other way around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was a self proclaimed MH loyal customer and paid a premium for MH tickets until their surcharge on Enrich redemption is more expensive than EK (promotional) fare. Since then, will only consider MH if the fare is the cheapest or out of necessity.


After abstaining from MH for over a year, was on MH EY and J class recently. MH EY meal is now more sumptuous (include cheese) than IJ's penny pinching school canteen era. However, MH's EY service level is still below par if compare with QR, TG, SQ or EY i.e. MH is
still omitting hot/cold towel, amenity kits, proper cutlery and drink service before/after meal.

 

On MH J class, while most if not all other peers are offering full flat on intercontinental, MH 772 is still angled lie flat. Whisky selection is limited to 12 years old rather than more commendable 18 years old. Headset is non noise cancelling type.


MH 772 is unlikely will be replaced within the next 3 to 5 years and is showing its age, MH should have refurbish the cabin to modern hardware. On outbound sector, the IFE was down and out for the entire 12 hours journey. On return sector, tv/movie went to start menu randomly but sound track remain for many times, took over 20 restart and fast forward to complete a single movie, and IFE system was reset 3 times.


As MH didn't recruit many cabin crews in recent years, most cabin crews are fairly senior, their service is impeccable and
is the only saving grace for MH.


Unless MH is to refurbish or replace 772, upgrade A33E J-class and increase seat pitch on 738, MH is only playing second fiddle to SQ, QR, EY, TG, etc.

Edited by KK Lee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would argue the opposite, you have to provide an attractive offering then passengers will come, not the other way around.

 

It's a chicken or egg thing.

 

They need need money to improve their offering. To get money, they need customers, but customers only come if their offerings are good. So where to go from here?

 

Anyway, fortunately for MH, there are still loyal customers.

 

These loyal customers, who fly with MH through thick and thin should be duly rewarded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a chicken or egg thing.

 

They need need money to improve their offering. To get money, they need customers, but customers only come if their offerings are good. So where to go from here?

 

Anyway, fortunately for MH, there are still loyal customers.

 

These loyal customers, who fly with MH through thick and thin should be duly rewarded.

 

These customers sound like they have the same relationship with MAS that one has with an abusive husband.... "he doest mean to hurt me he just loves me too much" j/k

 

Yes i do understand your quandary, but Im not sure its a valid point. MAS has just not prioritized its product at all, im not sure what exactly the money has been blown on but not hard product thats certain. The A330 and A380 they ordered were brand spanking new these planes especially the A330 could have been kitted out with a much better offering and I do not see how that could possibly have cost much more than the millions they were already spending. But they didnt do that so now they have a "new" product that is already behind the curve. As for the 772 again its resource allocation instead of spending money to paint the words "fire fly" on some 737's only to then paint them back MAS they should have prioritized refitting these tired planes.

 

Maybe MAS should adopt the model that US carriers have- giving complimentary upgrades to their most frequent flyers on short haul routes? I certainly dont see why anyone would ever pay for J class on a 737 short of using it as a connection after a long haul flight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These customers sound like they have the same relationship with MAS that one has with an abusive husband.... "he doest mean to hurt me he just loves me too much" j/k

 

Yes i do understand your quandary, but Im not sure its a valid point. MAS has just not prioritized its product at all, im not sure what exactly the money has been blown on but not hard product thats certain. The A330 and A380 they ordered were brand spanking new these planes especially the A330 could have been kitted out with a much better offering and I do not see how that could possibly have cost much more than the millions they were already spending. But they didnt do that so now they have a "new" product that is already behind the curve. As for the 772 again its resource allocation instead of spending money to paint the words "fire fly" on some 737's only to then paint them back MAS they should have prioritized refitting these tired planes.

 

Maybe MAS should adopt the model that US carriers have- giving complimentary upgrades to their most frequent flyers on short haul routes? I certainly dont see why anyone would ever pay for J class on a 737 short of using it as a connection after a long haul flight.

 

Complimentary upgrades for frequent flyers? That's a slippery slope - soon nobody'd pay for it because of the expectation it'd come free. Go to any gate podium in the US for AA/US/DL/UA - and you'll see upgrade priority lists. I've seen a zero load 100 hours out, and there'll be 50 people on the list fighting for 16 seats or so. When the flight closes, the domestic F cabin will almost invariably depart full... but nobody would have paid for it.

 

You'd be surprised about people paying for J on a 737 in these parts. They do. I'm not saying it'll always be high yield, because there are some specials going on all the time originating outside of KUL . If they ever adopted this system - i'm gone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will. I've flown 44 segments on MH this year already :) Next one is to SYD next friday.

I second that.

 

Hey Mohamed

 

Thanks for the information, I did not know the Australian info at all so thanks for sharing it. Does explain a fair bit, but doesnt that then point a bit toward poor fleet planning? I do also find it hard to believe they couldn't manage one daily A380 frequency within the current agreement?

 

Also I take your point about EK its a valid one though I would point out that they serve many more destinations with a full flat config than MH does.

It makes much more sense to offer a twice daily flight than to cut it down to once daily just so they can offer the A380 to SYD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...