Garuda request for Fewer MAS flights

[Pieter C. 5]

anyways....it was Pieter who said that things were turning iffy between MH and KL...

so...would u like to elaborate, Pieter?

 

tell us more, please!

 

Now that MH is struggling for survival, they want a "better" piece of the cake, and wanna change the agreed-upon agreements (code-share) with KLM...the latter prefers the agreements as it is, but, frictions have come to surface (too bad, as cooperation has been excellent in the past)

 

 

. . . before that, it has to cast away patriotic and nationalistic baggage.  A proudly flying MAS with a significant foreign ownership is an stronger asset for Malaysia than one boasting 100% local ownership and struggling with debts that are carried by a government holding company (and indirectly paid for by millions of hardworking Malaysians - many of whom may not even realise they are doing so). 

 

Coudn't agree more with you here; moreover, join an Alliance (preferably SkyTeam) and drop the "boasting" of only wanna be a full-member....why not an associate member for the first two years and evolve into a full membership lateron (like MEA) ?

 

[Ruiz Razy 1]

I'm sure all of us agree on the urgency of an alliance for MH. But let's face an important truth. ......... look at Proton and VW. That is sort of scenario that will make the deal less interesting......without explaining further the politics of it.

 

p/s although VW has successfully turn around the fortunes of SKODA.

[Pieter C. 5]

p/s although VW has successfully turn around the fortunes of SKODA.

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as well as SEAT

[Keith T 2]

Point of clarification - Swiss's attempted entry into oneworld was by no means blocked by BA. It had already signed an MOU with BA (to get into ow u have to be sponsored by an existing member). However Swiss deemed that the amount it would have to pay to merge its FFP with BA Executive Club, a condition of the MOU, was too much and it decided to ask for a release from the MOU.

[Jamie H 0]

ONEWORLD!!

[kandiah k 0]

Now that MH is struggling for survival, they want a "better" piece of the cake, and wanna change the agreed-upon agreements (code-share) with KLM...the latter prefers the agreements as it is, but, frictions have come to surface (too bad, as cooperation has been excellent in the past)

Coudn't agree more with you here; moreover, join an Alliance (preferably SkyTeam) and drop the "boasting" of only wanna be a full-member....why not an associate member for the first two years and evolve into a full membership lateron (like MEA) ?

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That is sad and perhaps selfish on MH's side but they should maintain the good rapo they have with KL. So whats the likelihood now that MH may restart daily services into CDG ?

 

 

 

 

 

[Sandeep G 1]

apparently daily CDG flights are locked into the upcoming summer schedule..

 

MAS is acting too desperate.. the airline needs a longer timeframe to recoverym than just 2 years... at least 3 is needed in my opinion. If they can stretch that out, they wouldn't need to implement such drastic revenue-raising exercises.

 

Pieter, do you think all hope is lost on the codeshare and alliance plans with Skyteam??

 

Skyteam still outdoes Oneworld in my books and is a better rival to Star Alliance.

 

[Keith T 2]

ONEWORLD!!

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Hear hear!!

 

MH's membership of ow would mean an instant revival of my AAdvantage membership to oneworld sapphire level again. Would prefer emerald but I can only dream...

 

But I hope MH's fares out of MEL don't rise to oneworld levels too. :S

Edited January 23, 2006 by Keith T

[Adrian M 0]

1.  Qualiflyer.  This is an alliance seemingly spearheaded by loss-making and increasingly desperate Swissair.  Failing or perhaps unwilling to join one of the earlier alliances (perhaps due to nationalistic pride), it decided to assemble its own group of airline partners to form Qualiflyer.  Its mistake was to gather a similar bunch of airlines - all loss-making and desperate.  Hence you see Swissair with Sabena (now gone), Volare (now also gone), Air Liberte (now also gone), Crossair (bought over Swissair and eventually become what is now SWISS) . . .  in short, an "Alliance of Losers".  Such an alliance can only go one way - down.

My...sounding like Suze Orman aintcha?

 

Perhaps MAS should consider a merger with AirAsia - with the final product having a quality international and regional network and an LCC component serving specific types of destinations that are suited to LCC operation.

 

That way, it remains a Malaysian solution to a problem.

 

If MAS, AK and Gov with the same views in their head.

 

[Pieter C. 5]

Pieter, do you think all hope is lost on the codeshare and alliance plans with Skyteam??

 

no (codeshare is still valid with KLM on the KUL-AMS route and will be, even for the upcoming Summer schedules) and again no (on the alliance plans)...however other Asian carriers are restless (TG) and want to fill the gap of Skyteam's lacking South-East Asian carrier...

 

[Jamie H 0]

Hear hear!!

 

MH's membership of ow would mean an instant revival of my AAdvantage membership to oneworld sapphire level again. Would prefer emerald but I can only dream...

 

But I hope MH's fares out of MEL don't rise to oneworld levels too. :S

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hehe...big up to a fellow OW fan!!

 

MH in OW would mean Id have the best of all worlds in my books : BA/AA for transatlantic.....BA intraeurope and MH/CX/JL/BA (WHAT A DREAMTEAM!!) for Asian/Australian routes

 

and i dont give a toss of MH's souring relationship with KL or AF or Air Djibouti or Air Tanzania or Air Sulawesi....all i care about is, I want MH in Oneworld - no ifs, ands or buts!!

 

having said that.......OW is all about profits......and with MH's crippled-like-a-donkey financial position, i can only dream!!

Edited January 23, 2006 by Jamie H

[Keith T 2]

hehe...big up to a fellow OW fan!!

 

MH in OW would mean Id have the best of all worlds in my books : BA/AA for transatlantic.....BA intraeurope and MH/CX/JL/BA (WHAT A DREAMTEAM!!) for Asian/Australian routes

 

and i dont give a toss of MH's souring relationship with KL or AF or Air Djibouti or Air Tanzania or Air Sulawesi....all i care about is, I want MH in Oneworld - no ifs, ands or buts!!

 

having said that.......OW is all about profits......and with MH's crippled-like-a-donkey financial position, i can only dream!!

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Beware of the BA/AA transatlantic FFP agreement though - if you are a member of AAdvantage you will not earn miles flying BA for all London-USA vv routes, and vice versa for members of BA Exec Club. I have gotten around this by routing myself via Canada.

 

Just cause MH is in a financial crisis doesn't mean that all is lost. Malev Hungarian, a loss making carrier and impending member of ow, only had to sign an MOU with the alliance which involves a restructuring plan to bring the airline back to profitability. But that's probably because ow was desperate for a central/eastern european hub. What remains to be seen is whether ow feels the need to have a South East Asian member/hub.

Edited January 24, 2006 by Keith T

[Keith T 2]

no (codeshare is still valid with KLM on the KUL-AMS route and will be, even for the upcoming Summer schedules) and again no (on the alliance plans)...however other Asian carriers are restless (TG) and want to fill the gap of Skyteam's lacking South-East Asian carrier...

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Pieter, how substantial are the rumours of TG wanting to defect to ST? No offence but they offer a cheap yet good J class alternative on the Kangaroo route to SQ for Star Alliance pax and it'd be a shame to lose them to ST.

[Pieter C. 5]

Pieter, how substantial are the rumours of TG wanting to defect to ST?

 

Keith,

 

my contact within the airline, said it was quite serious: TG finds SQ too dominant in Asia......and, since ST has no major "connector" there, I can see TG's point !!!

[Keith T 2]

Keith,

 

my contact within the airline, said it was quite serious: TG finds SQ too dominant in Asia......and, since ST has no major "connector" there, I can see TG's point !!!

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Yikes, this is a good time for me to sample the new TG J then before they defect to ST and I can no longer pick up EQMs on them! That'd give SQ even more of a *A monopoly in MEL as far as the Australia-Europe routes are concerned, unless one is prepared to fly on OS's 763s or NZ via AKL and LAX.

 

I suppose for TG it would be a commercially sound decision as they'd be the sole South East Asian carrier. It would represent a huge move though as TG is one of the founding members of *A.

Edited January 24, 2006 by Keith T

[Jamie H 0]

Keith,

 

my contact within the airline, said it was quite serious: TG finds SQ too dominant in Asia......and, since ST has no major "connector" there, I can see TG's point !!!

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lol......this is such old news......lets rewind back to the late 90's: I seem to recall news of Kanok Abhiradee's(TG's current CEO) predecessor threatening to pull TG out of STAR if the board of members approved SQ's membership

 

if these round of rumours are in fact - factual, we've proven how shrewd and knieving the Frogs (in AF and generally) can be.......now we all know why they've stalled MH's inclusion into SKY....wait for TG to get out of STAR and lure them into SKY.......but lets get real and as much as I'm cringeing to admit it, TG with BKK as a homebase is a much more attractive proposition than MH with the 'slow-as-a-donkey-but-getting-there' growing KUL

 

 

 

[Jamie H 0]

Beware of the BA/AA transatlantic FFP agreement though - if you are a member of AAdvantage you will not earn miles flying BA for all London-USA vv routes, and vice versa for members of BA Exec Club. I have gotten around this by routing myself via Canada.

 

Just cause MH is in a financial crisis doesn't mean that all is lost. Malev Hungarian, a loss making carrier and impending member of ow, only had to sign an MOU with the alliance which involves a restructuring plan to bring the airline back to profitability. But that's probably because ow was desperate for a central/eastern european hub. What remains to be seen is whether ow feels the need to have a South East Asian member/hub.

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yeah i know......the BA/AA (non)partnership was much chastised upon by fellow European carriers......but I like having the option of flying either for transatlantic routes

 

Agree with u on Malev.....I guess the same can be said about Royal Jordanian- I mean where in the flaming hell did that come from??

 

With regards to your last point.....I think what remains to be seen will forever be unseen, seeing that CX is in some ppl's books considered a South-East Asian carrier, and QF/BA already have established hubs in SIN/BKK.......we can only continue pondering......unless the rumours of CX pulling out of OW is true lol - i shant dig a deeper hole

 

Just a personal preference : I would much rather have the options of flying MH/JL/CX/BA/QF on Australasian routes rather than the following list : MH/AF/KL/KE...no offence to SKY fans, just my opinion

Edited January 24, 2006 by Jamie H

[Keith T 2]

yeah i know......the BA/AA (non)partnership was much chastised upon by fellow European carriers......but I like having the option of flying either for transatlantic routes

 

Agree with u on Malev.....I guess the same can be said about Royal Jordanian- I mean where in the flaming hell did that come from??

 

With regards to your last point.....I think what remains to be seen will forever be unseen, seeing that CX is in some ppl's books considered a South-East Asian carrier, and QF/BA already have established hubs in SIN/BKK.......we can only continue pondering......unless the rumours of CX pulling out of OW is true lol - i shant dig a deeper hole

 

Just a personal preference : I would much rather have the options of flying MH/JL/CX/BA/QF on Australasian routes rather than the following list : MH/AF/KL/KE...no offence to SKY fans, just my opinion

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RJ is actually a very decent carrier and was the only ME airline which was considered a complement to oneworld rather than a threat, unlike the likes of QR and EK.

 

The BA/AA transatlantic agreement actually represents a huge headache for many frequent flyer mileage junkies like myself. The AAdvantage program is far superior to BA Executive Club in terms of gaining oneworld status, but BA offers a much better product across the pond. I'm on AAdvantage myself and often have to fly BA via YVR to get to destinations in the US. But hey...more miles that way.

 

Totally agree with you regarding MH/JL/CX/BA/QF (although JL isn't officially a member yet) vs MH/AF/KL/KE - sorry Pieter!

Now if only we could have SQ/MH/JL/CX/BA/QF.....

Edited January 25, 2006 by Keith T

[Jamie H 0]

RJ is actually a very decent carrier and was the only ME airline which was considered a complement to oneworld rather than a threat, unlike the likes of QR and EK.

 

The BA/AA transatlantic agreement actually represents a huge headache for many frequent flyer mileage junkies like myself. The AAdvantage program is far superior to BA  Executive Club in terms of gaining oneworld status, but BA offers a much better product across the pond. I'm on AAdvantage myself and often have to fly BA via YVR to get to destinations in the US. But hey...more miles that way.

 

Totally agree with you regarding MH/JL/CX/BA/QF (although JL isn't officially a member yet) vs MH/AF/KL/KE - sorry Pieter!

Now if only we could have SQ/MH/JL/CX/BA/QF.....

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Keith,

 

Can u enlighten me as to why do u have to go through YVR to get to the states? Do u fly BA to YVR then switch to AA to gain miles?

[Keith T 2]

Keith,

 

Can u enlighten me as to why do u have to go through YVR to get to the states? Do u fly BA to YVR then switch to AA to gain miles?

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U got that. I refuse to fly AA for anything longer than a flight within North America. I mean, BA Club World vs AA's J product... On the other hand I'm with AAdvantage, one of the most fantabulously (ok I made that word up) generous schemes around, so I have to fly to YVR to get around the mileage blackhole for LHR-USA flights on BA, and connect to an AA flight to wherever I wanna go to in the US.

Edited January 27, 2006 by Keith T