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Sandeep G

Garuda request for Fewer MAS flights

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The NST Business Times today (18th Jan) reported that Garuda's GM for Malaysia, Ryanto has requested that MAS reduce some of its daily frequencies to Indonesia.. The request was for MAS to cut one of its "Three-daily" services into Jakarta, and also reduce its present frequency of 11 flights weekly to Surabaya to a more "reasonable" number.

 

He does not deny that MAS experiences good loads on all its services, but mentions that MAS has the upper-hand in terms of passenger capacity with the aircraft utilised on the sector - namley the A330 (and occasionaly the 777). Garuda only sends a B734 ONCE A DAY between Jakarta and KL.

 

The reason cited for the request is "too many airlines" plying between Jakarta and KL. KLM, Lion, AirAsia, Yemenia, Emirates, and last time Qatari.

 

Such a request seems a little far-fetched.. if Garuda can't use larger aircraft between KL and Jakarta, then they should relook at their current capacities on other sectors if they feel the KL sector could be more profitable.. They are experiencing good loads between 65 and 70% on the sector, but it is my opinion that they can improve this by offering more services during the day with perhaps some larger aircraft like the A330?!?

 

The GM did mention that GA is planning to mount services from Jakarta to Bangkok, Jeddah, Beijing, Guangzhou, Shanghai, Delhi and Chennai via KL in the future, but explains further that such may not be feasible this year due only to a lack of aircraft.

 

But I got thinking, and such a request is just beyond the general rules of corporate competitiveness in the globalised world of today.. Why would GA make such a bold request? could it be that behind the scences someone has mooted the merger between GA and MAS??? Such would be beneficial to both airlines and particularly Malaysia in my opinion. GA could use the expertise of MAS for engineering practice and pilot training. Also, MAS would benefit from greater access to the indonesian market, thus bypassing both countries major competitor SIA. Count the number of flights between Singapore and Jakarta.. GA and SQ have an insane number of flights between the countries, with SIA profiting on Indonesians travelling to europe, USA, East asia and EVEN Australia.

 

Perhaps both airlines could collaborately remodel their domestic operations to compete with AirAsia?? It would enhance operational efficiency.. provide greater and much needed capacity to Australia. For example,. GA flight numbers on flights to Australia from KL (for European travelling pax) and MH codeshares on flights to Australia from Jakarta and Bali? MAS has trouble finding additional slots in Australia, this could be the answer?! Maybe even MAS flying through Jakarta onto Australia??!! Who knows! The possibilities are endless and it could be very exciting!

 

But then again, corruption on both sides is high.. who will profit, who will end up losing? I dunno.. i'm just thinking.. What do you guys think?

 

 

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I think MH already has code shares with GA on the route.

 

But this is not going to stop MH, as they are in their downfall now,

 

so noting that its a profit, they may even increase its frequencies there.

 

 

It is high time GA started using larger aircrafts and increasing their mere once daily flight to KUL. Last WED, I saw a GA B747 in KUL on the afternoon round which is usually operated by a B734.

 

They are deploying more larger aircrafts to SIN and other ports.

 

 

tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif

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MW members.

 

This is totally nonesense. I apologise if I offended anyone here. But I think Indonesians authorities are one of the most unfair in the aviation trade. I am not trying to side any airline here, but remember that they stopped some budget airlines operating into Jakarta from Singapore?

 

MH operates three daily flights to Jakarta using A330. We in SQ operates no less than 7 daily flights into CGK using B777 (200/300) and more often than not all packed like sardines. How come never ask Singapore to reduce frequency? Sounds fishy? Is it because Garuda is one of the largest foregin airlines operating in Changi? Food for thought yeah.

 

GARUDA = Good And Reliable Under Dutch Administration

 

Regards,

Leech

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GARUDA = Good And Reliable Under Dutch Administration

 

25465[/snapback]

 

 

Thats funny, the thing you have just come up with Lee !!!

 

 

tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif

 

 

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This is totally nonesense. I apologise if I offended anyone here. But I think Indonesians authorities are one of the most unfair in the aviation trade. I am not trying to side any airline here, but remember that they stopped some budget airlines operating into Jakarta from Singapore?

 

MH operates three daily flights to Jakarta using A330. We in SQ operates no less than 7 daily flights into CGK using B777 (200/300) and more often than not all packed like sardines. How come never ask Singapore to reduce frequency? Sounds fishy? Is it because Garuda is one of the largest foregin airlines operating in Changi? Food for thought yeah.

 

GARUDA = Good And Reliable Under Dutch Administration

 

Regards,

Leech

25465[/snapback]

 

The Singaporean Authorities have also been denying Indonesia Air Asia the right to operate into SIN.

 

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In that case I think what goes around comes around. On another note I am quite interested to see how the SQ saga of operation to LAX out of SYD will developed.

 

LeeCH

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In that case I think what goes around comes around. On another note I am quite interested to see how the SQ saga of operation to LAX out of SYD will developed.

 

LeeCH

25476[/snapback]

 

Have to agree with you. Like yourself I am keen to see how SQ's bid to offer transpacific flights from Australia turns out to be. More Australian stops for you perhaps if it does come through.

 

 

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We in SQ operates no less than 7 daily flights into CGK using B777 (200/300) and more often than not all packed like sardines.

 

Thought SQ sends their A345 there for training purpose as well?

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I dont think that it is fair and right to get the main operating carriers to get into such mess / request. (GA and MH). I would imagine it's the 5th freedom 3rd carriers that should be limited i.e. EK,QR,KL.....etc.

 

Look at say LHR - CDG, SYD - MEL, LHR - JFK or LHR - AMS. Other third carriers may operate but with limited / no rights at all.

 

That's how LHR - JFK would not be given out to other carriers easily. Exceptions may be allowed for carriers that "offer below the main carriers sevices". This is one of the reasons why we will never see MH/SQ/EK operating such route but BG/AI/KU maybe.

 

After all, I thought KUL - CGK is a codeshare GA/MH. Otherwise... improve further by doing a shuttle arrangements like KUL - SIN.

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I dont think that it is fair and right to get the main operating carriers to get into such mess / request. (GA and MH). I would imagine it's the 5th freedom 3rd carriers that should be limited i.e. EK,QR,KL.....etc.

 

Look at say LHR - CDG, SYD - MEL, LHR - JFK or LHR - AMS. Other third carriers may operate but with limited / no rights at all.

 

That's how LHR - JFK would not be given out to other carriers easily. Exceptions may be allowed for carriers that "offer below the main carriers sevices". This is one of the reasons why we will never see MH/SQ/EK operating such route but BG/AI/KU maybe.

 

After all, I thought KUL - CGK is a codeshare GA/MH. Otherwise... improve further by doing a shuttle arrangements like KUL - SIN.

25489[/snapback]

 

AFAIK CX has rights to operate LHR-JFK vv. Rights were granted in exchange for VS to fly HKG-SYD.

 

All of these confirm that the airline industry is a market distorted by government intervention, either directly or indirectly.

Edited by Keith T

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We in SQ operates no less than 7 daily flights into CGK using B777 (200/300) and more often than not all packed like sardines.

 

Thought SQ sends their A345 there for training purpose as well?

25483[/snapback]

 

Yeap there's a daily SQ SIN-CGK vv flight operated by the 345 to keep crews' logs updated.

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Sometimes the CGK flights on the A345 gets cancelled and changed to a 777 flight instead due to shortage of aircraft and the need to do ground maintenance works. And this is one we get called up on our standby duties. So far I have not been called up for any standby periods yet.

 

Yes, and the reason for the A345 sent to CGK is to get the crew (both cockpit and cabin side) updated on currency issues (especially the F/O as I hear they sometimes have to get into the simulator to maintain their license).

 

I am very eager to fly Airbus planes because of the technological advancements but the lack of hand flying and dealing with 15 hours or 18 hours non stop flights is no laughing matter my friends. I am quite happy to do SIN-KUL sectors on a 40 mintue sector. smile.gif

 

As for the most probably aircraft type to do the SYD-LAX/SFO flights, rumours are that the A380 will handle that. But in the aviation industry never believe rumours yah. And do not speculate too.

 

LeeCH

 

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Look at say LHR - CDG, SYD - MEL, LHR - JFK or LHR - AMS. Other third carriers may operate but with limited / no rights at all.

 

Any airline can operate LHR-AMS and v.v. as there is an open-air agreement between the UK and the NL...the fact, there are only KL/BA/BD on this route are slot-restrictions at LHR in fact preventing new airlines on the route...

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[in that case I think what goes around comes around. On another note I am quite interested to see how the SQ saga of operation to LAX out of SYD will developed.

LeeCH ].

.

I hope it will be a positive news so that way we can meet up in Sydney, hehe!

 

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Garuda has talked about replacing its hub in Singapore with KL. We have sort of seen that with the codeshare of flights between Malaysia and Europe between MAS and GA.

 

But Garuda must be insane if they think they can do it by only operating one service a day between Jakarta and KL! They need at least 3 flights per day! I would've imagined that with the present route restructuring, that MAS is going to ply more flights daily between Bangkok and KL and Jakarta and KL.

 

I have a feeling that at the recent heads of state meeting between Malaysia and Indonesia in Bukit Tinggi, that certain issues pertaining to aviation have been discussed between the two nations.

 

LeeCH, I see you point totally, however, Singapore places alot of protection on its own carriers. Temasek has not only it finger, but entire fist in all of Singapore's 4 airline companies... The difference is, SIA focused its self on the region first to attract local ASEAN countries to use SIA and thus Changi as their connection to the world... MAS has done it in a very roundabout way.. with focus on the immediate region only NOW becoming serious on their Agenda.

 

Even Thai Airways has not enough flights between Bangkok and Malaysia.. 3 flights per day between two key ASEAN cities?? thats a bit low don't you think? Well in Singapore they protect SIA, Tiger, JetStarValuair, SilkAir.. here in Malaysia, the govt has spoon fed MAS up until now, and protected them.. please not that MOST carriers operating into KUL do so in some sort of codeshare agreement with MAS?? Technically, MAS does not face any real competition for international sectors out of KUL.. yet the airline continues to lose money..

 

Politics, Greed and sheer stupidity is why KUL doesn't have more connections with our close neighbout of indonesia and other nations alike. I think it's time MAS rose to the occassion and caught hold of the region!

 

On SIA obtaining rights between East coast Australia and the USA.. i'm very sceptical.. The recent times have shown strain in relations between SIA and QFA.. we wait and see.

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hmmm interesting!

 

I thought I suspected there is something going on.... I think don't discount the possibility of MAS and GA MERGING! Acquisitions are nasty, so too are mergers, but they provide more leeway for these independant national carriers to operate... The advantage for GA and MH could be phenominal... MAS should consider this seriously before SIA or TG dominates the region even more! TIME TO BE PROACTIVE MAS!

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GA can get lost if they think they can't compete with MH. KUL, as sandeep said, was supposed to take over from SIN as GA's hub... this clearly has not happened. if they can't be bothered to operate bigger aircraft to KUL....then tough! life sucks...that's how it works.

 

on the other hand...if TG/LH/SQ buy stakes in GA... Malaysia would be in a worse position. KUL will be getting further and further away from BKK/SIN. Look at VS who were bought over by SQ.....bye bye direct flights to KUL.....bye bye codeshare even!

 

looking at our track record - we can't even keep ASEAN airlines in KUL......forget about the big guys....no one seems interested. whatever happened to AY, EI, S2 and all that...no news as yet!

 

and whats this nonsense about MH and KL's relationship turning sour, Pieter?? WTF are MH doing? at this rate, we would have to join syrianair, azerbaijan air, air djibouti and lao aviation in an alliance (don't worry...this alliance will still serve all SIX continents - unless MH pulls out of EZE!). forget about asking garuda once SQ/TG buys them... we are stuck with our pants down again...

Edited by Izanee

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"and whats this nonsense about MH and KL's relationship turning sour, Pieter?? WTF are MH doing? at this rate, we would have to join syrianair, azerbaijan air, air djibouti and lao aviation in an alliance (don't worry...this alliance will still serve all SIX continents - unless MH pulls out of EZE!). forget about asking garuda once SQ/TG buys them... we are stuck with our pants down again...

25601[/snapback]

 

 

That's a real good one Izanee, sarcasm to the max !!!

 

Anyhow, whats with KL and MH having a sour relationship ? I thought it was AF and MH ? What is going on ? Uncertainties are taking place for the Malaysian aviation currently, very unpredictable, nothing on Malaysia's side!!!!!

 

mellow.gif

 

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Correct me if I'm wrong, of all airlines operating between Malaysia and Indonesia, I think AK and it's associate QZ has the most number of flights between the 2 countries.

 

4X Daily between KUL and CGK

2X Daily between KUL and MES

2X Daily between KUL and SUB

2X Daily between KUL and DPS

1X Daily between KUL and BPN

1X Daily between KUL and BDO

1X Daily between KUL and PDG

1X Daily between KUL and SOC

3X Weekly between KUL and PKU

 

With at least 14X flights between Malaysia and Indonesia daily, that's quite impressive.

 

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this is a globalised world, with a globalised economy!

 

MH and GA HAVE TO COMPETE! And they can do so only by investing in themselves and ensuring corporate competence.

 

It is fiscal prowess that makes SQ so profitable..

c'mon lah guys, let's go bang on Idris' door and give him a hand..

 

A corporate merger between GA and MH would create a huge competitor to SQ and TG... I think MH should pursue this option... but guess what.. they are fiscally screwed... it all depends where GA wants to go in life..

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haha kandiah...glad u agree!

anyways....it was Pieter who said that things were turning iffy between MH and KL...

so...would u like to elaborate, Pieter? smile.gif

 

tell us more, please!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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In my opinion, MAS is probably still in a far better position than Garuda. Even with the sale of the MAS HQ Building and other assets (which hopefully include those hideous Botero paintings), MAS is still relatively asset-rich. MAS is domicile in a country which has a broad-based and thriving economy. MAS has far greater access to quality manpower.

 

Its MAS-sive woes basically is a function of corruption, mis-management and lack of strategic planning among others. As a result, it currently looks like a drowning person.

 

The last thing that a drowning person needs is a piece of GrAnite in the form of GA. This will certainly drag it down far faster. There are perhaps two lessons from Europe - both involving Swissair and its eventual form - that might be useful.

 

1. Qualiflyer. This is an alliance seemingly spearheaded by loss-making and increasingly desperate Swissair. Failing or perhaps unwilling to join one of the earlier alliances (perhaps due to nationalistic pride), it decided to assemble its own group of airline partners to form Qualiflyer. Its mistake was to gather a similar bunch of airlines - all loss-making and desperate. Hence you see Swissair with Sabena (now gone), Volare (now also gone), Air Liberte (now also gone), Crossair (bought over Swissair and eventually become what is now SWISS) . . . in short, an "Alliance of Losers". Such an alliance can only go one way - down.

 

2. SWISS. It is the one airline that would not be out of place singing "Nobody's Child". Its entry into oneworld was blocked by British Airways time and time again . . . and the only way out was eventually being bought over by Lufthansa (which of course only did so to gain valuable traffic rights from Zurich). This at least guarantees the survival of the SWISS branding and it now even is enroute to gaining Star Alliance membership.

 

So in short, MAS should be seeking to join an alliance of operationally and financially sound airlines. Buying equity in GA seems to be similar to going the way of Qualiflyer and might as well include Philippine Airlines, Lao Airlines. Myanma Airways (not MAI) etc. It seems to be a case of putting a multiplier effect on what is already a problem.

 

The alliance of AF and KL is a great lesson. KLM (the world's oldest airline) remains a proud brand and Air France gains efficiency from its acquisition of KLM . . . and both airlines are highly regarded everywhere in the world. Now MAS has to find its own "Air France" to move forward . . . before that, it has to cast away patriotic and nationalistic baggage. A proudly flying MAS with a significant foreign ownership is an stronger asset for Malaysia than one boasting 100% local ownership and struggling with debts that are carried by a government holding company (and indirectly paid for by millions of hardworking Malaysians - many of whom may not even realise they are doing so).

 

Perhaps MAS should consider a merger with AirAsia - with the final product having a quality international and regional network and an LCC component serving specific types of destinations that are suited to LCC operation.

 

That way, it remains a Malaysian solution to a problem.

 

KC Sim

 

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