Made in China - Attack Helicopter

[Cire 0]

wah... interesting facts.

Land declaration is all about a country's sovereignty, and the economic potentials of the piece of land.

[S V Choong 4]

Think deeper .... And wider still !

 

Perhaps rather than writing a one liner - you could perhaps show write more to demonstrate your breadth of thinking, which I would be very interested to read?

Edited November 17, 2012 by S V Choong

[Cheng Long 0]

 

That would be Chinese language newspapers I would imagine.

 

English newspapers actually. The star and nst.

 

I guess Chinese media will be even more vocal in support of china.

 

The Americans are actually sitting on the fence. They acknowledge there are land disputes but don't side either party lest they hurt ties.

[amanairways 0]

 

 

English newspapers actually. The star and nst.

 

I guess Chinese media will be even more vocal in support of china.

 

The Americans are actually sitting on the fence. They acknowledge there are land disputes but don't side either party lest they hurt ties.

 

Pls don't talk about the USA and land territories .... Think new Amsterdam , Hawaii , Mariana islands , Guam .....heck the entire USA !!

[S V Choong 4]

The Americans are actually sitting on the fence. They acknowledge there are land disputes but don't side either party lest they hurt ties.

You think too highly of the Americans I am afraid. They are just waiting to see what benefit they can gain from the dispute and anyone they help they will come up with some stories with high moral ground to convince people and people who subscribed to western media.

 

They are saying they are not helping Japan but they have conducted many military and naval exercise with Japan. The Japanese are actually paying the Americans to protect them and stationed in Japan.

 

Basically the Japanese is trying to get the US to side them. They thought they can legitimize these islands because the US assigned them the administrative rights. Wishful thinking! S. Korea on the other hand was quick to respond by occupying Tok do island. They can do it because they are both allies of the US. It is harder for China, however.

 

Regarding territorial dispute. Don't need to look far, just look at Malaysia. Malaysia was daring enough to go to court with Indonesia about Sipadan island and that Malaysia had won the sovereignty. Malaysia howevre is not daring enough to go to the court with the Philippines in regards to Sabah's sovereignty. The Philippines has requested Malaysia to go to court with them several times but instead Malaysia has been dodging It. Instead they still pay rent to the Philiippines every year. Essentially Malaysia has administrative rights over Sabah but sovereignty is still under dispute and has not yet been determined. It is actually more complicated than simply just saying lets respect the status quo and neglect the rest.

 

It is going to be very interesting because both Japan and US economy is on the decline and money god is currently with China.

Edited November 17, 2012 by S V Choong

[S V Choong 4]

 

 

Pls don't talk about the USA and land territories .... Think new Amsterdam , Hawaii , Mariana islands , Guam .....heck the entire USA !!

 

In Hawaii, There has been noise about US colonization and that they want to part from the US albeit not strong enough.

[Cheng Long 0]

 

You think too highly of the Americans I am afraid. They are just waiting to see what benefit they can gain from the dispute and anyone they help they will come up with some stories with high moral ground to convince people and people who subscribed to western media.

 

They are saying they are not helping Japan but they have conducted many military and naval exercise with Japan. The Japanese are actually paying the Americans to protect them and stationed in Japan.

 

Basically the Japanese is trying to get the US to side them. They thought they can legitimize these islands because the US assigned them the administrative rights. Wishful thinking! S. Korea on the other hand was quick to respond by occupying Tok do island. They can do it because they are both allies of the US. It is harder for China, however.

 

Regarding territorial dispute. Don't need to look far, just look at Malaysia. Malaysia was daring enough to go to court with Indonesia about Sipadan island and that Malaysia had won the sovereignty. Malaysia howevre is not daring enough to go to the court with the Philippines in regards to Sabah's sovereignty.

 

Same view with me actually. I think the US not taking sides now as just hedging bets who will be more useful to them.

 

yea there was a person who claimed to be descendent of sulu kingdom or something and demanded Sabah returned to him. Most people however, including sabahans and philiphinos, think he is mad.

[Alif A. F. 0]

 

 

In Hawaii, There has been noise about US colonization and that they want to part from the US albeit not strong enough.

 

Hawaii was the only part of US which was actually used to be an internationally recognised independent kingdom, until a coup by a group of American businessmen puts Hawaii under US control.

[BC Tam 2]

yea there was a person who claimed to be descendent of sulu kingdom or something and demanded Sabah returned to him. Most people however, including sabahans and philiphinos, think he is mad.

What, the same one who was dishing out 'datukship' to whoever for a fee ?

And who as a result proved beyond doubt that there is one born every minute ?

[Alif A. F. 0]

 

 

Same view with me actually. I think the US not taking sides now as just hedging bets who will be more useful to them.

 

yea there was a person who claimed to be descendent of sulu kingdom or something and demanded Sabah returned to him. Most people however, including sabahans and philiphinos, think he is mad.

 

As Sabahan and Malaysian I don't want Sabah to be returned to the so-called original owners be it Sulu Sultanate or Philippines. Call me overtly optimistic or old-school thinkers, but I think my state is better off under Malaysia.

 

OT too much already...

 

I can only think those attack helicopters would be placed on some aircraft carriers and be brought to South China Sea.

[Waiping 12]

Yup, from made-in-China attack chopper, to Diaoyu, to Hawaii with no sign of returning.

 

China's aircraft carrier and attack chopper are still very "immature" technologically, even spec wise. Probably no match to firepower possessed by either USS Bonhomme Richard or USS Makin Island that had stopped by Sabah this year.

[flee 5]

It would be very interesting if someone started a China Wikileaks. That way, we can see the real stuff going on in China - just like we got a lot to thank Wikileaks for now...

[BC Tam 2]

China's aircraft carrier and attack chopper are still very "immature" technologically, even spec wise. Probably no match to firepower possessed by either USS Bonhomme Richard or USS Makin Island that had stopped by Sabah this year.

Unlike the cold war era (US vs USSR) when military hardware oneupmanship was of paramount advantage, I will opine that economic interests between opposing sides (US vs PRC) plays a bigger role nowadays. The PRC holds at least one of the Yank's balls in her clutches by way of bonds and foreign investments, whilst Uncle Sam knows full well that the Chinese will likely to be brought down to her knees if the American consumer is denied access to Chinese products

It's probably one big complicated game of chess out there

(incidentally, wondered why the sudden appearances of some very high ranking Chinese officials into Sabah recently along with the two USS vessels ?)

 

It would be very interesting if someone started a China Wikileaks

Likely someone going by name of Yuh Liang or Ah Sang I guess

[amanairways 0]

 

 

Perhaps rather than writing a one liner - you could perhaps show write more to demonstrate your breadth of thinking, which I would be very interested to read?

 

Nah !

 

( Besides still recovering from a scoot and firefly flight .... Not that it was bad ... I must add..)

[KK Lee 5]

Whatever the game the Chinese govt is playing, they are not stupid bunch of people. The Japanese on the other hand are known to have played dirty tricks in the past, ranging from denial of invasion which cause Asian the sufferage, comfort women issue, white wash of history and denial of Nanjing Massacre. Today, they seemed like angels and portray themselves as victims of WW2. There are still people in the Japanese political scene which are known as the Right Wing politicians who believe in what it was taught durin world war. This include fascism, believing the Emperor is the Godly figure and they are ready to sacrifice for the country. These right wingers are the equivalent of neo-Nazi of Japan.

 

What about Cultural revolution? Millions of people died in cultural revolution.

 

 

Centuries old territorial dispute cannot be resolved by contemporary understanding of international laws and economies. There are many factors and interests that determines whose territory it belongs to. Hence reference to history and complete understanding of the situation is required. Rather than just resting on personal interests. If you guys don't learn to accomodate the rise of China, I am afraid the years and decades ahead is going to get thougher.

 

 

Given Chinese history of war with neighbours (Russia, Korea, Vietnam, India), short of natural resources and expanding PLA, the rise of China is more of a threat to regional peace.

[S V Choong 4]

It would be very interesting if someone started a China Wikileaks. That way, we can see the real stuff going on in China - just like we got a lot to thank Wikileaks for now...

 

The majority of the people in the West still believe in their governments and wikileaks is only read by a handful of people. Even Australian government is abandoning him and not giving him access to consular protection, quite possibly due to US pressure.

[S V Choong 4]

What about Cultural revolution? Millions of people died in cultural revolution.

 

Where did you get your numbers from? Nobody knew exactly how much except too much. Last I read was millions were persecuted, abused, humiliated and deaths. Even my mainland Chinese friends thinks million of death is an exaggeration.

 

A university of Hawaii professor has estimated the Japanese to have killed 10 million of which 6 million is Chinese, Indonesian, Filippino and etc. this include ethnic Chinese in South East Asia.

 

Although I personally like Japan, but I must say they do not have any creditability when it comes to foreign policy and relationship. They have not done their duty at the conclusion of World War 2. Some Asian government are quick to forget, because they are dying for Japanese investment.

 

Given Chinese history of war with neighbours (Russia, Korea, Vietnam, India), short of natural resources and expanding PLA, the rise of China is more of a threat to regional peace.

 

Mr Lee, I think you need to be a bit fair minded and neutral. Border wars with other contries is not necessarily China's fault. You need to read up history from both sides and get an understanding of it. I have just proven to you that it was Japan who started this Diaoyu island drama... Why oh why is Japan engaging in dispute with Russia and Korea? Is it China's fault again?

 

There are many Chinese educated Malaysia who are now seeking opportunity in China, because their home country has failed them. Even Robert Kwouk has gained quite a bit from China. The rise of a country is actually a threat as well as opportunity depending how you see it. No black and white on this one sorry. Unless one country has nothing to offer or could not see a way out, then yes, it is a threat.

 

Like any politics in a country, I prefer a two or multi party system. For world police force, I prefer to have two police force to do constant check on each other. At the moment we only have one.

Edited November 17, 2012 by S V Choong

[amanairways 0]

 

 

The majority of the people in the West still believe in their governments and wikileaks is only read by a handful of people. Even Australian government is abandoning him and not giving him access to consular protection, quite possibly due to US pressure.

 

Exactly

 

In any case when lady gaga or for that matter Madonna starts supporting him , it's time to let him rot in his Ecuadorean bed sitter.

[KK Lee 5]

Where did you get your numbers from? Nobody knew exactly how much except too much. Last I read was millions were persecuted, abused, humiliated and deaths. Even my mainland Chinese friends thinks million of death is an exaggeration.

 

A university of Hawaii professor has estimated the Japanese to have killed 10 million of which 6 million is Chinese, Indonesian, Filippino and etc. this include ethnic Chinese in South East Asia.

 

 

Perhaps the same professor can enlighten you with the numbers. Otherwise;

 

Estimates by various scholars range from one-half to eight million. According to Rummel’s 1991 analysis of, the figure should be around 7.73 million (Rummel, 1991: 253). In the following year, however, Harvard scholar John K. Fairbank arrived at a rough estimate of around one million (Fairbank, 1992: 402). Several years later, Ding Shu, an overseas Chinese scholar, disagreed with Rummel’s conclusion by using diverse analyses, and estimated the figure to be around two to three million (Ding, 1999: 214). Recently, Andrew Walder and Su Yang contributed a much more detailed analysis of the death toll in China’s rural areas based upon statistics drawn from 1,500 Chinese county annals. In their estimate, “the number killed [was] between 750,000 and 1.5 million, with roughly equal numbers permanently injured” (Walder and Su, 2003). In a newly published biography of Mao Zedong by two UK authors, the estimated totality of death is discussed: “at least 3 million people died violent deaths and post-Mao leaders acknowledged that 100 million people, one-ninth of the entire population, suffered in one way or another” (Chang and Halliday, 2005: 547). Interestingly, the reporter of a Hong Kong-based political journal released the classified official statistics, according to which nearly two million Chinese were killed and another 125 million were either persecuted or “struggled against”(subjected to “struggle sessions”) as a result of the state-sponsored killings and atrocities committed during the Cultural Revolution (Cheng Min, 1996: 21-22). The average death toll based on the aforementioned six investigators’ figures is nearly 2.95 million. Considering that the Cultural Revolution took place in China during a period when it was not invaded by other states, the number of victims estimated above is extremely high.

 

http://www.massviolence.org/Chronology-of-Mass-Killings-during-the-Chinese-Cultural

 

 

Mr Lee, I think you need to be a bit fair minded and neutral. Border wars with other contries is not necessarily China's fault. You need to read up history from both sides and get an understanding of it. I have just proven to you that it was Japan who started this Diaoyu island drama... Why oh why is Japan engaging in dispute with Russia and Korea? Is it China's fault again?

 

However, Japan don't threaten to recover these islands with force.

 

 

There are many Chinese educated Malaysia who are now seeking opportunity in China, because their home country has failed them. Even Robert Kwouk has gained quite a bit from China. The rise of a country is actually a threat as well as opportunity depending how you see it. No black and white on this one sorry. Unless one country has nothing to offer or could not see a way out, then yes, it is a threat.

 

Like any politics in a country, I prefer a two or multi party system. For world police force, I prefer to have two police force to do constant check on each other. At the moment we only have one.

 

Exactly, that's why the region need another superpower to counter balance the rise of China.

Edited November 18, 2012 by KK Lee

[S V Choong 4]

Perhaps the same professor can enlighten you with the numbers. Otherwise;

 

http://www.massviolence.org/Chronology-of-Mass-Killings-during-the-Chinese-Cultural

One cannot discount the numbers are some what exaggerated. Even the Nanjing massacre number varies greatly. It all depends on who publish the numbers.

 

I think these are two different Subject. One is internal killings and the other one is foreign invasion. As far as foreign invasion and death toll is concern. Japan is the top student in Asia, who would deny this?

 

However, Japan don't threaten to recover these islands with force.

I wouldn't say this for sure, if I were you. They have not been pushed to the limit just yet. Japan is likely to be in a calm position until the US, their colonial master give them a green light. Plus why would they do it? They don't need to get their hands dirty, they can merely pay Uncle Sam to do the job. Just like they have paid Uncle Sam's troops to station in Japan.

 

The Chinese on the other hand has been relatively silent about these islands, until some Japanese right winger tried to claim it. As far as I am concern, nobody has ever use force yet. I don't predict what they will do. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

 

What is happening now is merely each other trying flexing their masculine lines to see who are more macho. Japan and the US have been conducting exercise of late. So what are these? The US is the biggest war monger of contemporary times.

 

Like BC said, they are so economically dependent on each other these days. It would be silly to start a war. The days of nuclear brinkmanship is gone for these countries anyway.

 

Lets go back to the basic.... What if someone tries to silently claim a piece of land owned by you, however small it is? Wouldn't it be a natural reaction to protest it? Or would you generously hand it over to others as suggested by you of what China should do?

 

Exactly, that's why the region need another superpower to counter balance the rise of China.

 

I thought it is pretty well known that the only superpower in the globe is clearly the US. Not the UK as many Malaysian thought. Their presence across the globe is felt since the conclusion of World War 2, including Asia. They have helped feeding many chickens around the globe. China is just a new kid on the block to challenge them. It is quite good to have each other checking on each other.

Edited November 18, 2012 by S V Choong

[KK Lee 5]

I think these are two different Subject. One is internal killings and the other one is foreign invasion. As far as foreign invasion and death toll is concern. Japan is the top student in Asia, who would deny this?

 

 

The first duty of ruler/gomen is to protect and defence the ruled/citizens. If a regime can scarified millions of her citizen for power consolidation, what mercy is there if their army conquered another country?

 

Lets go back to the basic.... What if someone tries to silently claim a piece of land owned by you, however small it is? Wouldn't it be a natural reaction to protest it? Or would you generously hand it over to others as suggested by you of what China should do?

 

I thought it is pretty well known that the only superpower in the globe is clearly the US. Not the UK as many Malaysian thought. Their presence across the globe is felt since the conclusion of World War 2, including Asia. They have helped feeding many chickens around the globe. China is just a new kid on the block to challenge them. It is quite good to have each other checking on each other.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-nPRhEapE0

 

 

China boundary/border changes with almost every dynasty, there could be hundred of excuses to dispute with every neighbour. Diaoyu may have oil and gas reserves, and China could survive and prosper without it. After WWII, most countries realised lasting peace could be achieve by accepting status quo and peaceful coexistence. By claiming Diaoyu aggressively, implying China intends to expand her territory. After Dioayu, what’s next? Resources rich Spratly, Siberia, Indonesia and Australia?

[S V Choong 4]

The first duty of ruler/gomen is to protect and defence the ruled/citizens. If a regime can scarified millions of her citizen for power consolidation, what mercy is there if their army conquered another country?

Well, in the perfect world this is the first thing should happen but IN PRACTICE is this so?

 

What happened during the cultural revolution was a different China. A China that had her door closed. It was to do with how Chairman Mao solidifying his rules which I won't go into details.

 

I don't know how well verse you are with Chinese and Japanese history. From the history you can pretty much tell, the Japanese and Chinese, though culturally similar, treats their people differently. This is shaped by their geographic locations.

- Japan is an island thus there is this islander mentality and tended to treat their own people well.

- China is a vast territory and is surrounded by many countries. They treat their own kind not that well. Heck, we can definitely see it in this thread

 

Foreign diplomacy is different. Killing people within your border is much easier than attacking another country. This include using massive funds and resources to topple a different country which if lost would mean serious repercussions. However, killing armless people within your border is arguably easy. Not implying that I support China's move in cultural revolution but it is just two different subject altogether, trying to put the same together is somewhat meaningless.

 

When Japan ransacked Asia, they certainly treated foreign subject badly. Torture is a Japanese thing, because of this Bushido spirit and training which one would become a saint like status if pushed or punished to the limit. It was the time when Japan trying to teach the rest of Asia how to be a proper westernised Japanese. Not sure how much interactions you have had with the Japanese, but they treat their own kind better. Heck they even export second rated products to foreign markets and kept the best ones back home. One can argue that scarificing millions of her citizen by equipping them and send them to war is an act of consolidating her own position in the world.

 

Throughout the human history, rulers have tried to suppress their opponents. The Romans have done it, the Mongolians, the former colonial powers (check British's internal security acts and their dirty business in India), the Americans, the Australian, the Cambodians and heck even the Dalai Lama himself have done it (if you read Tibetan history) etc. have done it. If you put an ignorant mask like many, in western country, who lack the knowledge of history. Yes, then China is the biggest bad ass because we, the 'westerners' have not done this kind of thing before. Big fat lie, I am afraid.

 

China boundary/border changes with almost every dynasty, there could be hundred of excuses to dispute with every neighbour. Diaoyu may have oil and gas reserves, and China could survive and prosper without it. After WWII, most countries realised lasting peace could be achieve by accepting status quo and peaceful coexistence. By claiming Diaoyu aggressively, implying China intends to expand her territory. After Dioayu, what’s next? Resources rich Spratly, Siberia, Indonesia and Australia?

As I said, I am not interested in any guessing game here. One can talk about it all day and all night trying to guess what their move is. As I said one is not guilty until they have done it.

 

It's a bit like the KLIA expansion plan proposed by Kisho Kurokawa.... before you know it the MAB masterplan came in with runways flying in all directions which later to be replaced by another parallel runway.

 

For the record, we knew that the USA have pursued their resource hunt on Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and so forth. This is why I keep saying, we need another superpower to keep them in checks.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-nPRhEapE0

 

Thanks but I have seen this territorial map in China a long time ago. I can pretty much show you the Roman Empire's expansion map as well, if keen.

 

Have you also seen the British Empire's map? It was once said "the sun never set at the British Empire".

Edited November 18, 2012 by S V Choong

[BC Tam 2]

The first duty of ruler/gomen is to protect and defence the ruled/citizens. If a regime can scarified millions of her citizen for power consolidation, .....

 

Something from closer home

 

Maria Chin detained by Sabah Immigration authorities

 

By Nomy Nozwir

 

November 17, 2012

 

Maria Chin (right) said her personal details were recorded before she was allowed to leave. — File pic

KUALA LUMPUR, Nov 17 — Bersih 2.0 leader Maria Chin Abdullah was held up again yesterday by airport authorities, this time by Sabah immigration officials who stopped to question her at the Kota Kinabalu International Airport (KKIA) after claiming that she had been “blacklisted” for unexplained reasons.

Maria Chin said several immigration officials approached her after she touched down in the airport at about 7.30pm last night before escorting her to a holding room and questioning her for some 20 minutes.

“When I asked why they were detaining me, one official said it was because I am not Sabahan,” she told The Malaysian Insider when contacted here.

read the rest here: http://www.themalays...on-authorities/

Edited November 19, 2012 by BC Tam

[KK Lee 5]

Well, in the perfect world this is the first thing should happen but IN PRACTICE is this so?

 

Could be the reason why most high ranking CPC officials sent or sending their child to study or stay in overseas?

 

 

What happened during the cultural revolution was a different China. A China that had her door closed. It was to do with how Chairman Mao solidifying his rules which I won't go into details.

 

Same regime is still in power.

 

 

As I said, I am not interested in any guessing game here. One can talk about it all day and all night trying to guess what their move is. As I said one is not guilty until they have done it.

 

It's a bit like the KLIA expansion plan proposed by Kisho Kurokawa.... before you know it the MAB masterplan came in with runways flying in all directions which later to be replaced by another parallel runway.

 

For the record, we knew that the USA have pursued their resource hunt on Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and so forth. This is why I keep saying, we need another superpower to keep them in checks.

 

When the Nazis came for the communists,

I remained silent;

I was not a communist.

 

When they locked up the social democrats,

I remained silent;

I was not a social democrat.

 

When they came for the trade unionists,

I did not speak out;

I was not a trade unionist.

 

When they came for the Jews,

I remained silent;

I wasn't a Jew.

 

When they came for me,

there was no one left to speak out.

 

 

Thanks but I have seen this territorial map in China a long time ago. I can pretty much show you the Roman Empire's expansion map as well, if keen.

 

Have you also seen the British Empire's map? It was once said "the sun never set at the British Empire".

 

Neither Italian or British is claiming any territory on historical ground.

Edited November 19, 2012 by KK Lee

[xtemujin 0]

Pentagon Contractor Caught Illegally Selling Military Technology to China

 

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/pentagon-contractor-caught-illegally-selling-military-technology-to-china/259469/