Malaysia orders 35 R-77 air-to-air missiles for Su-30 fleet

[flee 5]

Malaysia has placed an order for 35 Vympel R-77 RVV-AE air-to-air missiles with Russia's Rosboronexport arms agency.

 

The missile deal is worth Malaysian Ringgit (MYR) 106.4 million ($35 million), with the first missiles to be delivered by the end of 2012, says Rosboronexport in a statement.

 

The missiles will arm the Malaysian air force's Sukhoi Su-30 aircraft.

 

The R-77, referred to as the AA-12 Adder by NATO, is a medium range, active radar-guided missile similar to the Raytheon AIM-120 AMRAAM.

 

Source: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/malaysia-orders-35-r-77-air-to-air-missiles-for-su-30-fleet-370927/

[Naim 6]

US$1m per shot, awesome!

[Wilson Chai 2]

yayaya ... agreed !!!

[Lock SH 0]

This is nothing compare to the price of 4 x A400M, it was reported (in this forum) that Malaysian govt paid RM3.6 billion for the whole package.

 

Unbelieveable? BELIEVE IT !!!!........

 

 

 

[Kee Hooi Yen 0]

This is nothing compare to the price of 4 x A400M, it was reported (in this forum) that Malaysian govt paid RM3.6 billion for the whole package.

 

Unbelieveable? BELIEVE IT !!!!........

 

 

The price of A400M is equivalent to A380 list price ?

Edited April 20, 2012 by Kee Hooi Yen

[Waiping 12]

We have a tendency to buy at a much much higher price than market price.

[flee 5]

Of course - e.g. Malaysian highways cost more (per km) to construct than Singaporean highways.

 

RMAF's cost estimate for the Typhoon fighter is about 10 times that of the Luftwaffe's.

 

Etc. Etc. Etc.

[Timothy 1]

Of course - e.g. Malaysian highways cost more (per km) to construct than Singaporean highways.

 

RMAF's cost estimate for the Typhoon fighter is about 10 times that of the Luftwaffe's.

 

Etc. Etc. Etc.

 

Not a government apologist, but it has to be noted SG highways are built on proven ground unlike most of ours which have to cut through water logged land, hills and villages.

 

Less we forget, the Eurofighter is commissioned by Eurofighter GmbH, by default a German entity. At present, we've no idea how much the German & British (majority shareholders @ 33% each) have poured into this program. These governments will also want to profit, hence we cannot except a "fair" price for such an advanced fighter.

 

I am fully against money going into an undeserving pocket, but mostly I find criticism of our armed forces to be unfair.

[N Azman 0]

Not a government apologist, but comparing military systems and equipment with commercial equipment prices is a rather....daft thing to do.

 

Should do some research on how much more expensive military systems on board an aircraft (and other associated costs even on the fuselage like underbody reinforcements). I'll give you a hint - an A330 MRTT is easily 2.5 - 3x more expensive than an equivalent A330-200 P or F. Plus each mil spec aircraft is highly customisable to the point that the prices on equipment that may look the same to the average spotter - may differ by 10%-300%.

 

So unless someone in this forum has a detailed breakdown on what each of the systems cost, and its cost-benefit-analysis vis-a-vis a similar competing equipment - maybe the armchair political advisors banging tables about government spending should reserve their comments to malaysiakini or similar forums.

 

Back to topic then I think a competent AA missile is needed to complement the SU-30. (No use driving mercedes SLS on 13" rims innit?). But don't we already have the Amraamski which is bought together with the MiG-29? maybe some mil analysts here can shed some light on potential upgrades on this derivative

[BC Tam 2]

..... comparing military systems and equipment with commercial equipment prices is a rather....daft thing to do.

But in context of this thread's discussion, it will be rather difficult to name a commercial (read civilian ?) version of radar guided air to air missile to compare against the R-77 / AA-12

[N Azman 0]

But in context of this thread's discussion, it will be rather difficult to name a commercial (read civilian ?) version of radar guided air to air missile to compare against the R-77 / AA-12

 

Correct! so those saying "too cheap..." or "too expensive".... uhhhhh would love to know what's the 'right' price for a R-77/AA-12 missile and whether the comparisons have matching specs and systems

[KK Lee 5]

Not a government apologist, but it has to be noted SG highways are built on proven ground unlike most of ours which have to cut through water logged land, hills and villages.

 

Less we forget, the Eurofighter is commissioned by Eurofighter GmbH, by default a German entity. At present, we've no idea how much the German & British (majority shareholders @ 33% each) have poured into this program. These governments will also want to profit, hence we cannot except a "fair" price for such an advanced fighter.

 

I am fully against money going into an undeserving pocket, but mostly I find criticism of our armed forces to be unfair.

 

 

RMAF may not pay the same price for Typhoon as RAF or Luftwaffe but shouldn’t be paying a lot more than Austrian.

 

 

Believe most if not all MinDef major procurement are decided by either MinDef, PM or RM, with little actual input from armed forces. Criticisms are directed at those decision makers not armed forces.

 

Correct! so those saying "too cheap..." or "too expensive".... uhhhhh would love to know what's the 'right' price for a R-77/AA-12 missile and whether the comparisons have matching specs and systems

 

 

That’s why MinDef is the favourite ministry.

[BC Tam 2]

.....uhhhhh would love to know what's the 'right' price for a R-77/AA-12 missile and whether the comparisons have matching specs and systems

Should start comparison exercise with something more basic - eg price our armed forces are paying for a dressed chicken destined for the their kitchen vs price of a similarly dressed chicken offered for purchase at our local wet markets

[Waiping 12]

If you know the exact procurement procedure you should share.

[BC Tam 2]

Sharing "exact procurement procedure" - wow !

[Rob 0]

RMAF may not pay the same price for Typhoon as RAF or Luftwaffe but shouldn’t be paying a lot more than Austrian. Believe most if not all MinDef major procurement are decided by either MinDef, PM or RM, with little actual input from armed forces. Criticisms are directed at those decision makers not armed forces. That’s why MinDef is the favourite ministry.

 

Who's RM?

[Amirul Mazlan 0]

RM is PM's superior.

[Waiping 12]

RM is PM's superior.

 

[leon t 0]

ever wonder why when Malaysia buys submarines or military aircrafts - its generally through a 3rd party private company? Unlike in other countries and our neighbor's down south where such multi-billion purchases are on a govt-tog-vt or govt to direct military suppliers.

Edited April 26, 2012 by leon t

[Waiping 12]

ever wonder why when Malaysia buys submarines or military aircrafts - its generally through a 3rd party private company? Unlike in other countries and our neighbor's down south where such multi-billion purchases are on a govt-tog-vt or govt to direct military suppliers.

 

To create business opportunity for (selected) budding entrepreneurs.

[Cire 0]

Given the chance, the Military force would like to have more than what was offered to them. I am sure some of the procurement are purchased by armchair generals rather than the actual end user themselves.

 

I guess to use the country's monies to purchase some military equipment is much more beneficial than having the dough squandered away and nothing in return. Here, at least you have a piece of machinery to show, for what's it is worth anyway.

 

Whenever a question arises as to what is cheap and expensive of such military equipment, Mindef and the government would have one common answer - national secret, do not ask.

So, the end user may end up having a basic-plus aircraft although the monies forked out would have gotten a full package deal. Just hope that the government don't buy "half" the aircraft, and another half of the package cost is parked in the after-sales deal.

[Waiping 12]

The secret is it doesn't come with engine.

[Paul Saccani 0]

US$1m per shot, awesome!

 

Fairly typical prices, it has to be said. AIM-120 cost even more.

 

But it isn't the price per round. The deals include training, support equipment, including dummy rounds, training rounds, handling equipment, tools and so on. The incremental cost for more missiles should not be US$1 million each.

 

In terms of normal arms procurement around the world, it is not an unusual price, it doesn't suggest that someone is skimming.

 

Cheers!,

Paul

Edited April 26, 2012 by Paul Saccani

[BC Tam 2]

But it isn't the price per round. The deals include training, support equipment, including dummy rounds, training rounds, handling equipment, tools and so on. The incremental cost for more missiles should not be US$1 million each.

Nowhere does it say all those extra bits are included in the US$35M deal

Somehow I doubt the 35M will be the final bill at end of day

 

 

In terms of normal arms procurement around the world, it is not an unusual price, it doesn't suggest that someone is skimming.

Since we don't know what the final bill will look like, it's unappropriate to pass judgement yet

But going by past records, the scorpene episode in particular where rm540M 'commission' was paid on a rm3,680M deal (15%), you're spot on about there being no suggestion of "skimming"

However, the term 'deep level gouging' ........

[Raymund Yeoh 1]

Skimming can come in many different forms, versions and shapes........ .......